FBI conducted predawn raid of former Trump campaign chairman Manafort’s home

[Machismo]

It is a watch hunt and always has been. It's really the only thing Democrats care about now. Meanwhile NK is threatening to Nuke California.

Why can't the administration deal with both?

For a witch hunt, they do seem to be getting the administration to move the goalposts on what they were actually doing before and after the election. Remember when they claimed there was no contact with Russians? Remember when they claimed they were being transparent? Remember when they claimed they were not talking about sanctions? Remember when they claimed that it wasn't collusion?

Good times.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Oh hey another self-described centrist that is anything but. Great, we didn't have enough of those here.

We don't? You want more of us? Cause I can get more of us. We keep a supply in the back, you just have to be careful picking us up to bring out so you don't cut your hands on the edge.

[Lenonis]

Obviously I was referring to the obstructionism absent an agenda portion of the behavior. However, don't let me stop you from missing that because you should probably get used to it for a good while longer.

I'll type slower this time.

The GOP, themselves, admitted that after being a party of obstruction they didn't know how to govern.

The Dems, now, are a party of obstruction. It still remains to be seen if they will not have a platform to govern on when they get back into power.

Your insistence in turning this into some sort of false equivalence not only requires twisting my statement into something it isn't, but also is ignoring that this is how the GOP are describing themselves, not my words.

[callipygoustp]

Proof that the Manafort story is all just smoke and mirrors: how easily detracted the thread is due to, mostly, one person bringing up Hilary.

[Lenonis]

We don't? You want more of us? Cause I can get more of us. We keep a supply in the back, you just have to be careful picking us up to bring out so you don't cut your hands on the edge.

The more the merrier. I still have some shreds of sanity left, so let's go for it.

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Proof that the Manafort story is all just smoke and mirrors: how easily detracted the thread is due to, mostly, one person bringing up Hilary.

First -- let's just go ahead and file this in the "not sure if serious" category. I hate that I can't tell anymore who is posting seriously.

But, assuming that this was a 100% honest statement -- I'm not quite sure why a MMO-C thread should be any sort of measure about a legal investigation. Seems kind of an odd argument to make.

[Hobb]

Quick!! It's time for Faux News to come to the rescue and do another story on Hilary.

[Toogoodman]

Yeah, you've been saying Dumbass Dump is innocent... you're even using the exact Alt-right talking point of calling it "The Trump Campaign" instead of "Donald Trump" but yet focus on Hillary by name.

Get over it, Deplorable, you've fucked up your fake cover story like all the other pretend "Woke Indipendents" here...

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1) So, a crime of conspiracy with a hostile foreign power absolves one's guilt when dealing with another more immediate hostile foreign power?

Actually, in this context, we are talking about "the trump campaign" since it would be a large majority of individuals working with the organization, I don't understand while you're being so hostile and toxic.

Love this hostile flaming, its amusing the only way you cant try to make a point is to be a crass as possible.

[Toogoodman]

Oh hey another self-described centrist that is anything but. Great, we didn't have enough of those here.

Maybe youre just so far to the left, you can even see center anymore, people like you are coming off like authoritarians these days.

[Draco-Onis]

Please point to official statement from GOP organization that they don't know how to govern.

“Moving from an opposition party to a governing party comes with growing pains. And well, we’re feeling those growing pains today. ” He would later expand on that, saying — “we were a 10-year opposition party where being against things were easy to do. You just had to be against it. And now, in three months time, we tried to go to a governing party where we have to get 216 people to agree with each other on how we do things. And we just weren’t there today. We will get there, but we aren’t there yet.”

[Lenonis]

Maybe youre just so far to the left, you can even see center anymore, people like you are coming off like authoritarians these days.

Not really. And I'm probably being unfair, but I'm really tired of our crop of "independent" posters basically copying and pasting right wing talking points.

For example, no real centrist would consider the current investigations as witch hunts. A centrist would say "Trump himself is not yet implicated in any crime, however there have been questionable decisions made by his campaign. These should be investigated to ensure no wrongdoing. Any crimes found should be prosecuted, and if no crimes are found this should be put to rest. However at this point in time there is not enough evidence to implicate Trump himself on any of the current list of charges."

