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  1. #721
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    He wants to address the culture, derp. Read the fucking document.
    I did. The way he wants to go about that seem counter productive to me. Especially doing it on a scale of a single company or business culture in general. The differences he notes run far deeper than just applying some bandaid fixes to play to the differences.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    He did read. He read what other people who didn't read it said.
    Oh hey Dex

    - - - Updated - - -

    And really he's kind of contradicting what he's saying. To claim something is inherently biological how can that be changed through shift in societal mindsets?

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    I did. The way he wants to go about that seem counter productive to me.
    Some of his solutions are feminist solutions.

    Emphasize viable part-time working arrangements so more time for family-work balance, additional mental health care in the workplace for stress, look at the "inflexibility of the male role", create more opportunities for co-operative work so competitiveness (which is generally exhibited more by men) isn't such a large factor in progression.

    Maybe you're pulling the "oh he wants to infantilise women!" card, IDK, but the fact remains that he made the same suggestions made time and again by feminists, to help women progress

    The main reason he's being pilloried (and the reason he got fired) is because he did it whilst committing the crime of being white, cis and male, and breaching the taboo subject of biological and psychological differences to explain his reasoning.
    Last edited by mmoc4359933d3d; 2017-08-08 at 07:46 PM.

  3. #723
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Some of his solutions are feminist solutions.

    Emphasize viable part-time working arrangements so more time for family-work balance, additional mental health care in the workplace for stress, look at the "inflexibility of the male role", create more opportunities for co-operative work so competitiveness (which is generally exhibited more by men) isn't such a large factor in progression.

    Maybe you're pulling the "oh he wants to infantilise women!" card, but the main reason he's being pilloried (and the reason he got fired) is because he made the same suggestions made time and again by feminists, to help women progress, but he did it whilst committing the crime of being male and breaching the taboo subject of biological and psychological differences.
    I get that but ultimately its kind of pointless is it not? All of those are fine suggestions but like he says the nature of top businesses, wealth, status will keep them still lagging behind. Sure he addresses that is the case and that should change but then later goes on to suggest taking focus off empathy in a corporate culture which would just further make his suggestions useless.

    But again I just disagree with the notion that the psychological differences between men and women are inherently or mostly biological. If the suggestion is to change society so men can be more feminine that's still not addressing that the "differences" are cultural.
    Last edited by Dug; 2017-08-08 at 07:55 PM.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    It's quite a jump from "political views" to "gas all the jews"

    I know it rhymes but creating strawmen does not help any kind of discussion. Kindly use the correct and relevant analogies please.
    I don't see how very real, although very extreme, right wing political views are irrelevant to use in an example where they might interfere with a person's professional life. I'm not saying that the google-guy has anything to do with neo-nazies, I only used them as a strong example to argue that people don't deserve immunity from being fired for having damaging and even hateful views and attitudes towards certain people.
    Mother pus bucket!

  5. #725
    what to expect from a company ran by poo in loo

  6. #726
    I'd fire him too. This kind of attitude is unsuitable for work environment, especially the last line women being biologically unsuitable for technical work.

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    The era of “Alternative Facts”; the left has its own series of dumb beliefs. As does the right. Though the right does seem to, currently, have a semi-monopoly on it.
    That's great and all that the right is worse at it. How does that forgive the side regularly up it's own ass about how good they are acting stupidly? Did Trump make them do this?

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I'd fire him too. This kind of attitude is unsuitable for work environment, especially the last line women being biologically unsuitable for technical work.
    He never said that, please stop repeating the media's lies.

  9. #729
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Pretty obvious why he was fired.
    You do not publicly talk like that about your current employer.
    You can do that after you moved on.

    Companies generally do not like that kind of openness. Esp openness about stuff that doesn't work so well.

    He is right though: arbitrarily enforcing quotas is dumb. The society and industry should change so that women are universally accepted and want to work in the field w/o having to rely on quotas for "protection" or "indirect bribery".

    Because these quotas only state one thing:
    We know you don't want to hire women but if you don't we will punish you.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Spotting people in this thread that haven't read the memo - in its original, unaltered, non blog-site "leak" form - is like shooting fish in a barrel.
    The news coverage of this has been pretty dire also so blame that as much as anything.

    At no point is he saying women are biological unfit. Talking as someone who studied business and engineering and university all I have to say is where were the women? Why was my business class like 60% asians(in a country where I think they make up 10% of the population) and why did all but one of the women in 1st year engineering go into food technology for the second year, none of them went into mechanics or anything else. Is this just social norms? Are people not allowed to choose what they want to do? That is where the disparity starts(you know, the very second you start to choose your career path) and it is the same over in the USA. That is not something google is going to fix with their hiring policies.

    Gender roles exist the world over. I forget that the entire planet colluded against women. In spite of physical disparities that cannot be argued there simply *cannot* be behavioral differences either. Oh, I forget, men are all violent rapists, they exist as is convenient.

