Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Ummm, no. Even cavemen humans had empathy. They wouldn't just kill another simply because the were unusual, especially since they traveled with family and a mother/father still had a familial bond with the autist. The biggest proof I have for this theory is that Autism still exists... If we killed every autist back in the day, their genes would have been wiped out by today.
    Is it a dominant or recessive or X/Y linked trait? If it isn't a dominant trait, you can't wipe it out that way. It's also multi gene linked so it definitely doesn't work that way.

  2. #182
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Having anti-social tendencies in an entirely social species would not be favorable evolution
    I have found this only applies to normal humans amongst our own we can do it flawlessly.

    I would like to see how well you excel being flung into Pakistan or India or japan with no prep time or prior knowledge.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Mutation does not mean negative though it means welll a mutation a random difference

    And frankly it is human social norms that give us difficulty not so much our own abilities or lack their of. Hell as I have said before amongst other autistic people we socialize flawlessly if only because we seem to have the same in built social values abd tendencies
    Exactly.

    It's funny how logic, reasoning and genius is always held in high regard and always attributed to factors such as gender or race, but when it comes to Autists, we're intelligent "despite" our diagnosis...

    Aspergers for example, often comes with the exceptional ability to focus on 1 field without growing tired. That alone would be seen as a magnificent feat if a normie was capable, but when it comes to Autism, it's "a side effect" or some shit...
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2017-08-09 at 06:42 PM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    So having a full-time job is the only way to gauge how a human lives? That survey hasn't exactly asked every single person with Autism, including those undiagnosed with it.

    And there are many MANY people with high functioning autism, that have never been diagnosed and are living perfectly normal lives with jobs and families. It's like some say, a diagnosis can be in equal parts a blessing and a curse.

    Plenty of non-autists have difficulties coping in this our society as well. Doesn't automatically mean that everyone's as hapless as the myth says about Autism as a collective...
    Having a full time job means they live fairly independently and don't rely on a lot of help. It means they are functioning enough to hold down a job, and by extension, should have no problem taking care of themselves.

    Now, for your second point of them not asking everyone, that is Not how statistics work. If they asked everyone, it would take years to track them all down. That doesn't include having to actually see if they will answer, which with autism, doesn't go too well in a lot of cases. The statistics for employment is probably one of the easier things to come across.

    High function autistics usually do live perfectly normal lifes. That is why they are called High Functioning.

    You final statement holds no bearing on this discussion. It doesn't matter how those who don't have autism handle or cope. This is specifically is in relation to how those With autism function and if they are the next evolutionary stage for humanity. Which, I don't believe they are given the limitations that most of them have.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  5. #185
    Autism, in this day and age, is a diagnosis that is pretty broad and encompassing, to the degree of doubtlessly being given to a lot of people that aren't truly autistic. Not entirely surprising, most eras have some catch-all that has too wide a spectrum, be it because it is easy, 'popular' or what have you. I mean, imagine treating depression like autism, ie give everyone with even a tendency a full-blown diagnosis...talk about a new and sudden global epidemic. Either way, fact of the matter is that actual autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, and without the slightest shred of a doubt a clearly detrimental state. Which is nothing weird nor catastrophic really, loads and loads of people live with some sort of disorder or other, but pretending that it isn't a clear dysfunction is just straight out ridiculous.

  6. #186
    Legendary! Zecora's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Where the Zebras roam!
    Posts
    6,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The study linked clearly shows that it's not due to people having Autism, but due to how the workplaces are shaped and the social aspects. That's very in line with everything I've seen in my years since getting the diagnosis. My issues with school were never about the intellectual parts, I excelled far beyond children of my age on those areas, but neurological and social aspects made it so that I had very little energy left for anything else.

    Sorry, we still don't have some sort of "proof" that people with Autism are lesser on principle.
    Who is saying that they are lesser on principle? Or was that an attempt at strawmanning my argument?
    -People with Autism however, does not excel beyond "normal folks", except when they get the work environment that suits them perfectly. But guess what? Everyone excel in a work environment that suits them perfectly.

