Poll: Would you want this?

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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Rewards/the incentive for doing the content. And then there's also a possible concern for lore and so forth.

    Remember, this is something people are paying 15 dollars a month for. Warcraft 3, Skyrim, Spore... all of those were "buy once and go."

    You're trading time that you're paying for to sift through mountains of poorly made user-made content looking for one or two gems all for... no reward? Just the fun of doing it? You could be doing dungeons or raids or PvP or something that actually enhances your character in some way.


    I'm not doubting that some people would find that incentive enough, but for Blizzard to fundamentally overhaul their game engine and then support the downloads marketplace?

    These are custom games that have no bearing on lore. The reward/incentive is fun and to play with the community of other people who like to play too.

    All this is, is another avenue for players to enjoy themselves.

    And as for having to sift, there would be a cap on how many instances an account could host per month, so the cream would rise and abuse wouldn't be an issue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tracerz07 View Post
    No, this simply doesn't have place in an mmo. This could lead to cheese shit levels meant to drop tons of gear for 0 effort, could ruin prestigious things such as mounts/pets, could lead to abusing kill count achievements such as The 250k HK achievements. This is an mmo not a world creator nor sandbox game.

    The OP makes no mention of reward systems. It's not meant to be abused in such a way. It's all for fun. And this very MMO is created using a world editor, I'm just asking for all of us to be able to use it ourselves, too.



    Quote Originally Posted by FlanFran View Post
    Neverwinter does this,
    https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Foundry

    Most of it is crap/spam with the intent of fast xp.

    This won't be for xp, currency, or any other reward. And to reduce that crap/spam, there would be a limit on how many instances someone could create/host per month.

  2. #262
    Sad as it is, the vocal majority of players will not do any content that doesn't reward any significant boost to the character.

    On Beta Suramar didn't have any rewards and was just there to tell the story of the Nightfallen, but the feeback was that people WOULD NOT do if there wasn't anything worth, thus, they showered it with Ap.

    You don't even need to go far, just the comments saying there wasn't anything worth on the Micro Holidays or the Chromie Scenario speaks for the community.

    If Player-created content won't have rewards, players will not care and if they do offer rewards, they will be exploited.

    I want to be able to create dungeons and see what other people create, its something else to do instead of running the same dungeons with only the difficulty changing, do the same WQs and so on.
    Last edited by Darktbs; 2017-08-06 at 03:57 AM.

  3. #263
    Or you could just leave this as part of an RTS and leave wow as an MMO.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by ziggy3055 View Post
    Or you could just leave this as part of an RTS and leave wow as an MMO.
    Why? And what about this makes WoW not an MMO? This player-created content would be available to all of wow's MMO community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darktbs View Post
    Sad as it is, the vocal majority of players will not do any content that doesn't reward any significant boost to the character.

    On Beta Suramar didn't have any rewards and was just there to tell the story of the Nightfallen, but the feeback was that people WOULD NOT do if there wasn't anything worth, thus, they showered it with Ap.

    You don't even need to go far, just the comments saying there wasn't anything worth on the Micro Holidays or the Chromie Scenario speaks for the community.

    If Player-created content won't have rewards, players will not care and if they do offer rewards, they will be exploited.

    I want to be able to create dungeons and see what other people create, its something else to do instead of running the same dungeons with only the difficulty changing, do the same WQs and so on.
    Maybe, but maybe not.

    People do Pet Battles (negligible rewards), PvP skirmishes, World PvP (negligible rewards), Role play, Micro-holidays, and the like. Why would this be so different? Especially with its novelty and potential.

  5. #265
    It's funny, in the Starcraft 2 map editor someone made Starcraft as an MMO. It's also had 2 expansions so far. It has leveling, crafting, character leveling, raids, quests, dungeons, the works.

    And people play it, despite it being fully player content creation.

    It's also one of the most impressive and respected player created mods ever made in the history of Blizzard's map editor.

    Oh yeah, it even has a pre-rendered cinematic trailer.



    Last edited by Kul Tiras; 2017-08-06 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    It's funny, in the Starcraft 2 map editor someone made Starcraft as an MMO. It's also had 2 expansions so far. It has leveling, crafting, character leveling, raids, quests, dungeons, the works.

    "But you will have a ton of bad content and only a few good ones"

    I believe its worth to get 10 bad ones but a few fantastic ones.

