Troll masterrace theory/Wild God theory

[chr2]

Hey guys, last night as I was lying in bed I had this crazy thought. It's a rather far-fetched theory, and there's really not much evidence to support it, but hopefully you'll find it an interesting read nonetheless. So here goes:

Azeroth has numerous Wild Gods, as well as several sapient animal-based races commonly associated with said gods. There's Ursoc and the Jalgar/Furbolg, Niuzao and the Yaungol/Tauren (presumably), Agammagan and the Quilboar, Aviana and the Harpies, Tortolla and the Tortollan (presumably, if the latter is to be considered canon), and possibly more. Brann Bronzebeard theorizes that these races descended from their respective Wild God in one way or another. Then there's also the Worgen, who share a connection with the Wild God Goldrinn, but their relationship with this god is different from the aforementioned races if Brann is to believed... But what if Brann is wrong?

The Worgen were created by Night Elf druids as a shapeshifting form by drawing on the powers of Goldrinn and as a result they also adopted his fury and savagery. Many Worgen became feral and hostile, unable to shift back into their normal form, and in most cases it took special druidic intervention to just partially revert the effects and allow the Worgen to regain their sanity. Most of the non Gilneas-related Worgen we meet in the wilds of Azeroth are still lost in their rage, more beast than man.So what if the other animal-based races had a similar origin?

Because they draw on the power of Goldrinn, the Worgen became wild and ferocious (like Goldrinn). Tauren are calm and centered, similar to Niuzao. Agamaggan was said to be noble but he was also shown wielding great fury; Quilboar are similar. In fact, all the Wild God-related races are shown to possess traits found in their respective god. It is of course possible they inherited them when they "descended" from them, but perhaps they gained these traits by drawing on the powers of their respective Wild God, similar to the Worgen and Goldrinn.

As we all know, Malfurion was the first druid, having been taught druidism by Cenarius just prior to the War of the Ancients. Malfurion passed his knowledge on to other Night Elves, which would eventually lead to the creation of the Worgen. We also know from Chronicles that Cenarius lived among the Yaungol decades before teaching druidism to Malfurion. So how can the Yaungol/other Wild God-"descended" races possibly share a similar origin to the Worgen? The answer is simple: Trolls.

Trolls worshiped the Wild Gods, or Loa, long before Night Elves or druids were even a thing. Trolls were never taught druidism by Cenarius, but still managed to learn druidic magic (or something closely resembling it) on their own. Similar to druids, they learned how to draw on the power of the Wild Gods, and how to transform into shapes resembling them. So basically, various groups of Trolls drew upon the powers of specific Wild Gods, turning into forms resembling them, and slowly over time became different races altogether through the power of these Wild Gods. This would also mean that Trolls were (potentially) the only sapient specie to naturally originate on Azeroth, with all others having either evolved from them or from the Titan-forged.

Now, here's how this theory "starts" to fall apart:
The Worgen weren't just created by drawing on the power of Goldrinn. It also took a certain artifact; the Scythe of Elune. Without it, the Druids of the Pack as they were called simply resembled ordinary wolves, similar to how Druids of the Claw transform into ordinary bears etc. Additionally, unlike other druid forms before them, the Worgen also had great difficulty (or unwillingness?) to turn back to their normal forms, perhaps from the effects of the Scythe's interference. From what we've seen in-game, Trolls are able to transform into animal-humanoid hybrids (akin to the Worgen) when drawing on the Wild Gods' powers without the need of an artifact like the Scythe of Elune (as seen in the Zul'Gurub bosses), but from what I recall they've never been shown having difficulty reverting back to their normal form or being permanently transformed. It is, however, possible that they could've used similarly powerful artifacts that prevented them from transforming back when they allegedly became the various animal-based races. Or the magic used could've been more potent that modern-day transformations.
Finally there's also the issue of the 'Worgen Curse', and how the Worgen form could be transmitted to others, which isn't an ability any of the other animal-based species share. It's also not an ability any of the other druid forms share, so perhaps this is also a result of using the Scythe. If the Trolls used artifacts of their own to create their forms, perhaps the curse is a side effect specific to the Scythe? Alternatively, it could also be the subtle differences in Troll and Night Elven druidism that resulted in the Troll forms not having a curse associated with them.

