[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Kelato]

I understand how physics works, and how helpless a small person is when trying to match the strength of a big person.

But you don't have enough data to apply your physics with certainty.

[pateuvasiliu]

It does make sense. It was an innocent - it was his child. It wasn't men who chose to go into battle and fight. Men who chose to be soldiers.

You do realise they showed you in Episode 1 of this season that they aren't soldiers by choice, right? They're just common folk who were forced to join the army.

- - - Updated - - -

If you bend the knee she wont burn you

If we pull out of the Middle East ISIS won't attack us anymore either. That doesn't make us the bad guys. Daenerys is an invader.

[Deleted]

What was the point in burning the loot? The fight was already over when the dragon appeared. Surely that could have been used to raise an even bigger army.

But but it was so fun to break their spirit when it broke up in flames!!

[IIamaKing]

That was my least favorite part of the episode tbh. When did Arya suddenly become a sword master?

Umm from season one till present, She trained as a faceless man, Trained with the first sword of Bravos before that.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe I'm just forgetting but wasn't she training with a staff? I don't recall her doing sword training.

She was there for a few YEARS, we saw like an hour of her time there. I assume the Faceless men train in all forms of martial arts.

- - - Updated - - -

She didn't receive any sword training with the Faceless Men.

We did not see enough of her time there to make that comment. We viewed an hour or so of training at the House of Black and White, she was there for years.

[Kelato]

Do I need to have a degree in shit-tasting to know shit doesn't taste nice?

Sword fighting might be a little more intricate than eating shit. In the scene it looks more like Arya deflecting most of Brienne's blows and not blocking the full force of them. Also we have no information about the exact weights of the weapons. Sure, it might be complete bs but right now your are moving in Dunning-Kruger territory.

Anyone who has a working brain knows a child cannot parry the blows of an ogre. Definitely not using a toothpick.

Exaggerating doesn't help your case.

[IIamaKing]

What makes you think Brienne has ever fought that particular type of swordsmanship?

A very good point, she dances the dance of the Westerosi, hacking and slashing. She was not prepared to fight a water dancer.

- - - Updated - - -

In case you missed it, she actually lost sparring with Brienne sword to sword. It was only Arya coming in full assassin style with her dagger, in a simultaneous kill shot as Brienne was about to land her sword, that she "won."

In the first exchange of blows Arya had her sword in Brees face, The first exchange was a win for Arya.

[Kelato]

No idea what you're talking about.

If drogon swung his tail at Bronn and Bronn deflected it with a sword you'd say it is absurd. Arya fighting off Brienne's attacks is only slightly less so. Sorry if you can't see that.

Sure Your comparison is in the range of "How could he survive a shot with a pellet gun? If you shoot him with a Magnum he dies."

[Deleted]

HBO derpface when looking at how many viewers they have now

[Netherspark]

You really might be overestimating how long it takes to get good at something. Basically "boot camping" with a team of master fighters and assassins for as long as Arya did would indeed give someone a significant amount of skill. Especially for specific types of fighting and defeating "typical" swordsmen.

People are also glossing over how Arya spent all of her time practicing with the sword, even before she went to Bravos. And probably all of her time since returning training as well.

The scene may have been a little overdone, but it's not like she just suddenly learned how to use a sword in half a day.

Dunno man I don't think GRRM will write a scene where a 15 year old girl parries the greatsword of a very strong person using a toothpick.

Parrying a sword doesn't involve just outright blocking it, and Arya didn't do that. You deflect it. You redirect it. You obstruct it. You don't need to be stronger than your opponent for that. And it's not like Brienne (or any swordfighter) is putting all their strength behind a strike - that's called overcommitment, something that gets you killed.

Swordfighting isn't about absent-mindedly chopping your opponent as hard as you can.

[IIamaKing]

Dunno man I don't think GRRM will write a scene where a 15 year old girl parries the greatsword of a very strong person using a toothpick.

Needle*

10chairs

- - - Updated - - -

I understand how physics works, and how helpless a small person is when trying to match the strength of a big person.

Yeh Smaller faster guys NEVER beat bigger stronger guys, nope, Royce Gracie def always got rolled by all the guys bigger than him. /eyeroll

[Rhovanir]

Wondering that meself too how many troops Tarlys n Lannisters lost...but due to Randyll n his heir being present it's a game changer for them..

Jaimie wanted Bronn to convince the reluctant Reach peasants to give up their harvests, so there's a shitload of food left since Lannisters occupied their time on getting gold. So now Daenerys has the Reach n can now also feed the Unsullied while also holding the castle and the westlands. So that's two kingdoms besides Dragonstone she has, I don't know where Dorne stands but they'll probably throw in their lot with Daenerys since they want Lannister blood..

Dorne has these houses...

House Dayne, pro-Martell, led by Beric which is Arthur's father, must be pretty old..maybe he could carry weight?..
House Allyrion, led by some bastard
House Blackmont, no comment
House Qorgyle, pro-Martell
House Yronwood, trouble, with Martells gone, this is the most powerful house, what have they been up to?
House Manwoody, guard the pass so wouldn't trust them to move
House Uller (Ellaria Sand's house, loyal to Martell)


Shame Dorne was butchered by tv show into bad pussy sandsnakes n one cripple martell...

