[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.

[1001]

Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.

You can still spend $750 a month simply by emptying your wallet each time it reaches its cap, ie purchase some cargo that you know you will profit from. Or you might have a few accounts (very common with the more fanatical spenders) and simply do the above on all accounts before trading the cargo to your main.

I thought the idea of the slider was pretty much done away with and they were now going for areas within a system that would be PvP enabled etc as well as having some systems that have higher security presence/rules than others.

[KyrtF]

It has not been stated there won't be an optional sub for the game, there is actually a current sub at the moment 12 and 24 versions, where they can add upon the current sub with ingame bonus's like extra credits every mission, a sub will always give a slight advantage to the player mostly to make thing take less time to aquire, and as an optional sub you still get full access to the game.

Trouble...CIG HAVE ruled out a subscription based system and an "optional sub" which gives a 'slight' advantage where you just take less time.....

first...that IS pay to win
second...that IS microtransactions

Marketing wise they don't need to do anything further, maybe something when the game is ready for full release

Yes....CIG are already spending millions on marketing each year. They will however need to spend more so they can expand to a larger audience. Citizencon, YT vids and so on are already preaching to the converted. But CIG cannot make the assumption that there are no more ears to reach.

If you think CIG with its history of hype isn't planning on a big marketing push.....CIG don't have the money for the marketing campaign associated with a AAA title but they should be able to afford somethibg better than word of nouth

[kenn9530]

Trouble...CIG HAVE ruled out a subscription based system and an "optional sub" which gives a 'slight' advantage where you just take less time.....

first...that IS pay to win
second...that IS microtransactions

They only ruled out a subscription only based game, you know the game already as an optional subscription and that can easily modified for some ingame benefits, if there is no ingame benefits then an optional sub is pointless.

Optional subs usually only give a slight boost in earning things ingame, they could just add veteran bonus's like rare ship skins for each 30 day period, there is nothing pay to win about optional subs unless they make it where you have access to things that other players don't.

I can guarantee there will be an optional sub system in place on release, as long as players no matter if they are subbed or not have the same access there is nothing pay to win, now if you could buy the best weapons and equipment for real money that would make it pay to win, otherwise a small boost to make things take a little less time to aquire is not pay to win.

[Majestic12]

Buying ingame credits has a limit so that would only go so far anyway. There will also be a slider ingame so you can put pve or pvp up or down so its much less likely you will encounter things you don't want to do at that time, there will be lots of pvp however.

Im looking forward to when they start putting in ways to customise your ships.

Im also sure in populated systems it would be risky for a player to attack another for no reason, there will most likely be a military police presence to help with unwanted hostilities, maybe implement a distress beacon for the player to activate and npcs/players come to help for a set reward.

Yeah, you're right about ingame credits being limited in terms of time.

The PvP slider is not a thing, however. It was discussed and the last time it was brought up it was dismissed. It was just an idea. Even if that was implemented though, it was said it would not be in effect in low security space. A lot of people had the impression it would basically let you enable or disable PvP but that was never a thing either.

[Tierbook]

The Sub reddit seems to be buzzing about in game streaming, that is sitting in your ship watching a live stream of other people exploring areas via a camera on the suits.

[KyrtF]

They only ruled out a subscription only based game, you know the game already as an optional subscription and that can easily modified for some ingame benefits, if there is no ingame benefits then an optional sub is pointless.

Yep....and the pay to win aspect is worrying me.

Optional subs usually only give a slight boost in earning things ingame, they could just add veteran bonus's like rare ship skins for each 30 day period, there is nothing pay to win about optional subs unless they make it where you have access to things that other players don't.

Please don't be so naive. If you get a battleship a month or a week or a year before others can get it in game, it's pay to win. It gives you an immediate advantage over other players and it matters not if such units or boosts can be achieved for free.

Conversely a subscription that doesn't have in game benefits is essentially worthless.