That, mind you, is nowhere NEAR the same claim as it's all just a witch hunt. The whole "witch hunt" thing is a right wing talking point. Centrists don't use right wing talking points.

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Please point to official statement from GOP organization that they don't know how to govern. LOL, "when they get back into power". Good luck with that.

Yup, keep making the same mistake the Dems did in 2016. Nothing could possibly go wrong with being overconfident and not being willing to admit the flaws in your own house. Nothing at all.

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“Moving from an opposition party to a governing party comes with growing pains. And well, we’re feeling those growing pains today. ” He would later expand on that, saying — “we were a 10-year opposition party where being against things were easy to do. You just had to be against it. And now, in three months time, we tried to go to a governing party where we have to get 216 people to agree with each other on how we do things. And we just weren’t there today. We will get there, but we aren’t there yet.”

Thank you. For some reason google wasn't being helpful.

[Toogoodman]

Not really. And I'm probably being unfair, but I'm really tired of our crop of "independent" posters basically copying and pasting right wing talking points.

For example, no real centrist would consider the current investigations as witch hunts. A centrist would say "Trump himself is not yet implicated in any crime, however there have been questionable decisions made by his campaign. These should be investigated to ensure no wrongdoing. Any crimes found should be prosecuted, and if no crimes are found this should be put to rest. However at this point in time there is not enough evidence to implicate Trump himself on any of the current list of charges."

That, mind you, is nowhere NEAR the same claim as it's all just a witch hunt. The whole "witch hunt" thing is a right wing talking point. Centrists don't use right wing talking points.

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Yup, keep making the same mistake the Dems did in 2016. Nothing could possibly go wrong with being overconfident and not being willing to admit the flaws in your own house. Nothing at all.

Look how this is being handled though? If Maxine Waters didn't become a meme on that morning talk show last week, this wouldn't look like a witch hunt. I just hate when stuff like this takes away from actually world issues happening. If there is damning evidence, so be it, do what needs to be done. Pence would 100% be a better president anyways, i'm not a huge fan of most of his views, but at least hes not completely retarded. Whats the issue here, is that if this raid ends up with nothing of value, that's going to look really bad, and is essentially going embolden the rights assertions against the left, treading carefully is a must.

A right wing talking point would be to completely dismiss this as FAKE NEWS and continue to talk about how Trumps not on a vacation, im bringing up legitimate concerns for the governing power of our leadership on both sides.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

“we were a 10-year opposition party where being against things were easy to do. You just had to be against it."

Someone needs to keep a notebook with this, and McConnell's lovely

One of my proudest moments was when I looked at Barack Obama in the eye and I said, ‘Mr. President, you will not fill this Supreme Court vacancy.'

and swat Trump across the face with it any time he whines about the Democrats being obstructionist.

Also this bears repeating:

For example, no real centrist would consider the current investigations as witch hunts. A centrist would say "Trump himself is not yet implicated in any crime, however there have been questionable decisions made by his campaign. These should be investigated to ensure no wrongdoing. Any crimes found should be prosecuted, and if no crimes are found this should be put to rest. However at this point in time there is not enough evidence to implicate Trump himself on any of the current list of charges."

[satimy]

You do know infaction's are not instant and take a mod to see the post/report right? He made that post 6mins ago. At lease give it 10mins before screaming mods are bias.

Is all you and your ilk got left is to scream mod bias?

Will you apologize for this post when it never gets infracted?

[Lenonis]

Look how this is being handled though?

Right. Look how it is being handled. Not how it's being politicized or talked about by politicians.

Maxine Waters isn't the special counsel. She's not issuing subpoenas. She's just politicizing it. Which...is what politicians do.

Mueller has been very quiet about everything and there (as far as I know) haven't been many leaks from his organization about the investigation.

Politicians using events to score political points doesn't make the investigation itself a witch hunt. And given all the lies, the meetings with Russians that were not disclosed, and all of the really sketchy behavior by just about everyone involved how on earth anyone can call it a witch hunt or a nothingburger is just beyond me. It may end up being nothing and no charges come from it but hot damn people are acting really guilty about just about everything. And the lies. C'mon. This is was not a campaign acting ethically, even if they didn't end up breaking laws.