    People with Autism are not lesser, but nor are they more. They are simply different, with different needs. In the right environment it might be beneficial, in the wrong environment it is detrimental.

  7. #187
    Deleted
    The following is just an opinion. Hell, not even a well informed one.

    While yes, some (/most?) autists seem to be a lot more intelligent overall, they seem to have a severe problem in the social aspects of life. Which are very important to actually being a successful 'human' (people gathering around you, getting your genes into the next generation and so on).

  8. #188
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Is there any way you can put that into language?
    I left the hospital figuring nothing had happened: I was thinking to myself, What kind of crazy fool was I to think that I was gonna do this TMS and suddenly the world was gonna change? But then I got in the car to go home, and I turned on my iPod and it just hit me that the music was real and alive. It had a power and clarity I hadn’t experienced before, and I started thinking about who the song was written for and what it was about. After that, I just saw this brilliant clarity of the music. And I realized that was probably what had made me so successful as a sound engineer.

    Do you understand now what was happening?
    TMS modified my emotional response to what you might call ordinary situations. I often put it this way: You might be crossing the street and you fall and you skin your knee. I’d say, “Come on, get up!” The very best advice I could give is come on, get going, this car could run you over. People would see my practical response as cold and emotionless. After TMS, I’d look at you and wince at your skinned knee. I never did that before. And I now realize that wincing at your skinned knee is the response most people have. I still have the autistic response, but I’m also aware of what you might now call the “empathetic response from personal experience.” People can tell you about something a million times, and it won’t mean anything to you until you experience it. That said, it’s important to understand that I always had the ability to feel your pain. Like, if you were my girlfriend and you got sick I’d be more worried about you than your own mother. I was always that way. But no matter how much I cared about you, if we were crossing the street, you fell down and skinned your knee, I would see your skinned knee and I would say “Come on, we gotta get going,” or I would say, “Here, I’ll get you a Band-Aid.” I would have a practical response. The way I responded is no reflection on how much I cared for you. I could care for you with all the love in the world and still I’d respond practically.

    So you don’t feel you’d really lacked empathy before?
    No. In fact, studies have shown that autistic people feel things more deeply, not less at all. It’s true that autism is described as a condition with communication impairment. And so, to be diagnosed with autism, you must have an impaired ability to speak, to understand speech, or to understand or convey unspoken cues.

    So what exactly happened when you first stated noticing emotional cues?
    It hit me all at once with an intensity that was absolutely scary. As I lay in bed, trying to fall asleep, the world started revolving. I became afraid I was having a stroke. I’d close my eyes and the world would spin like I was drunk, about to throw up. I don’t drink or do drugs. So for me to have the world spinning like that made me think there was something terribly wrong. And not only was the world spinning, I would close my eyes and I would have these really vivid, half-awake, half-asleep dreams that were a collage of things from the past and things that had just happened that day and they were just so real. The experience was so unsettling that I woke up and wrote a 1,500-word missive to the scientists describing what had happened. Then, finally, I was able to fall asleep.

    The next day at work I looked at one of my colleagues and I thought to myself: He has the most beautiful brown eyes. That’s the type of thought I simply do not have. I don’t usually have any comment on your eyes because I don’t look in anyone’s eyes. For me to look in your eyes and say that they are beautiful is totally out of character. When I got to work I walked into the waiting room, as I usually do, and I looked at everyone and there was this flood of emotion. I could see it all: They were scared and anxious and eager, and never in my life had I seen something like that. I had to step out of the room because I didn’t know how to cope. It felt like ESP. Maybe in the past I used the logical part of my brain to look at people around me and carefully analyze. I figured out situations using logic. So I had that powerful ability but now the screen of emotion was turned on, too.