Well, that's pretty much it. Like I said, this theory is rather far-fetched, but what do you guys think? Is there some sliver of plausibility to any of this?

TL;DR Quilboar, Tauren, Furbolg and all other sapient species native to Azeroth with ties to the Wild Gods actually evolved from the Trolls, quite possibly making Trolls the only race to have naturally originated on Azeroth.

[Skildar]

I've read the whole thing and really seemed like a waste of time, because in the end I didn't even get what your theory is...
We basically know for a fact through chronicle and many other sources (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Troll) that they were part of the first races to walk the earth of Azeroth and the elves originated from them.
If your theory is that quilboars, furbolgs and taurens have as ancestry the trolls, I don't think your "theory" needs more development as there is no indication that it could be true or false, so speculate as you wish but don't write so much to tell so less.

[Al Gorefiend]

Trolls are confirmed the ancestor of night elves, therefore high, blood and shal'dorei elves too. As Worgen are Night Elf ancestors (not the Gilneans obviously) that makes them also the kin of Trolls.

They are also likely ancestors to Goblins, though Chronicles put the island pygmatism theory to rest as they were originally forest Goblins enhanced by Mimiron.

As for your theory on Quilboars, Tauren and the likes being shapeshifted Trolls like Worgen.. well that's a bit far-fetched because, that would imply shapeshifted forms can procreate pureblooded versions of whatever form they took. Are two Worgen able to have a baby that is a non-human Worgen, therefore basically just a wild animal?

[chr2]

I've read the whole thing and really seemed like a waste of time, because in the end I didn't even get what your theory is...
We basically know for a fact through chronicle and many other sources (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Troll) that they were part of the first races to walk the earth of Azeroth and the elves originated from them.
If your theory is that quilboars, furbolgs and taurens have as ancestry the trolls, I don't think your "theory" needs more development as there is no indication that it could be true or false, so speculate as you wish but don't write so much to tell so less.

Well, you did get what my theory was. You might've known all the facts and arguments beforehand, but not everyone who frequents this forum shares your level of knowledge. That's the reason I went so in-depth in the background of it all, but I'm sorry you thought it was a waste of time. Like I said, there's not much evidence to support it, but I figured it'd be an interesting take to share nonetheless. I'll add a TL;DR so others hopefully won't feel as robbed.

As for your theory on Quilboars, Tauren and the likes being shapeshifted Trolls like Worgen.. well that's a bit far-fetched because, that would imply shapeshifted forms can procreate pureblooded versions of whatever form they took. Are two Worgen able to have a baby that is a non-human Worgen, therefore basically just a wild animal?

That's a good point I didn't consider. According to the 4th round of "Ask CDev" two Worgen wouldn't create another Worgen if they procreated. I suppose that for this theory to have any merit, whatever made the Quilboar/Tauren/whatever transformations different from the Worgen form (be it artifacts, specifics of Troll druidism, or something entirely different) would have genetically altered the users, making them pass on the form to their offspring.

[Combatbutler]

Are two Worgen able to have a baby that is a non-human Worgen, therefore basically just a wild animal?

That question was actually answered by blizz, and the answer is no two human worgen would always have a human child.

[Mace]

That question was actually answered by blizz, and the answer is no two human worgen would always have a human child.

can you imagine growing up in a household like that? you're human but your parents are worgen, full moons are always interesting times.. then imagine having that secret to hide/show your friends.

they got so much stuff from pop fiction in this franchise, they could really show elements to the fantasy world just never considered before in these circles and also bring an air /flavour of some of the things we like most about the world of werewolves/vamps or the zombie world, or the tolkein high fantasy (elves/dwarves/orcs) world. To be fair, what they've done with Orcs and night elves is actually quite unique to the usual fantasy portrayals and quite an innovative take.