    Wc3 still have a loyal fanbase that updates with new maps, models, textures, skins and much more, going as far to import wow models into them.

    The best part for me its the amazing ideas that players have but game dev either didn't think about it or never implemented for some reason.

    The best examples i can give:

    http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/62844/?
    A customizable ship that can set sail to fight other ships and search treasures, the ability to decide who makes part of the crew and good rewards.

    http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/54509/?
    A mod...that lets you play...with your other characters.I don't think i need to explain more.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Just as Blizzard gave their Warcraft 3 RTS players the "Warcraft III World Editor", so too should Blizzard give their World of Warcraft players a "WoW Instance Editor"!

    The Warcraft 3 World Editor essentially allows users to create and customize their own maps using the same technology Blizzard used to create Warcraft III's Campaign maps.

    This Editor literally gave rise to the MOBA genre, or what many of you may know as DOTA (Defense of the Ancients) and more popularly, League of Legends.

    Warcraft 3's Custom Games (using this very engine) were so immensely popular in its heyday. Thousands of different games sprang up, ranging from Mazes to MOBAs to Tower Defenses, all hosted by its very own players.

    With that said,

    What if players were given a version of the WoW engine to create their own content, inside their very own instances?

    What would it be like?

    A set instance that a player can load into, that leads to a 3rd-person user-friendly interface where players can build areas. A cross between Roller Coaster Tycoon and the Sims, as far as how the interface would interact when choosing what to put, and where. A vastly more modern, Blizzard-crafted WoW Custom-engine for its players to build WoW maps with. Smooth interactivity, that's easy to pick up but in depth where needed.


    Who knows what new content or game could spawn from the ingenuity and creativity of WoW's very own player-base!


    This could drastically extend WoW's life-span while simultaneously giving its players more available content than ever before! Unlimited possibilities for player-created custom games, on top of the normal content Blizzard churns out each patch/expansion!

    Any part of the game could be drawn into your ideas when creating your own instance. Look at everything that spawned from Warcraft III's Custom Editor. I think the same would happen for WoW. Say 2 Million of WoW's population gets in to it when it goes live and .1% of the games created really catch on and get played by that market. That's 2,000 different games!


    I put some thought into possible custom games that might arise in the various genres. Some are straight out of Warcraft III's Custom Games that I know I among many would start building.


    Things such as but not limited to:

    PvP could have Games like:

    "World PvP" Arena Maps - Players can copy a section of their favorite World PvP area and drop it into their own custom instance. You could play 50 straight Arena games from 50 different hosts and never play in an identical map. In the span of 20 minutes, you could have battled in Draenor, Northrend, and Outland. One game it's a section of Teldrassil, the next a section right out of Grizzly Hills, and after that it might be on a massive floating rock in Nagrand. This brings content from everywhere, front and center at the click of a button.

    "Super Power" Battlegrounds
    - Players can build maps with power-ups all over the map, changing a once normal Capture the Flag or King of the Hill into something much more. Even easier would be being able to place the power-ups onto existing maps like Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin. Think buffs like Alysrazor and Ji'kun's "Winged-Flight", Sha of Pride's "Power of the Titan's", Garrosh's "Hellsream's Warsong", Vaelstrasz's "Burning Adrenaline", and even Ahri'ok Dugru's "Sanguine Sphere" from The Iron Docks scattered about a Battleground. The buffs could even be set to have a random rotation that changes like the Boxes in Mario Kart at their spawn points. There could be buffs hovering in the air that requires a Slowfall mechanic, or maybe its over top of death areas like off the side of the bridge in the middle Eye of Storm, that requires a Life-grip to obtain and not die. Spit-balling here, but you get the idea.

    Sheep Tag Matches - It's a version of tag, except with the iconic Warcraft Sheep and Orc Wolf-riders. Cops and Robbers, Warcraft-style. The Sheeps were to run and hide, and build up their defenses to survive until the clock expired. Meanwhile, the Wolf-riders were to track the Sheep down, invade their fortresses and kill..er..."tag" the Sheep to capture them all before the clock expired. Sheep could break their captured brethren out by melee'ing their whisp forms that were confined to the middle area or "jail". These games were addicting, action packed, skillful, and great fun. Here's what it was like.




