North Korea Develops Miniaturized Nuclear Warhead, Crossing Trump's Red Line.

[Deleted]

Well, luckily for the US, we are one of only a few countries able to stop ballistic missiles after they've been launched.

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You are aware this threat was present during the entire Obama administration right?

We have some capability to defend ourselves from missile strikes, but it is relatively limited.

[NYC17]

...How did we get to a point in this discussion where we are treating wiping out NK as the only option left? That's absurd.

We're not. Two people are.

[Toogoodman]

Trump is contributing the problem. He threatened a first strike of North Korea kept making threats. That's the basic facts of the discussion. Your ignorance of them does not excuse your assertions. It just puts them into focus.

You seem to have a problem reading what's actually written, and hell, apparently even have a problem reading what you yourself wrote. I have no problem going after the regime if they attack Seoul or any other ally. You can refer to my previous post as it covers the flaw in your conclusions pretty well.

Whether Trump has some of the best military minds, while comforting on a way, is utterly irrelevant as he's the one who makes the decision. I do so hope they'd tell him to go fuck himself, but that would remain to be seen.

Well then, i guess we agree on this, ill drop the pettiness

[PosPosPos]

You are aware this threat was present during the entire Obama administration right?

You are aware this is not the first time the far right created something to fearmonger over?

[Toogoodman]

You are aware this is not the first time the far right created something to fearmonger over?

I mean, I would usually agree that the military industrial complex over exaggerating threats around the world is a real big problem we have. But NK has been its own special beast for over 50 years, this is a bi-partisan, multinational problem, that we need to make sure doesn't escalate to total all out nuclear war between super powers. That's a little more nerve racking than Sadam getting me in my sleep.

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There are over 3 million innocent people there.

I don't think anyone wants the innocents to die, but collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect of war.Lets just hope we don't get there, NK needs to drop the pissing contest.

[NYC17]

I mean, I would usually agree that the military industrial complex over exaggerating threats around the world is a real big problem we have. But NK has been its own special beast for over 50 years, this is a bi-partisan, multinational problem, that we need to make sure doesn't escalate to total all out nuclear war between super powers. That's a little more nerve racking than Sadam getting me in my sleep.

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I don't think anyone wants the innocents to die, but collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect of war.Lets just hope we don't get there, NK needs to drop the pissing contest.

So does Trump. He's too much like Kim Jong Un.

For NK this isn't a pissing contest. To them it's their survival. That's the key difference between the two here.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

For NK this isn't a pissing contest. To them it's their survival. That's the key difference between the two here.

But that's the problem, they're trying to ensure their survival by risking provoking a war, the one thing that would pretty much guarantee NK would not survive.

[Vanyali]

But that's the problem, they're trying to ensure their survival by risking provoking a war, the one thing that would pretty much guarantee NK would not survive.

...no they're not.

They're threatening a war to get "bribes" to settle down, just as they've been doing for decades now. No one in NK's leadership wants to go to war because they know they'd lose nigh-instantly.

That you don't know the very floor of the situation is worrying.

[Toogoodman]

So does Trump. He's too much like Kim Jong Un.

For NK this isn't a pissing contest. To them it's their survival. That's the key difference between the two here.

NK is more than welcome to join modern society, but obviously their leaders will do anything to stop that. It ultimately is a pissing contest though, if they would stop the military aggression, most countries would just consider them a human rights nightmare, and they would have to deal with some sanctions (rightfully so), ultimately, this is by their design. Trump might look like a hot head, but i think its just sensationalism, i deal with people like him on a daily basis.

[Deleted]

The point was comparing you to someone who is capable of a normal thought process and how your deficiency in that regard makes you a perfect example.

There's not much for me to be afraid of, so once again your conclusions and accusations aren't based in reality, much like the scenarios you fabricated out of paranoia and fear, which you mistake for bravado. Understanding the ramifications for millions of people in the surrounding area, and wanting to avoid it at all costs, is pretty much what everyone who doesn't exhibit psychopathic tendencies is working towards.

You on the other hand...well I guess that puts you in the same category as Kim Jong Un...and Trump.

I definitely understand the ramifications. I want to do everything to avoid war as well. But we cannot wait for them to strike first, and the threat that they pose is larger than ever before. Do we need to strike right at this minute? No. We need to let our diplomats do their job first. But if and when they fail, when there is no path forward diplomatically, we cannot wait for the North Koreans to attack.

Doing nothing will get more people killed than getting in there first if and when the time comes.

[NYC17]

NK is more than welcome to join modern society, but obviously their leaders will do anything to stop that. It ultimately is a pissing contest though, if they would stop the military aggression, most countries would just consider them a human rights nightmare, and they would have to deal with some sanctions (rightfully so), ultimately, this is by their design. Trump might look like a hot head, but i think its just sensationalism, i deal with people like him on a daily basis.

NK's whole purpose in the past few decades was to become a nuclear power. As Kirby said, they are convinced the U.S. was intent on removing them from power. They're probably somewhat right about that. Their nuclear capability changes the equation. You, me, China, Russia, Trump, whoever, may not like it but that's the reality now. The rest of the world has to decide whether risk of nuclear war is worth a regime change.