I think Orcs and night elves should be as big as humans because they are 2 of the most extraordinary and colourfully rich additions to Warcraft. The orcs could literally be their own world. As could the night elves. IF they did a tv series, that accurately portrayed Azeroth, would we see the races mix anywhere near as much as happens in game with players?

[Ramz]

eeeerrr no, shapeshifting ability doesn't change you to another being. To shapeshift you need to have access to emerald dream, and Loas are having access to it, so they were granting their blessings to their devoted priests to give them more power. And that's it.

And I don't know how does it make them master race. I know I was joking about it mainly due to playable trolls having access to almost each class, but that's it. I think this term is quite misleading as each one understands it differently, and it's likely causing quite vivid argues.

Regarding Loas, they're deemed to be wild gods like Nelven ancients, yet... they act so much different. And so are Pandaren Celestials which - unlike Loas and Ancients - don't have access to emerald dream.

Which makes me believe that this Wild gods stuff was half arsed as it didn't include said differences, and nether is shown how transition from Wild god to humanoid race looked like, and that is also interesting stuff.

Lastly - I read a while ago interesting fanon in which it was the Loas that created Azeroth. I liked this idea as showing whem as cosmic beigns that are not alined with light nor darkness/ void, and would show the reason why they're such a chaotic entities that yet seeks to have some sort of order in universe.

Would explain why trolls are their chosen race if they'd be behind their creation, and why they're (trolls) so strong and quite adaptive.

But it was just fanon, Azeroth is Titan. woohoo.

[Wildmoon]

I think you might be inspired by the shapeshifting abilities of the trolls in Zul'Aman. Correct me if I am wrong. There's a subtle but important difference though. The troll bosses in Zul'Aman could shapeshift because they literally sealed the loa spirits within themselves. They did not do it via any druidic technique whatsoever. Most of the bosses had backgorund as plain fighters with no magical ability. The only thing that gave them the power were the loa spirits inside them. The druids taught by Cenarius and Malfurion shapeshift by the techniques of taking on the various aspects of nature. They don't actually have to make contact with the wild gods to gain access to this power. The wild gods are just the purest respresentatives of their respective aspects of nature.

I think to infer from the above instances that trolls were able to shapeshift or use any druidic magic before Cata may not be adequate.

[Techno-Druid]

Regarding Loas, they're deemed to be wild gods like Nelven ancients, yet... they act so much different. And so are Pandaren Celestials which - unlike Loas and Ancients - don't have access to emerald dream.

That's never been confirmed, in fact it's more likely that the Celestials do have a connection to the Emerald Dream considering Freya entrusted Yu'lon with Fu Zan.

Long ago, as the titanic watcher Keeper Freya set out to populate the world with life, she placed one of the first seeds in Pandaria. From it grew Fu Zan, the first, and all of Pandaria's forests descended from it. Before populating the rest of Azeroth, Freya fashioned a walking stick for her travels from one of Fu Zan's branches. Eventually Freya passed her staff to the Jade Serpent, Yu'lon, who later gave it to a uniquely clever hozen. The Monkey King, as he was called, hung his most prized possessions from the staff, which he carries with him to this day.

It would be pretty weird and asshole-ish of Freya to not connect the August Celestials to the Emerald Dream.

[Wildmoon]

It would be pretty weird and asshole-ish of Freya to not connect the August Celestials to the Emerald Dream.

Not unlikely if they did not roam the world with her. She may not have had the chance to. The chronicle itself is not clear on this. It seemingly states that the wild gods are bound to the ED by their nature then later states that Freya bound them to the ED at Hyjal.

Off topic, I just want to keep it clear that not all loas are wild gods. Trolls call literally any supernatural being loa.