Yes...I am also aware that CIG are aware of this amd will separate pay to winners from those who simply play but will also merge the two bases after a few months.

That to me is an indication that the game will have PTW aspects.More so CR liked the WoT PTW model.

He sees it as "catching up" but any system put in to allow catchup play can also be used by the leaders. It doesn't matter how you cut it....unless you limit transactions to pure cosmetic options, the game becomes PTW by giving...at the very least...a boost to players for money. If paying real money allows player to buy extra credits which they then use to buy ships or weapons or upgrades, thats PTW.

And a subscription that limits you to just cosmetic options doesn't seem viable.

[kenn9530]

Yep....and the pay to win aspect is worrying me.



Please don't be so naive. If you get a battleship a month or a week or a year before others can get it in game, it's pay to win. It gives you an immediate advantage over other players and it matters not if such units or boosts can be achieved for free.

Conversely a subscription that doesn't have in game benefits is essentially worthless.

Yes...I am also aware that CIG are aware of this amd will separate pay to winners from those who simply play but will also merge the two bases after a few months.

That to me is an indication that the game will have PTW aspects.More so CR liked the WoT PTW model.

He sees it as "catching up" but any system put in to allow catchup play can also be used by the leaders. It doesn't matter how you cut it....unless you limit transactions to pure cosmetic options, the game becomes PTW by giving...at the very least...a boost to players for money. If paying real money allows player to buy extra credits which they then use to buy ships or weapons or upgrades, thats PTW.

And a subscription that limits you to just cosmetic options doesn't seem viable.

Pay to win means you can buy something that increases your power, the average optional sub systems usually just cut down on the grind by a small percentage, there obvoiusly needs to be some ingame benefits to having a sub, maybe it could be just veteran rewards with new skins and stuff.

What would it matter anyway if someone earnt for say a idris, for one they need friends to help man all the stations or your going to gimp yourself, and your friends may not play very well, a handful of small decent armed fighters could eventually take your idris down if your crew doesnt have the skills to shoot them down, not to mention the retaiator ship with massive fuck off torps to damage or destroy most of the larger ships.

The larger ships are only as good as the crew, and do you have 24 plus friends to help crew these ships properly and these ships can be easily noticed and will be much slower than smaller ships so you can just stay away from it.

SC will have a good focus on player skill and not what ship your flying, and there will be many ways to customise your ships to improve the capabilities further. Unless you have bought one already and idris could take months to earn and a javelin could take a year. Also pvp will most likely be happening more in low security space so if you heading that way you expect to be attacked and you can always just run away.

[KyrtF]

Pay to win means you can buy something that increases your power

Yes...and in CIGs PTW system, that something is in game money which you use to buy thing like ships and weapons.

Does it matter that this is indirect? Nope. But that is the reality. You spend money to get in game currency and you can then spend that currency on equipment which boosts your performance.

Put simply...compare to players who put the dame amount of time into the game. One buys currency and uses it to buy and equip ships. The other does not.

At the end of whatever time frame you want...who will have the better ship?

Pay to Win in action.

there obvoiusly needs to be some ingame benefits to having a sub, maybe it could be just veteran rewards with new skins and stuff.

Yes...a sub needs some sort of benefit to justify.

If those benefits have an impact on gameplay, even indirectly, you have Pay To Win.
If they don't, well...you may as well just open up a store for microtransactions.

CIG would have been far better either keeping quiet or imposing a subscription fee to cover running costs and development on everyone.

What would it matter anyway if someone earnt for say a idris, for one they need friends to help man all the stations or your going to gimp yourself

You get a bunch of friends who pool their bought in game currency and buy and crew a ship. You think that makes them less effective? Ever play a MMO? There are entire guilds of 10s or 100s of players who do this type of thing.

The larger ships are only as good as the crew, and do you have 24 plus friends to help crew these ships properly and these ships can be easily noticed and will be much slower than smaller ships so you can just stay away from it.

You've not done much PvP have you?