Trump doesn't look like a hothead. He looks both figuratively and physically, like a petulant child who is incapable of grasping the enormity and responsibility of his role in this, and in the world. We have one of the biggest and whiniest bitches as commander in chief. That changes the equation too.

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I definitely understand the ramifications. I want to do everything to avoid war as well. But we cannot wait for them to strike first, and the threat that they pose is larger than ever before. Do we need to strike right at this minute? No. We need to let our diplomats do their job first. But if and when they fail, when there is no path forward diplomatically, we cannot wait for the North Koreans to attack.

Your previous posts disprove your declaration of what you claim to understand. You're just like "dear leader", you just aren't nearly as influential.

Sad!

[Breccia]

...How did we get to a point in this discussion where we are treating wiping out NK as the only option left? That's absurd.

Because some people have to defend their Cheeto Jesus.

No really, that's it. Even they can't defend the "why" NK has to be wiped out. They just heard "fire and fury" and choose to accept that it must be so. Incidentally, find someone else in Trump's WH that agrees with that sentiment. Tillerson sure doesn't.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

...no they're not.

They're threatening a war to get "bribes" to settle down, just as they've been doing for decades now. No one in NK's leadership wants to go to war because they know they'd lose nigh-instantly.

That you don't know the very floor of the situation is worrying.

I know what they want and what they're trying to do, which is why I didn't say they wanted a war, I'm saying that they're tactics are exceptionally poor. As you yourself said, they're threatening a war. But by the very policy of threatening a war you run the risk of provoking one, whether that is actually the goal or not. When your strategy revolves around constant threats and displays of military prowess and bravado, there's a limit on how much of that you can get away with before it backfires, especially when you're hurling threats at someone as stable, restrained, and non-impulsive as Trump (obvious sarcasm is obvious).

Brinksmanship is a shit policy, and the longer it goes on the greater the risks. They may have been empty threats when they began. They may be empty threats now. But when your goal is to see how far you can push the war line, sooner or later someone will make a mistake, and the results could be catastrophic regardless of what your intentions were.

[omeomorfismo]

lulz, before bush jr, then trump. next conservative president will claim that there are antimatter bombs on mars.
we can only hope to depose US as fast as possible

[Kronik85]

Never thought I'd agree with Trump on anything but as far as NK is concerned? NK can not be allowed to maintain or access a viable nuclear weapon, I never really thought that this would need pointing out but apparently this thread proves otherwise.

Hopefully the Chinese feel the same way and NK doesn't try to use SK as a bargaining chip.

[Deleted]

NK's whole purpose in the past few decades was to become a nuclear power. As Kirby said, they are convinced the U.S. was intent on removing them from power. They're probably somewhat right about that. Their nuclear capability changes the equation. You, me, China, Russia, Trump, whoever, may not like it but that's the reality now. The rest of the world has to decide whether risk of nuclear war is worth a regime change.

Trump doesn't look like a hothead. He looks both figuratively and physically, like a petulant child who is incapable of grasping the enormity and responsibility of his role in this, and in the world. We have one of the biggest and whiniest bitches as commander in chief. That changes the equation too.

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Your previous posts disprove your declaration of what you claim to understand. You're just like "dear leader", you just aren't nearly as influential.

Sad!

How so? I've claimed the same thing consistently.

With your logic though, my position has the most influence. Good to know that we'll do what needs to be done when the time comes.

[Deleted]

Remember this? LOL

[Breccia]

Never thought I'd agree with Trump on anything but as far as NK is concerned? NK can not be allowed to maintain or access a viable nuclear weapon, I never really thought that this would need pointing out but apparently this thread proves otherwise.

Hopefully the Chinese feel the same way and NK doesn't try to use SK as a bargaining chip.

I get what you're saying, and yes things didn't exactly go bad overnight (they escalated immensely in 6 months, but they didn't start from zero) but your post is self-contradictory. "Fire and fury" have nothing whatsoever to do with China negotiating a NK dismantle. What you're suggesting the Chinese do, and what Trump is saying, are opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Kronik85]

I get what you're saying, and yes things didn't exactly go bad overnight (they escalated immensely in 6 months, but they didn't start from zero) but your post is self-contradictory. "Fire and fury" have nothing whatsoever to do with China negotiating a NK dismantle. What you're suggesting the Chinese do, and what Trump is saying, are opposite ends of the spectrum.

I've not read Trumps comments or rhetoric on the matter, just I agree with the position that NK can't have a nuke no matter the cost. I do not want to see SK flattened and the whole ordeal will be over sooner and easier with Chinese cooperation.

[NYC17]

How so? I've claimed the same thing consistently.

With your logic though, my position has the most influence. Good to know that we'll do what needs to be done when the time comes.

Well it's good to see your penchant for delusion still stands.

Yes, you can hitch your addled mind to a certain idea, but you have very little influence on the action itself. So therefore you, are utterly irrelevant. I'm not surprised you need everything spelled out for you.