[Wyrt]

I'm pretty sure it's the night elves that fucked random animals to produce the animal races, not the trolls. I mean, the night elf goddess did fuck a giant deer.

[chr2]

eeeerrr no, shapeshifting ability doesn't change you to another being. To shapeshift you need to have access to emerald dream, and Loas are having access to it, so they were granting their blessings to their devoted priests to give them more power. And that's it.

And I don't know how does it make them master race. I know I was joking about it mainly due to playable trolls having access to almost each class, but that's it. I think this term is quite misleading as each one understands it differently, and it's likely causing quite vivid argues.

Regarding Loas, they're deemed to be wild gods like Nelven ancients, yet... they act so much different. And so are Pandaren Celestials which - unlike Loas and Ancients - don't have access to emerald dream.

Which makes me believe that this Wild gods stuff was half arsed as it didn't include said differences, and nether is shown how transition from Wild god to humanoid race looked like, and that is also interesting stuff.

Lastly - I read a while ago interesting fanon in which it was the Loas that created Azeroth. I liked this idea as showing whem as cosmic beigns that are not alined with light nor darkness/ void, and would show the reason why they're such a chaotic entities that yet seeks to have some sort of order in universe.

Would explain why trolls are their chosen race if they'd be behind their creation, and why they're (trolls) so strong and quite adaptive.

But it was just fanon, Azeroth is Titan. woohoo.

Like others have said before me, we don't know for sure if the August Celestials have access to the Emerald Dream or not. It's a valid point though, as this theory probably hinges on the fact that they (and most specifically Niuzao) do. Alternatively, maybe there's another bovine Wild God out there (WotA does mention one, but it could have been Niuzao) with access to the ED that the trolls then draw on to create the Tauren, but that's stretching it a bit far.

Also you say we don't know the transition from Wild God to humanoid race. You're right, lorewise we have nothing to indicate how this happened, and that's exactly what this theory is trying to explain.

I think you might be inspired by the shapeshifting abilities of the trolls in Zul'Aman. Correct me if I am wrong. There's a subtle but important difference though. The troll bosses in Zul'Aman could shapeshift because they literally sealed the loa spirits within themselves. They did not do it via any druidic technique whatsoever. Most of the bosses had backgorund as plain fighters with no magical ability. The only thing that gave them the power were the loa spirits inside them. The druids taught by Cenarius and Malfurion shapeshift by the techniques of taking on the various aspects of nature. They don't actually have to make contact with the wild gods to gain access to this power. The wild gods are just the purest respresentatives of their respective aspects of nature.

I think to infer from the above instances that trolls were able to shapeshift or use any druidic magic before Cata may not be adequate.

I was actually inspired by the trolls in Zul'Gurub (the High Priests and -Priestesses) who, unlike their Amani brethren, were able to shift into animalistic forms without sealing the Loa gods within themselves simply by calling on the Loas' powers. These forms (e.g. the serpent-like "Slith" form, and cat-like "Tigon") have a lot in common with the Worgen form in that they're all animal-humanoid shapeshifting forms that one could enter and leave on a whim (even if the Worgen seemed to forget the latter). I know it's not really druidism per se, since trolls were never taught druidism, but I'd argue that whatever magic the trolls used here is still within the branch of Nature magic.

Even if the elven druids were able to shapeshift by drawing on the aspects of nature, the Druids of the Pack are very much shown drawing on Goldrinn's powers specifically in the "Curse of the Worgen" comic.

[Wildmoon]

Even if the elven druids were able to shapeshift by drawing on the aspects of nature, the Druids of the Pack are very much shown drawing on Goldrinn's powers specifically in the "Curse of the Worgen" comic.

When they said "Goldrinn's power" It likely meant the aspects of nature Goldrinn represents which should be pure ferocity or something along that line. They take on the aspect of pure ferocity but could not control it. They even thought the form was the purest essence of nature. I mean most of them didn't even meet Goldrinn in person. Malfurion also experimented with the form mostly and his own until Cenarius smacked him out of it. I doubt Goldrinn was there to literally lend them his own power when he was still in spirit form after he fell in WotA. It seems quite different from the trolls of Zul'Gurub. The trolls actually made contacts with the loas.