    So it wasn’t the positive outcome you had hoped for?
    I’d fantasized about really understanding other people’s emotional world. I imagined a world of sweetness and light — emotions I’d been missing all my life. But when it happened, the reality showed me what a fool I’d been. Now, I could look at a person and sense all their emotions. And most were downers. Maybe they were upset about whether they could afford to fix their car. Maybe they had kids in college and tuition was choking them. Maybe they were jealous or angry. It was enough to make me burst into tears over ordinary auto service-department conversations. I couldn’t talk and I had to go outside. I must have come across as so very weird.





    http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04...imulation.html

    Guy describes his life after a temporary cure was administered to him.
    As I have long said the "cures" others want for us do more harm then good

    Also i think it is not that we lack empathy but that instinctively we pull a Vulcan abd suppress it because it is too much for us

  9. #189
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I touched on this in a different post:

    Problem with too much socializing is that you get the issues we see today. "Group think", and "Us vs Them". Like everything it has a place... but after a certain time, with certain changes (like we do with technology) hyper socialization seems to be causing issues.

    But for people that are horrible at it... the amount of socializing I do online is just right... In fact for me, you could say the hyper normalizes into "just about right".

    - - - Updated - - -



    Same. I go through hypotheticals of past or future events, or start thinking about coding... or philosophy.. or Trump....(not in a good way... lol)

    Meditation has actually helped me with that though. I used to stay awake for hours most of the time trying to fall asleep. Now, if I practice mindfulness, it only takes me about 30 or 40 min.
    Bar being COMPLETELY wiped same here.

  10. #190
    As someone who is autistic, I don't think it's an evolutionary advantage at all. I guess it may have contributed to my interest in tech, but I don't think it's really ever helped me at all. I'm lucky in the sense that it doesn't affect me too badly and I am able to socialize with people I know, but going out somewhere where there's a bunch of people that I don't know and don't know how to talk to is like jumping into a pool of ice water. It sucks, and while I do eventually get used to it, I'd rather not be in that situation at all.

  11. #191
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    16% of people with Autism have full-time work. I wouldn't say that is indicative of people with Autism being able to "excel beyond normal folks".
    With technology we excel not the majority of humans

    Conversely we can socialize PERFECTLY amongst others with autism.

    It is the social stress that can make it so hard (along with all the drugs abd various attempts to cure us over our lives damaging us in a very big ways). Plenty of us can work/excel..the places to do so due to normal humans is one thing holding us back.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I did not see it as a disorder at all... mostly because I had no clue I was actually not "acting normal" until it was pointed out. Or that most people do not in fact think in images...

    To me it is both a blessing and a curse... I can do stuff at work that other people can't, and conversely they can do stuff I can't. (Like socialize).

    But I do find it interesting that the people that I normally speak with (randomly I found out) that are really big into Humanity+/Transhumanism are also on the spectrum.

    And visiting other places, most people that have HFA/Asperger's value logic over emotion. Which I find refreshing.
    Indeed.

    Not lesser, not superior, just different to people without the condition.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Absomal View Post
    I believe that Autistic people are actually evolved humans designed to merge with advanced technology to take us into the future. They no longer need social interaction, they focus on logic and reason to make their decisions which is extremely beneficial to a society where technology is improving and knowledge is expanding...I believe autistic people were a secret evolutionary change that was ultimately designed to merge with advanced technology. It seems very strange, it almost feels like nature knew we would rely on technology in the future and gave us a mechanic that allowed us to do exactly that.
    I think it is an interesting possibility and would not be surprised if that is the case; The TV show Touch (with Keifer Sutherland) explored this possibility and one of my favourite bands released an audio story/book dealing with it as well. It is available here for 15$ and may be available on streaming services as well; I haven't checked. (https://hoursthestory.bandcamp.com) It is an engaging and thought-provoking foray into autists and how they are treated.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    Someone who screams at loud noises and is unable to communicate and pickup social cues in an incredibly social species, isn't evolved. It's an impairment. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest.
    Generally, as people with autism age, the symptoms become less apparent and we are able to more easily integrate into society. I don't think I've actually freaked out over a loud noise since I was like 7 years old. They still make me jump really bad when I'm not expecting them, but other than that it's not a big deal. When it comes to communicating and social cues, I can communicate quite effectively, but sometimes take a bit longer to pick up on social cues than a normal person would. While it is an impairment, at least it's one that (usually) doesn't affect you your entire life, and you can learn the skills that you naturally lack to make up for it.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    Someone who screams at loud noises and is unable to communicate and pickup social cues in an incredibly social species, isn't evolved. It's an impairment. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest.
    You're right, people displaying such difficulties are impaired.