C will have a good focus on player skill and not what ship your flying, and there will be many ways to customise your ships to improve the capabilities further.

Such as by using the ingame cash you bought with real life money to ensure your "slow" ship is fast enough to catch the "fast" ships of those who didn't pay to upgrade?

Unless you have bought one already and idris could take months to earn and a javelin could take a year.

Are you trying to prove the game is or isn't pay to win when you bring this up?

Also pvp will most likely be happening more in low security space so if you heading that way you expect to be attacked and you can always just run away.

Will your weapons be disabled in high security space?

Besides...it isn't just PvP. Earning ships is one of the goals of games like this. How many players have them? Paying money means you get an advantage over those who don't....not just in combat but also trade, mining and so on. How is that not PTW?

[kenn9530]

Yes...and in CIGs PTW system, that something is in game money which you use to buy thing like ships and weapons.

Does it matter that this is indirect? Nope. But that is the reality. You spend money to get in game currency and you can then spend that currency on equipment which boosts your performance.

Put simply...compare to players who put the dame amount of time into the game. One buys currency and uses it to buy and equip ships. The other does not.

At the end of whatever time frame you want...who will have the better ship?

Pay to Win in action.





Yes...a sub needs some sort of benefit to justify.

If those benefits have an impact on gameplay, even indirectly, you have Pay To Win.
If they don't, well...you may as well just open up a store for microtransactions.

CIG would have been far better either keeping quiet or imposing a subscription fee to cover running costs and development on everyone.



You get a bunch of friends who pool their bought in game currency and buy and crew a ship. You think that makes them less effective? Ever play a MMO? There are entire guilds of 10s or 100s of players who do this type of thing.




You've not done much PvP have you?



Such as by using the ingame cash you bought with real life money to ensure your "slow" ship is fast enough to catch the "fast" ships of those who didn't pay to upgrade?



Are you trying to prove the game is or isn't pay to win when you bring this up?



Will your weapons be disabled in high security space?

Besides...it isn't just PvP. Earning ships is one of the goals of games like this. How many players have them? Paying money means you get an advantage over those who don't....not just in combat but also trade, mining and so on. How is that not PTW?

You don't have a clue at all, currently all you can buy is stock ships and weapons and at launch you won't even be able to do that, there is a limit on ingame currency you can buy and its not much, there will be loads of ways to earn more than enough credits ingame, all real money in doing is saving you time so you can focus on other things. You can currently buy 25k uec each day and only hold 150k currently, the game has to make money from as many avenues as possible but still its not pay to win, you also don't even have a clue how the game will play properly at launch, i can even see them putting in a reputation system so you couldnt even use the ship until the appropriate lvl and the insurance spawn timers on these massive ships may even be days before you can spawn another.

If your flying a large ship your going to be a large target for players to group up and destroy, your acting like these ships will be indestructable when in reality smaller ships will be able to out manouver the turrets and do lots of damage or even destroy your massive ship even with it fully manned. These large ships have many blindspots you can take full advatage of.

And who the hell cares anyway if people have spent loads of money for nice ships, the whole game is not centered around every man for themselves pvp, there will be many places you can safely pve to your hearts content, and if you do encounter people wanting to blow you up you can just make a run for it, we will have to see when the games in a more complete state to know for sure the gameplay aspects in the PU.

Proper pirate gameplay will have an essential need to either get a bribe from that player not to board or destroy them if you have managed to disable them or to board and steal the cargo or even steal the whole ship itself, there will be little to no rewards for just blowing random ships up for no reason. Logically there is more reason to keep them alive so they can fill up the cargo hold again and you can try steal even more cargo.

[Post]

The Sub reddit seems to be buzzing about in game streaming, that is sitting in your ship watching a live stream of other people exploring areas via a camera on the suits.

Just seems like something that they should worry about after the game is out and successful to me...