So Daenerys has potentially 3 kingdoms + Dragonstone, Reach Dorne Westlands
North, Vale, Riverlands are neutral
Stormlands irrelevant (unless Connington n Golden Company go there)
So Cersei only has Crownlands and Iron Islands, I'd say naval battles are unimportant now when players have made landfall...

Aegeon started with only crownlands, but had huuyyge dragons, what does Cersei have?..

I don't think it matters too much in the show, since it's more character based than real political potential based, but for the sake of conversation:

The North is neutral but has a pretty limited army. I mean most of it marched South, fought for a few good years, probably a lot of loyal/good men/commanders got massacred at the Red Wedding , then the remaining men marched North and had a mini civil war in the battle of the bastards. The North itself is pretty tired. It got boosted by adding some wildlings to it but those are at the war by now.

The Vale threw it's lot with the North so these two regions are a packaged deal. The knights (safe too assume bulk of forces, maybe some armored footmen as well) are in the North, but I would assume the Vale could marshal another army of footmen/peasants from whoever is left in the vale. There's probably some vale tribes there as well but they don't really care. Either way you have Jon commanding one veteran but tired northern army, a valemen army of knights and potentially another army from the Vale.

Cersei has the Crownlands + whatever goldcloaks are in King's Landing (not a lot of troops to be honest but worth mentioning).

There's still at least one Lannister army (they lost at Casterly Rock and the ambush but probably still have a large army, well equipped and experienced due to all the fighting. Probably pretty tired as well but not as bad as the North).

The Riverlands bore the blunt of the conflicts with most able-bodied men dead. Whatever are left are probably just garrisoning stuff. The Freys may be dead but they did have a decent enough force. If they didn't scatter to the winds, Cersei could get them as additional fodder. Everything else in the Riverlands is irrelevant I'd say.

The Greyjoys are probably all fleet no army at this point yet still a good ally to have.

The Stormlands are a bit weird in the show. On the one part most men died either on the Blackwater or in the North for Stannis. However, as far as I remember from the books, they were pretty hardy people themselves, and a decent region. So you would assume some fighting men could still be there, and it's unlikely they would follow a Targaryen. Even more so, if popetion was still there after Stannis died (or perhaps as early as his defeat on the Blackwater), you'd assume they were conscripted to boost the Lannister force (Tommen was after all Baratheon in name, and it's not like there are Baratheon's alive as far as the average Westerossi Joe is concerned). So maybe another bulk of troops from there for Cersei.

The Reach is probably united behing Tarly at this point. If Tarly is dead by now, well that just means the Reach is in chaos, with lords scrambling for favors. Most would probably join Daenerys, but without a liege lord to rally them back into an army, I'd doubt they would contribute much. The last liege lord they had was Olenna, now the rulling family is dead so it's a power grab. The army Olenna gathered was presumably defeated at Highgarden so there isn't a standing reach army now. If Tarly is still alive, pretty sure he could whip out support against Daenerys and her Dothraki. I doubt he is the only Reachlander that hates barbarians.

Same goes for the Martells in the show. The entire rulling family is dead. Even worse, there isn't any important faction leader around (like Daenerys who is in the Reach and her very presence could theoretically convince lords to join her). Plus with the whole Dornish are crazy thing going, I'd assume lords would fight for power in the region by now. Uniting them would take too much time I'd say. And the main reason why the Sandsnakes were going South was to get the Dornish army up and going in the first place.

Daenerys by herself has an Unsullied army in the west, and a Dothraki Horde somewhere in the Northeast Reach/South of King's Landing. Not a big force, but enough to win in open field. Quite frankly Cersei could still win as long as Daenerys doesn't get reinforcements. She could wipe the unsullied out somehow, then garner more lords to her side as Dany's Dothraki grow more restless in the wating game. AND if you could fend off the dragons for long enough.

However, in the show most of this doesn't matter. My guess is Cersei's side has the bigger army to make it look like she has a chance but she's hopelessly outgunned by Dragons at this point. Maybe you get lucky and kill one or two if Dany goes all out against the capital, but that leaves two angry ones left. After all this war, Westeros is spent. If Dany attacked with big dragons at the beginning of the War of the Five Kings, she would have lost. There were enough armies, good commanders and enough morale to put up a fight. Now, she just has to not screw stuff up and not die. Difficult for Dany? Maybe. But odds are in her favor.

[stomination]

You really might be overestimating how long it takes to get good at something. Basically "boot camping" with a team of master fighters and assassins for as long as Arya did would indeed give someone a significant amount of skill. Especially for specific types of fighting and defeating "typical" swordsmen.

The real world analogy there would basically be someone going and training with a team of MMA grappling/BJJ masters for a year and then fighting a skilled boxer. Just the differences in style alone would be a significant factor.

We dont know the exact amount of time she was there. The tv show likes to skip a lot of parts and make things appear faster and sooner so the boring stuff isnt being done.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Except "Bran" is 3eydRvn n lets not assume he gives two shits about the Starks. A family he had to wait for centuries in a cave while roots grew through him..