    Sporting Games:
    -Sports like Horde vs Alliance Football with the [Pig Skin].
    -Punt the Gnome would have similar mechanics to the [Puntable Marmot] with zone lengths for what each kick would score.
    -Murloc high-dive water-darts; you jump off a high ledge as a Murloc and aim for the bulls-eye on moving targets on the water below. Different Murlocs have different abilities to aid their descents.
    -Of course there'd be Underwater Naga Home Run Derby.
    -WoW Quidditch with the Flying Brooms of Hallow's End


    Artistry:
    -Artists of all skill levels could finally craft a slice of their idealistic zone or re-make parts of their old favorite zones. I'd definitely try and re-create the well of the Vale of the Eternal Blossoms.


    Aerial Combat:
    -A re-made Wintergrasp with the Aerial Combat like what was intended for WoTLK.
    -Maybe a King-of-the-Hill-styled Battleground with a finite Flight-Buff Ability each player has, and it's situated over top of an Asteroid-belt-like rock formation floating above Nagrand.


    Role-playing and Lore fun:

    -RP re-creations and enactments. Surely some guild out there wants to re-create Thrall's wedding and attend personally.

    -Re-enacting Lore that never happened in game? Sign me up!


    Mazes:

    Mazes were a huge staple of Warcraft III's Custom Games, and I think it's a game that could be equally as successful in this medium. This is what I'm talking about if you've never seen it.

    NPCs patrol at various intervals and rhythms that the Player has to avoid. One moment of contact to the NPCs, leaving the path, or other mechanics, and it's insta-death. There were also various gimmicks at play that a Player had to avoid as well, like Mortar Bombs, Fire, Poison, etc. They were intense, replay-able, and with loads of suspense and laughter. A game could last 30 seconds before everyone loses, or go on for a half hour or more as the team worked through it together, by reviving the ones who'd died by reaching check points throughout the map.



    There was mounted Mazes as well, called "Run Kitty Run"
    . Basically a team of Night Elves riding Nightsabers whose objective was to reach the middle of the map by traveling through many stretches of maze while dodging NPC-patrolled pathing. As you leveled up, you could train a few abilities to aid your attempts at making it further into the map. If you or your teammates were touched by any of the patrolling NPCs, insta-death. You had to run over their power circle their death left behind, to revive them on the spot. The randomness of the NPC pathing was what made it challenging. Check it out.



    Outside of these 2 types, players could just create the stereotypical 'maze' using the hedge or plant-life assets to create a giant labyrinth of Zangar Mushrooms or something of the like. There could be elite centaur that spawn at points throughout, that the 5 man group has to battle, all while they're being chased by a fire that starts in their wake as they start the maze. There could be incredible mazes built in this way, especially with how creative WoW's player-base is. A Maze like from the book, The Maze Runner.

    Tower Defense Games:

    From Wikipedia - "Tower defense is a sub-genre of real-time strategy video games, where the goal is to stop the enemies from reaching a specific point on the map by building a variety of different towers which shoot at them as they pass. Enemies and towers usually have varied abilities, costs, and upgrade prices. When an enemy is defeated, the player earns money or points, which are used to buy or upgrade towers, or upgrade the number of money or points that are earned, or even upgrade the rate at which they upgrade."



    They were a hit in Warcraft III's custom games as well.



    Racing:


    Drawing from the Darkmoon Faire racing assets would make this a seamless transition. Add in the Alysrazor game mechanics, as well as any other gimmick you want and you've got some awesome Racing tracks to be built. Run only, Ground Mount only, Flying Mount only, etc.

    -Races and Marathons: The Great Gnome Triathlon, just imagine that game hahaha.

    -Warcraft-Kart, using all the heroes of WoW and various mounts or vehicles.


    Platform-Jumping Puzzles:

    This one probably sports the highest creative ceiling. Scale this object, reach that height, make it from one side to the other, etc, etc.

    Nearly all objects in WoW can be climbed upon and when stacked or grouped or put near each other, can create some incredible climbing adventures. Throw in the new Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder techniques (vines etc), with the various architecture assets you could draw from, and you could create jumping puzzle maps of all difficulties.



    So essentially you'd run the editor, create whatever you wanted like the above suggestions, and then host it in some type of "Custom Game" area for players all over to join, play, and compete in your very own maps/games!


    You could be silly with it, make art with it, compete against others with it, or even role-play with it. It's all just for fun. I think if it's engaging enough, the players would use it for just that. The possibilities are endless.