[Odeezee]

PTW in a game like SC is a conversation that should be had in context. there is no "WINNING" in the traditional sense of winning; getting the biggest ship =/= you win and seeing as the game has many roles, some non-combat in nature how would you characterize winning then if you are an explorer? how does having more money = you get more places to explore? what about if you are a medic? or a bounty hunter? or an engineer? a turret gunner? a commercial space pilot? having the biggest most decked out fighter spaceship won't help you with cargo hauling. and if people try and argue "well if you are cargo hauling then you could just get the biggest cargo hauler and get the most moneiesssss", well you are going to need a lot of friends or have to pay for crew members, then there are larger fuel costs, larger fighter escort costs, greater maintenance overhead, etc associated with larger vessels, so when exactly does the "winning" begin?

- - - Updated - - -

Just seems like something that they should worry about after the game is out and successful to me...

why? they have over 400 on staff, why not tackle what you can tackle when you can? also this tech is basically the main way that players will interact with the game mechanics such as professions, communication, missions, shopping, customization, etc so building it now helps them develop content with that in mind. this is not your typical MMO and as such they are doing things never before done in an MMO most of their work is R&D and if after refining their pipelines they deem this to be the best course of action, crowd-funding affords them then room to test it out.

[masterhorus8]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...d_and_pay2win/

Take it as you will. It may be old, but not much of the info has changed (if any).

[Eleccybubb]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...d_and_pay2win/

Take it as you will. It may be old, but not much of the info has changed (if any).

Can be as big or small as it wants. Pay to win is pay to win at the end of the day.

Right now I'd say it's pay to win. To soften the blow I guess pay to heavily advance.

[Tierbook]

Can be as big or small as it wants. Pay to win is pay to win at the end of the day.

Right now I'd say it's pay to win. To soften the blow I guess pay to heavily advance.

Ehhh once it releases it will only have the currency for sale not actual ships. If we are to say that the game is pay to win at that point then we'd have to say that World of Warcraft is Pay-to-win thanks to being able to purchase game time and then sell it for in game gold.

[Post]

why? they have over 400 on staff, why not tackle what you can tackle when you can?

So they can not delay the game another 3 years.

[masterhorus8]

Can be as big or small as it wants. Pay to win is pay to win at the end of the day.

Right now I'd say it's pay to win. To soften the blow I guess pay to heavily advance.

And in addition to what Tierbook said, the $ -> UEC cap will supposedly be low enough to prevent people from really getting too much, such as buying a "good" ship right off the bat. It's supposed to be in place to let people that can't play keep up with the people that do. But IIRC, another stipulation of the cap will keep people from being able to pay for UEC AND play a lot. Something like, the less you play, the more you can buy, but you can't go over X amount.

[Edge-]

But IIRC, another stipulation of the cap will keep people from being able to pay for UEC AND play a lot. Something like, the less you play, the more you can buy, but you can't go over X amount.

I...can't see that at all. That absolutely guts their ability to monetize whales, who are more likely than not to be heavy players vs. infrequent players.

[masterhorus8]

I...can't see that at all. That absolutely guts their ability to monetize whales, who are more likely than not to be heavy players vs. infrequent players.

Yeah, I agree with that. I'll do some digging around to see if I can find the video/post that mentioned it again.

EDIT: To be fair though, just a consistent source of income can do wonders, even if they can't milk the whales. So as long as people can put more money in to do less effort, they likely will.

[Edge-]

Yeah, I agree with that. I'll do some digging around to see if I can find the video/post that mentioned it again.

I'm very intrigued, so please post if you find it. I mean it's a laudable goal in a sense, but it's not going to be received well (similar to how FFXIV got raked over the coals initially for their plans to lower XP gains the longer you played in an attempt to keep things "fair" for high vs. low time players) and in this instance it runs contrary to all existing monetization in games.

Though it's worth noting that even if they do have plans to do that, they're not set in stone. As we've already seen, a ton changes between what was initially announced and what actually happens : P