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You're trying to take a nuanced statement where he explained some difficulties that make total sense and turn it into exactly what you want to hear to support your bias.

Let's be honest here. Ryan could have said, verbatim, "We don't know how to govern" and you'd be saying the exact same things.

Let's just hypothetically agree that he didn't say the GOP doesn't know how to govern. Their actions (or lack thereof) since Trump took office is proof enough.

[Lenonis]

I guess they'll just have to take you up on your challenge and pass something you really don't like.

*shrug* That's how politics works. Obviously I don't want the GOP to suddenly remember how to pass their agenda...but I've also stated a loooooooooooooooooong time ago on these forums that we, as a country, would probably be better served in the long run by having one of the two parties actually being able to implement their agenda so we can finally find out if it actually works or not. Sometimes I think the desire to have a bipartisan solution sometimes just ruins everything. The ACA is the best example of that. Because, contrary to propaganda, it was crafted by both parties.

[Toogoodman]

Right. Look how it is being handled. Not how it's being politicized or talked about by politicians.

Maxine Waters isn't the special counsel. She's not issuing subpoenas. She's just politicizing it. Which...is what politicians do.

Mueller has been very quiet about everything and there (as far as I know) haven't been many leaks from his organization about the investigation.

Politicians using events to score political points doesn't make the investigation itself a witch hunt. And given all the lies, the meetings with Russians that were not disclosed, and all of the really sketchy behavior by just about everyone involved how on earth anyone can call it a witch hunt or a nothingburger is just beyond me. It may end up being nothing and no charges come from it but hot damn people are acting really guilty about just about everything. And the lies. C'mon. This is was not a campaign acting ethically, even if they didn't end up breaking laws.

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Problem is, politicians are the ones who initially pushed for the special investigator, that's how it happens. After they were done holding hearings on capital hill, the pushed for the special council, and special council obviously found that this might be worth pursuing. Problem is when those same politicians come out and say stupid shit like that, and then hard on the right for doing the same thing they just did. Its just absolutely mind boggling at this point, our elected representation across the board is acting like petulant children.

There are real issues at hand that, in the mean time, are not being addressed at all, like a way to help the dwindling middle class make ends meet, healthcare reform to make it so everyone is insured at a reasonable price... etc. Zuckerberg came out with talking point about a UBI, that would fantastic if we could start to pursue something something like that, or universal single payer healthcare... But, alas, were stuck in this quagmire hellhole that is American politics.

[Deleted]

Coincidence or conspiracy ?

National Enquirer: Donald Trump Advisor Paul Manafort Caught Up In Sick Sex Scandal!
https://twitter.com/NatEnquirer/stat...98930166177792

[Rukh]

Also the day after, Trump started attacking the current new FBI director on twitter, calling for his firing.

[Toogoodman]

*shrug* That's how politics works. Obviously I don't want the GOP to suddenly remember how to pass their agenda...but I've also stated a loooooooooooooooooong time ago on these forums that we, as a country, would probably be better served in the long run by having one of the two parties actually being able to implement their agenda so we can finally find out if it actually works or not. Sometimes I think the desire to have a bipartisan solution sometimes just ruins everything. The ACA is the best example of that. Because, contrary to propaganda, it was crafted by both parties.

I agree with this, if the right implement their agenda, and it explodes, maybe people will wake the fuck up. The ACA is a monster of its own self-destruction, its just too complex and there are WAY too many exemptions for the system to ever actually work. Couple that with the fact that people who are young and health can just pay a cheap fine at the end of the year, and youve got yourself a disaster. We need to just go to a single payer healthcare system that circumvents the need for insurance companies in the healthcare market.

[callipygoustp]

First -- let's just go ahead and file this in the "not sure if serious" category. I hate that I can't tell anymore who is posting seriously.

But, assuming that this was a 100% honest statement -- I'm not quite sure why a MMO-C thread should be any sort of measure about a legal investigation. Seems kind of an odd argument to make.

Not serious at all. Meant to ding both the idiots that continue to deflect with "Hilary" and those who are easy distracted by the "but Hilary" comments.