    What do you think, could this be in the future for WoW?
    I don't feel like Blizzard would be good at handling this. Look at SC2. The editor is way better than WC3's but there's a reason people don't play the arcade nearly as much.

  8. #268
    No.

    Player Created Content is nice in some games, and genres, like Custom maps for Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3 (where Dota came from, etc). Stuff like Tower Defense, DOTA, Marine Wars, and others, are extremely fun as Arcade maps on those games, but have no place in an MMO, in particular a paid one like WoW. Some f2p mmos already have it to some extent, and it sucks.

    I expect some polish out of my World of Warcraft, and player created content is buggy, unbalanced, unpolished piles of poop, so NO, i rather we get 0 of it on Wow.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    I don't feel like Blizzard would be good at handling this. Look at SC2. The editor is way better than WC3's but there's a reason people don't play the arcade nearly as much.
    Well Blizzard does have over a decade of extra wisdom and technological advances to help them comparatively. A superior editor and with modern polish isn't outside the realm of possibilities, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    No.

    Player Created Content is nice in some games, and genres, like Custom maps for Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3 (where Dota came from, etc). Stuff like Tower Defense, DOTA, Marine Wars, and others, are extremely fun as Arcade maps on those games, but have no place in an MMO, in particular a paid one like WoW. Some f2p mmos already have it to some extent, and it sucks.

    I expect some polish out of my World of Warcraft, and player created content is buggy, unbalanced, unpolished piles of poop, so NO, i rather we get 0 of it on Wow.
    Well, you think it sucks. There are people that have chimed in here saying they enjoy it. This hypothetical is that this new player-created content isn't taking away from the normal expectation of content that Blizzard tries to deliver on themselves. This is just to augment choice of what a player can do in-game.

    Are you still opposed? And do you not believe any content could be created that you yourself might want to play? There's just no way?

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    What would need to be balanced in player-created content? Whatever Blizzard has balanced its classes to be, is what classes you'd find inside this content.

    And it very well could have been tens of thousands of games. Easily thousands of iterations by different people on thousands of games themselves. I have an old cache of WC3 Custom games and it's 300 different maps, and that was barely scratching the surface. I had but a fraction of all the ones I'd seen.

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    Plenty of custom game scenes had or have no reward systems and were still wildly popular. I know I'd be interested if the games or creations were quality enough.

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    Ah, I see. Can these dungeons be spam run, abused, or anything like that? Is there a cost for hosting/creating/participating in them? I do think that system would translate to WoW, I'm just not sure as to how Blizzard would decide what custom games would give loot and what wouldn't. That'd most likely separate the community between those who do it for rewards and those who do it for fun, and I can guess where everyone would go. That's why I think loot doesn't mix with my idea.

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    What doesn't seem appealing to you?
    The foundry dungeons can be runned over and over again , the loot you get doesnt mean its great , most of the time you get a green item or even white items at the end, the true rewards of those dungeons are the ranking (stars) you give to the creator , the more star you give him he gets diamonds(in game currency for minor rewards)there are foundry dungeons for soloers and groups . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTKs05YU2ao this for example was my favorite foundry dungeon ^^

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigrifid View Post
    The foundry dungeons can be runned over and over again , the loot you get doesnt mean its great , most of the time you get a green item or even white items at the end, the true rewards of those dungeons are the ranking (stars) you give to the creator , the more star you give him he gets diamonds(in game currency for minor rewards)there are foundry dungeons for soloers and groups . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTKs05YU2ao this for example was my favorite foundry dungeon ^^
    Interesting! I still think loot doesn't work with my idea although it's nice to see it can work. I really like that rating system though. Can that be abused?

  12. #272
    High Overlord FreshKamel's Avatar
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    No, WoW players have horrible taste.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by FreshKamel View Post
    No, WoW players have horrible taste.
    Wanna elaborate?