[Ramz]

I think you might be inspired by the shapeshifting abilities of the trolls in Zul'Aman. Correct me if I am wrong. There's a subtle but important difference though. The troll bosses in Zul'Aman could shapeshift because they literally sealed the loa spirits within themselves.

But Gurubashi didn't do it. Loas granted exact same powers to their Highpriests. Altho imo Zul'Aman stuff is quite messed up to begin with imo.

Most of the bosses had backgorund as plain fighters with no magical ability.

This is why they needed hexxer. However the topic was about Troll priests. And here is a difference. Zul'Aman bosses were not priests.

The druids taught by Cenarius and Malfurion shapeshift by the techniques of taking on the various aspects of nature. They don't actually have to make contact with the wild gods to gain access to this power. The wild gods are just the purest respresentatives of their respective aspects of nature.

And still Gonk appeared that granted Darkspears access to emerald dream. Which works the same for them, yet it's giving them some independence as they didn't had to bend down to nelves to get boons.

I think to infer from the above instances that trolls were able to shapeshift or use any druidic magic before Cata may not be adequate.

They are tho, becuase OP was mainly reffering Zul'Gurub ones.

That's never been confirmed, in fact it's more likely that the Celestials do have a connection to the Emerald Dream considering Freya entrusted Yu'lon with Fu Zan.

What I know was that Yu'long had to have jade statue build for him in order to reborn, becase she wasn't able to enter emerald dream.

But it could be retconned, I lost a track on what is going on, so any source contradicting it/ retconning it is welcome.

It would be pretty weird and asshole-ish of Freya to not connect the August Celestials to the Emerald Dream.

I dunno, I'm trying to gather pieces I know for sure. Blizzard proved me many times that logic and common reason doesn't apply to WoW Lore.

[Techno-Druid]

But Gurubashi didn't do it. Loas granted exact same powers to their Highpriests. Altho imo Zul'Aman stuff is quite messed up to begin with imo.



This is why they needed hexxer. However the topic was about Troll priests. And here is a difference. Zul'Aman bosses were not priests.



And still Gonk appeared that granted Darkspears access to emerald dream. Which works the same for them, yet it's giving them some independence as they didn't had to bend down to nelves to get boons.


They are tho, becuase OP was mainly reffering Zul'Gurub ones.




What I know was that Yu'long had to have jade statue build for him in order to reborn, becase she wasn't able to enter emerald dream.

But it could be retconned, I lost a track on what is going on, so any source contradicting it/ retconning it is welcome.





I dunno, I'm trying to gather pieces I know for sure. Blizzard proved me many times that logic and common reason doesn't apply to WoW Lore.

My headcanon is that the Jade statue acts like a vassal which allows Yu'lon to re-enter the material world through the Emerald Dream, but that's just speculation.

[shoc]

I think Trolls are descendant of an unknown Salamander Wild God, just as the Tauren are descendants of a Bison Wild God, Quillboar to Agamaggan, etc etc. Being descendant from a Salamander Wild God would explain Troll regeneration, as well the fact that they have three fingers and toes.

[munkeyinorbit]

I've read the whole thing and really seemed like a waste of time, because in the end I didn't even get what your theory is...
We basically know for a fact through chronicle and many other sources (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Troll) that they were part of the first races to walk the earth of Azeroth and the elves originated from them.
If your theory is that quilboars, furbolgs and taurens have as ancestry the trolls, I don't think your "theory" needs more development as there is no indication that it could be true or false, so speculate as you wish but don't write so much to tell so less.

Thanks professor. Can you help me with my English literature essays? He is saying that all species that worship the Wild Gods are descended from trolls. Its bolded right there at the bottom of the post.