But he is probably above westerosi petty squables n only reason he bothered to come to Winterfell is the tree n Jon's part in the war tto come. Looking like Bran earned him ticket to be near those. He might see LF as important, knights of the Vale made it possible for 3eydRvn to be there with tree n jon. Boltons would have made that difficult..

Had he crossed the wall too early the boltons would have chased him down n loyal lords might have followed "Bran" but wouldn't be inspired like they were with jon getting a rezz.

I want to see wildlings reaction to 3eydRvn, they believe in that figure n won't see Bran.

With white walkers going south-east en masse, the lands of always winter will be undefended? It's an opportunity to sneaky sneaky see what they could be hiding there. Might be reason why 3eydRvn wants to talk to jon and not "ur destiny is some targaryen incest seksi times!"



10/10



Hearts n minds...remember what Jaimie said to Euron about the people's praise..two-faced cunts they are...

"Be a Dragon!" said Olenna Tyrell. I'd rather listen to her than anyone else tbh..

The with the amount of chaos Lf causes its important to get rid of him, Brann knows the kind of man he is, even if he only care about winning the war he cant leave him alive.

- - - Updated - - -

You really might be overestimating how long it takes to get good at something. Basically "boot camping" with a team of master fighters and assassins for as long as Arya did would indeed give someone a significant amount of skill. Especially for specific types of fighting and defeating "typical" swordsmen.

The real world analogy there would basically be someone going and training with a team of MMA grappling/BJJ masters for a year and then fighting a skilled boxer. Just the differences in style alone would be a significant factor.

Arya has been practicing Syrio's teachings for years now, and was with the faceless men for years as well. its been like 6 years since season 1

[Jastall]

Speaking of fighting other fighting styles. Anyone else find it strange that the Dothraki just decimate the soldiers? Don't get me wrong they were going to win. But the whole fight and their arakhs all finding the perfect spot to kill reminded me of Jorah vs Qotho and there was NONE of that. The Lannister soldiers may as well have been wearing rags.

These were footmen mostly wearing leather and cloth armor, not heavily armored knights. Their shields provided much of their defenses, and once Drogon punched a hole in their shieldwall and sent many troops in a disorganized panic, they were easy pickings for the mobile Dothraki.

I don't like the Dothraki and think the idea of some Hunnic-esque light cavalry people (Mongols used many more tools than that) beating a 15-16th century force is rubbish most of the time, but in a situation where the Dothraki attack an enemy stretched thin, have the element of surprise, and enjoy the air support of a giant stonking dragon to break enemy lines and cause terror, I can easily understand how the Lannisters lost, it absolutely makes sense.

[CalasEU]

Amazing battle. The moment you hear the Dragon roar and then it appears from the clouds. I had goosebumps!

Also, rofl at Ser Davos telling Jon they have "fewer" men than 10 000.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWcVQIWI_ww

[Ilikegreenfire]

She would've died frozen either way.

- - - Updated - - -



Dunno man I don't think GRRM will write a scene where a 15 year old girl parries the greatsword of a very strong person using a toothpick.

If you were talking about the initial part you can tell brienne wasn't even trying and arya was fucking with her because she knew she wasn't.

[Deleted]

If you bend the knee she wont burn you

Man, what a choice.

Be killed with a super-weapon, or submit.

Dany is basically America in WW2... Only the Japanese weren't attacking anyone outside of Japan... Actually America invaded Japan because they decided the White House should be located in Tokyo instead... Then America dropped a nuke on them... For reasons.

She's going to be little more than a tyrant, and she's little more than a spite-filled entitled conqueror at this point.

[Deleted]

I understand that scouting parties is a military tactic not yet invented in the world of the show but Jaime getting ambushed here is funny in the context of the previous episode where he has claimed that he has learnt his lesson from getting defeated by Robb Stark because in the books the lesson he learnt from that battle was exactly that you should send scouting parties no matter if you expect an enemy attack or don't.

[Deleted]

I think people are forgetting that she was basically raised with the idea that these are the people that killed her family, took their lands, would have murdered her in her crib, and sent assassins across the world to kill her.

Except she knows the truth about why people deposed her family. She already apologised to Jon for her father, she knows people were justified in rising against him and despising oppressive Targaryen rule, and she really ought not be surprised they would try to kill possibly-vengeful surviving children. Based on current events, it appears they were vindicated for having those fears, too.

Thus far she's done nothing to show the people and lords of Westeros that she can be different. Just another Targ conqueror imposing their will using super-weapons that only they possess.

[Gallahadd]

Which ultimately is bullshit imo. I'm not saying Arya shouldn't be skilled but to be on the same level or even better than Brienne as a duelist is just... absurd imo. She can be a master assassin and all that jazz but a tiny girl beating seasoned knights with ease is ridiculous.

TO be fair.... Brienne isn't exactly an amazing fighter, her skill with a blade is average at best. The fights she's won were against hampered enemies, AND she mostly won by overpowering them. In terms of actual fighting skill, she's distinctly middle of the road.

So a fairly average, if very strong knight, against a Braavosi trained water dancer and assassin.

Seems like a fair fight to me.