  14. #274
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    no, there's a real reason why players are mainly playing, and creators are mainly creating, the same reason why some people can't draw a decent house, and some others can paint mona lisa

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    no, there's a real reason why players are mainly playing, and creators are mainly creating, the same reason why some people can't draw a decent house, and some others can paint mona lisa
    You don't think any percentage of WoW's playerbase has the ability to create content that others would play? Like I said in my OP, if 2 mil people try it out and only .1% of the games catch on, that's still 2,000.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Interesting! I still think loot doesn't work with my idea although it's nice to see it can work. I really like that rating system though. Can that be abused?
    About the abuse i cant really tell :/ there is a probability of gaining huge amounts of diamonds , but that means you have made a good "dungeon" and people run it all the time .My point about foundry in wow isnt just "copying" it , blizz has always made good changes when they borrowed content from other games, im sure they could easily make it into something useful about wow players. ^^

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigrifid View Post
    About the abuse i cant really tell :/ there is a probability of gaining huge amounts of diamonds , but that means you have made a good "dungeon" and people run it all the time .My point about foundry in wow isnt just "copying" it , blizz has always made good changes when they borrowed content from other games, im sure they could easily make it into something useful about wow players. ^^
    Oh for sure. I have no doubt that if Blizzard were to try and do this, it'd have top-tier polish. If WC3 and SC2's editors are anything to go off of, a WoW one would be even better presumably.

  18. #278
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    You don't think any percentage of WoW's playerbase has the ability to create content that others would play? Like I said in my OP, if 2 mil people try it out and only .1% of the games catch on, that's still 2,000.
    no I don't think so, wow is a proper game not a sandbox, wow doesn't need millions of user made stuff soiling the game
    if blizzard wants to provide those tools, they must make a separate "game" or a separate f2p server meant for that with no progression
    all user made content is always clunky, fun sure thing, but blizzard's standard can't be applied by persons not working at blizzard, unaware of those
    I enjoy hacks and those kinds of things, but it's 110% of the time inferior content, doesn't mean not fun, but it's not creation, it's a re arranging of existing content, it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table, unlike what actual official content is supposed to bring

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    no I don't think so, wow is a proper game not a sandbox, wow doesn't need millions of user made stuff soiling the game
    if blizzard wants to provide those tools, they must make a separate "game" or a separate f2p server meant for that with no progression
    all user made content is always clunky, fun sure thing, but blizzard's standard can't be applied by persons not working at blizzard, unaware of those
    I enjoy hacks and those kinds of things, but it's 110% of the time inferior content, doesn't mean not fun, but it's not creation, it's a re arranging of existing content, it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table, unlike what actual official content is supposed to bring
    You're vastly underestimating WoW's playerbase if you think not even a small percent of them can make content others would want to play.

    "Millions of user made stuff soiling the game" -- This player-created content has absolutely no bearing on the normal game. This is instanced stuff, completely separate from the open world. It's something you'd manually request to join, like the custom group interface. And the bloat would not be bad, seeing as how there'd be a cap on how many instances you could host per month (I proposed three, which would keep it to a minimum).

    Historical precedent from Blizzard's previous IP (Warcraft 3) proves that player-created content is not "110% of the time inferior content". An entire genre (MOBA) spawned from Blizzard's very own community. Not to mention the various popular private servers with their own created content.

    I completely disagree with the opinion that it "doesn't bring anything valuable to the table". It could be revolutionary, if historical precedent and potential is anything to go off of.

  20. #280
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    You're vastly underestimating WoW's playerbase if you think not even a small percent of them can make content others would want to play.

    "Millions of user made stuff soiling the game" -- This player-created content has absolutely no bearing on the normal game. This is instanced stuff, completely separate from the open world. It's something you'd manually request to join, like the custom group interface. And the bloat would not be bad, seeing as how there'd be a cap on how many instances you could host per month (I proposed three, which would keep it to a minimum).

    Historical precedent from Blizzard's previous IP (Warcraft 3) proves that player-created content is not "110% of the time inferior content". An entire genre (MOBA) spawned from Blizzard's very own community. Not to mention the various popular private servers with their own created content.

    I completely disagree with the opinion that it "doesn't bring anything valuable to the table". It could be revolutionary, if historical precedent and potential is anything to go off of.
    games main value lies in the art it provides, only blizzard can make wow because they created it, players not working with blizzard will just re arrange existing material without creating anything valuable (I'm waiting for the playerbase to create the next zangar, or the next teldrassil theme). players can do fun clunky stuff but it's just a toy, it's not valuable to our heritage.
    and there's nothing to be proud of off spawning the MOBA genre imo. MOBA is the pinnacle of what divides two category of gamers, MOBA is centered around gameplay, and it screws the pleasure of exploration, discovery, adventure and collection, it's not meant to be enjoyed like a proper video game, MOBA are among the worst junk food you can find on the video game market

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