    One of these points of view is beyond belief and I am sorry I side firmly with ex google guy. There is only so much "social engineering" one can stand before it gets to be a little silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    You do not publicly talk like that about your current employer.
    He never released this publicly.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Anyone who has spent time with a man and a woman knows there are huge differences between the two and THANK GOD that there are.


    Auto insurance companies agree with you.


    "Gender is one of many factors your insurer takes into account when calculating your premium. But why is it a factor? In addition to the fact that women tend to drive less than men, accident and DUI statistics consistently reflect that male drivers, on the whole, take more driving risks than their female counterparts. And insurance companies price policies, in part, by predicting risk.

    There are 3 main categories that suggest women are safer drivers than men: accidents, speeding, and DUI convictions."



    However, they also make this statement.

    men, take heart: gender isn’t a primary rating factor
    If you're a guy, all this really means is that a female clone of yourself would likely pay less for auto insurance. Your personal driving record and claims history play a much bigger role, which means a safe-driving gentleman can expect to pay less than an accident-prone gentlewoman.



    Edit Source link for what I posted

    https://www.esurance.com/info/car/wh...-car-insurance
    Last edited by jibberbox85; 2017-08-08 at 08:52 PM.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I am not making excuses for the left... however I do dislike false equivalencies... as much as I like to think that everything is black and white/negative/positive, etc, life is almost never that simple.
    You can make it that easy. If you say "Don't treat people like shit based on color or gender", you fucking do it. You don't make loophole phrases like reverse racism or white privilege. But fuck it. Just say false equivalence and you don't have to think about how similar behaviors have become.

    As long as Republicans are worse, Democrats can be as shit as they want I guess.

  13. #733
    Forced diversity to meet a quota, just because, is one of the most retarded things ever conceived...

    People should be hired for their merits and qualifications, not what they were born as ffs.

    Pity this stupid notion is being carried over throughout the West because it's a trend, and daring to criticise against it will be met with bully tactics till fallen to submission.

    Damn Fascists...
    Last edited by Daedius; 2017-08-08 at 09:06 PM.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I agree with the "Don't treat people like shit based on color or gender"; Which is why I do not do that...

    But false equivalence is a "thing". However, it does not excuse the party that does it "less"...

    Psychologically speaking it is just human nature... when you have two bullies and one bully is 30% more of an asshole, naturally you are going to think "better" of the other bully... of course, logically both are bullies... no matter if one is "better" or not.

    So no... I do not excuse the left, which is why I have made a few posts decrying their idiotic behavior as well.
    It seems more like an exasperated mother. She only focuses on the worse of the two, expecting bad things. And that expectation turns into blindness over time.

    "Why did you get into a fight" slowly turns into "Of course you got into a fight". I'd prefer if the new tide of racism from the left wasn't regarded like that because the Republicans get in five fights a day.

  15. #735
    Immortal Zelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some virgin who used to (LOL) work at google
    Communism promised to be both morally and economically superior to capitalism, but every attempt became morally corrupt and an economic failure. As it became clear that the working class of the liberal democracies wasn’t going to overthrow their “capitalist oppressors,” the Marxist intellectuals transitioned from class warfare to gender and race politics. The core oppressor-oppressed dynamics remained, but now the oppressor is the “white, straight, cis-gendered patriarchy.”
    lmao I think if you let him vent at you he'd start talking about the Frankfurt School and maybe eventually chemtrails.

  16. #736
    LOL looks like CNN noticed James Damore is lawyering things up and quickly changed headlines to get out of it.




  17. #737
    Agree with him or not, Google is a private organization and should be able to hire and fire people at their discretion. This is a non-issue.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I agree, but unfortunately we have two dysfunctional parties. As much as I would love for both of them to implode and for people to stop being so "team" driven... that does not seem like it's going to happen (though the GOP is pretty close... the democrats are too unorganized to all go down with the ship).

    I want to get some positive change done, so working with the two face party seems more logical to me than working with the joker party... being controlled by the biggest Joker of them all, in the orange face paint.
    Well, it's not like two face didn't help by expecting to win because they called the joker racist.

    Anywho. The current trend of turning on white or straight allies makes me wonder how well that plan will work. Remember. People with white privilege need to watch their tone. (And know their place.)

  19. #739
    Diversity is very important but some organizations take a diversity mandate too far...Diversity for the sake of diversity can be more harmful than helpful (I'm not saying this is the case at Google -just in general this happens far too often.) Having said that, the comment by the individual "that women are biologically unsuitable for certain technical roles" - is absolutely ridiculous and should not be tolerated.

  20. #740
    The Lightbringer Snes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galathir View Post
    And please read up what "freedom of speech" means and what it protects you from.
    Basically everything except threats. I don't see him threatening anyone.
    Take a break from politics once in awhile, it's good for you.

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