[Wildmoon]

But Gurubashi didn't do it. Loas granted exact same powers to their Highpriests. Altho imo Zul'Aman stuff is quite messed up to begin with imo.

The whole point is that what the trolls in Zul'Gurub did was already different from druidism as formulated by Cenarius and Malfurion. And the tradition of championing the loas certainly did not start with the Zul'Gurub raid but ancient time. If the chronicle does not count this tradition of the trolls as druidism in the ancient time then it is not. It's nature magic since wild gods are of nature magic but not really druidism.

This is why they needed hexxer. However the topic was about Troll priests. And here is a difference. Zul'Aman bosses were not priests.

I was addressing ZA but he alraedy said it was not ZA, so I don't know if what's the point of this reply.

And still Gonk appeared that granted Darkspears access to emerald dream. Which works the same for them, yet it's giving them some independence as they didn't had to bend down to nelves to get boons.

They still went to the CC for teaching after Gonk gave them the access. I don't know why people are so concerned with "bending down" for teaching or shit like that. Why would you not want to learn from the best?

They are tho, becuase OP was mainly reffering Zul'Gurub ones.

What's the point of this comment? He already said it was not ZA and I knew it already.

[Destinas]

It's entirely possible that some races are simply druidic versions of other races. It's never really stated how Aviana made Harpies, just that she did indeed make them - even though they do look like Trolls and/or Night Elves (the newer ones look more like Trolls). Similarly, Trolls, Hozen, Furbolgs, Tauren, and Quillboars share a lot of similarities in their cultures. There have been several instances of Trolls having a hybrid form in both ZA and ZG - more in Vanilla ZG, however. And, let's not forget about Claws of Shirvallah, even though it looks like the Saberon, which of course have nothing to do with Trolls.

That said, there have been animal-like races that were definitely created by something other than druidic magic. The aforementioned Saberon have no Wild God connection at all, and have no mentioned origin otherwise. Likely, they were created (uplifted?) with the Spirit of Life, similarly to Rukhmar, Anzu, and Sethe. It should also be noted that Rukhmar created the Arakkoa by expending her own energy. The Wild Gods of Azeroth are much more powerful, being charged with the powers of Azeroth itself, meaning that they could do so without being weakened, unlike Rukhmar. However, of course, these are examples on Draenor, with a different ecosystem.

On Azeroth, we also know that Murlocs were uplifted in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms into Jinyu - since that is the way Wild Gods came to be as well, it's not out of the question for the same to have happened to the ancestors of animalistic races. There are also Wild Gods that share similarities to several races already. Ursol, Ursoc, Nalorakk, and/or Rhunok could have created the Pandaren, for instance. There are also the insect descendants of the Aqir, which were created directly from the Old Gods, despite Shadra's existence as a Spider Loa. Some animal races also worship things that probably didn't make them - the Tuskarr worship Oacha'noa, among several other gods. She's a kraken that is able to speak, and lets on that she may be a Loa.

tldr - Some, perhaps. It's not unlikely, but also not an overwhelming possibility. More races were probably created by Wild Gods (Furbolgs/Jalgar), Azeroth itself (Jinyu), different magic (Rukhmar/Arakkoa), the Old Gods (Aqir), or the Keepers.

[Schattenlied]

can you imagine growing up in a household like that? you're human but your parents are worgen full moons are always interesting times.. then imagine having that secret to hide/show your friends.

Well if it were on Azeroth, and you're part of the Alliance, Worgen would be fairly common and there would be no need to hide it.


And it's extremely easy to turn a Human(or Night Elf for that matter) into a Worgen, simply drinking Worgen blood will contract the "curse" (I wouldn't consider it a curse if you had complete control over it as they do), though it would be pretty dickish to force that upon your children... Best to let them grow old enough to make their own choices and then decide for themselves if they want to be a Worgen or not, and if they decide they do, they just need to drink the blood and undergo the ritual that allows them maintain control.