    But as you would know if you were being honest in seeking information, all Autism doesn't fall under 1 single sheet of characteristics.

  16. #196
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    So having a full-time job is the only way to gauge how a human lives? That survey hasn't exactly asked every single person with Autism, including those undiagnosed with it.

    And there are many MANY people with high functioning autism, that have never been diagnosed and are living perfectly normal lives with jobs and families. It's like some say, a diagnosis can be in equal parts a blessing and a curse.

    Plenty of non-autists have difficulties coping in this our society as well. Doesn't automatically mean that everyone's as hapless as the myth says about Autism as a collective...
    This too. Philosophy is where I excel modern society seems to despise such things and then whole college requirement..like you cannot study on your own.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This is true. Among other Autistic I can communicate very well. And we tend to have the same outlook on things/on the same page about stuff...

    Anecdotal and a small sample size but this has random people with Asperger's taking the political compass test:

    Add me to left wing libertarian list lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exystredofar View Post
    Generally, as people with autism age, the symptoms become less apparent and we are able to more easily integrate into society. I don't think I've actually freaked out over a loud noise since I was like 7 years old. They still make me jump really bad when I'm not expecting them, but other than that it's not a big deal. When it comes to communicating and social cues, I can communicate quite effectively, but sometimes take a bit longer to pick up on social cues than a normal person would. While it is an impairment, at least it's one that (usually) doesn't affect you your entire life, and you can learn the skills that you naturally lack to make up for it.
    Best way i can describe it is like running an emulator..Sadly complete with taking extra energy to do.

  17. #197
    Legendary! Zecora's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Where the Zebras roam!
    Posts
    6,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    With technology we excel not the majority of humans

    Conversely we can socialize PERFECTLY amongst others with autism.

    It is the social stress that can make it so hard (along with all the drugs abd various attempts to cure us over our lives damaging us in a very big ways). Plenty of us can work/excel..the places to do so due to normal humans is one thing holding us back.
    So basically just what I said. People with authism thrive and succeed in environments (work or otherwise) that is perfectly suited to them...and so does everyone else. You are different, not better, not worse, just different (in a specific way).

    Which in many ways makes you just like everyone else, because we are all different from everyone else.

  18. #198
    Autistic people are "evolved" humans in the exact same way that colorblind humans are evolved: They aren't. They have a developmental fault. It may help them focus their skills in different areas and be highly productive given the right situation, but it is not an evolution.

  19. #199
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,577
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    I'm not saying autistic people can't contribute or lead productive lives. Just that none of the symptoms associated with autism would be beneficial in a prehistoric human tribe. Ergo, the OPs opinion that it's an evolutionary adaptation is bunk.
    See you are looking back not now abd forward.

    One advantage socially I have noticed is a far lower to borderline nonexistent sense of tribalism. So we notices differences less often allowing a FAR more egalitarian world view

  20. #200
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,080
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Problem with too much socializing is that you get the issues we see today. "Group think", and "Us vs Them". Like everything it has a place... but after a certain time, with certain changes (like we do with technology) hyper socialization seems to be causing issues.

    But for people that are horrible at it... the amount of socializing I do online is just right... In fact for me, you could say the hyper normalizes into "just about right".
    I'm not talking about "hyper socialization". You are.

    By social creatures I am referring more to the concept of "it takes a village" or "no man is an island". Humans are, biologically, not very functional as individuals (in the way that say, a puma is highly functional as an individual of its species). They are designed to function best in groups.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •