By not having children and saving up the money instead will make you rich?

[McTroll]

It won't be long before only the poorer people are the only ones having children and the middle class does off. We'll be India in a few decades.

What's your plan, then? Make procreation mandatory for all?

Throw me in jail, then!

[Kubaal]

Just speaking for myself here, when my wife and I had our first child we were under the impressions it would drain us financially. How ever, we didnt account for the money we would be saving by not going out to eat 4-5 times a week and the $250-$300 bar tabs each weekend. Since having kids we have both matured and are much more observant in how we spend and actually have managed to save more money.

[Eyechewer]

I have to say, for me this post really hits home.

My main goals in life are financial. I genuinely dislike working. I hate driving to work, the traffic, the annoying bosses, the stress. I honestly don't understand how people live their entire lives working 9 hours a day.

My goal is early retirement. I know I am not suited for this kind of life and every action I take leads me towards this goal. Including the decision to have kids. To me, financial independence is significantly more important.

I know many people say money is not everything in life. But I honestly can't imagine a scenario where I am working 9 hours a day and I'm happy. I can't fathom such a situation. On the other hand, I think I can live happily without kids. I'm 28, don't have kids, and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. On the other hand, I am currently working 9-10 hours on a good day, not withstanding 3 hours commute. And it's hell. It's absolutely destroying my mental well-being and happiness.

On topic: Yes. Not having kids will increase your chance to achieving early retirement. The best way to go is maximizing earnings (get high paying job, bust ur ass for a couple of years) and decreasing your expenses (don't have kids. never eat out. Buy only the bare essentials. Live with a partner (or partners).

[Elim Garak]

Just speaking for myself here, when my wife and I had our first child we were under the impressions it would drain us financially. How ever, we didnt account for the money we would be saving by not going out to eat 4-5 times a week and the $250-$300 bar tabs each weekend. Since having kids we have both matured and are much more observant in how we spend and actually have managed to save more money.

Good for you, but there are a lot of people who don't waste their money on that even without kids and for them kids would be a drain.

[Independent voter]

We religious people have lots of kids.

When I'm on my death bed surrounded by family we'll see who is the rich one.

[McTroll]

We religious people have lots of kids.

When I'm on my death bed surrounded by family we'll see who is the rich one.

I've seen people with families die alone. Your family is only as good as the way you treat it.

[Illana]

Science is international and there's enough of physics majors. Soldiers are volatile.

It's irrelevant to the state. If giving money to parents for kids wasn't doing what it's supposed to do the state would STOP doing it.

Seeing is silly. It does take a genius to KNOW how it really is. People see things all the time. Doesn't make those things real or true.
Unstable environment is also likely to produce a strong willed person who doesn't need a safe space at the campus.

Social values change with time. Fuck them.

P.S. The atoms that constitute my body will continue existence in bodies of the first intergalactic travelers from planet Earth if they ever gonna make it to that stage of development. My atoms came from the stars and will go to the stars. And your descendants probably won't be among those travelers.

You're so naive, you believe the state doesn't benefit from creating people dependent on it to perpetuate their rule? You create people dependent on you, they continue to vote you in. You give them benefits while raking in money from donors that you push legislation for.

I gave you statistics, it's not just me "seeing" things. That's verifiable evidence. Your statement that an unstable environment produces a strong willed person is also just pulled from nowhere, where is your evidence for that?

[Elim Garak]

I know many people say money is not everything in life.

The things that will make you happy cannot be bought with money, but if you don't have any and are busy working 9 hours a day you just don't have time to LOOK for those things in the first place.

So money -> happiness. IF (and it's a big IF) you are smart about it.

The phrase "money is not everything in life" is a lie designed to make you work 9 hours a day on a shitty job, unless someone suggest you to go live in woods - then they are right.

[Eyechewer]

We religious people have lots of kids.

When I'm on my death bed surrounded by family we'll see who is the rich one.

So you are willing to work until you are 65 (current min retirement age iirc), living paycheck to paycheck, barely scraping by, just so for a few months before you die your kids will visit you once every other week?

You chose...Poorly.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Physics majors are educated and can question the state's decisions.

Soldiers are grunts, they do what the state orders them to do.

And a state without educated scientists is going to be left with only grunts who will be easy targets for a tactical drone strike, grunts who will be unable to advance without complicated transport and supply chains, and grunts who will be standing in rags while their opponents are in state of the art battlegear.

Science is international and there's enough of physics majors. Soldiers are volatile.

So there's no value in being on the cutting edge of new technologies or science self-sufficient? Science is international but without people who know how to interpret and extract value from scientific findings/advancements you are still going to lag behind, to say nothing of technological advancements a state might not share as it gives them some sort of advantage. Stealth bombers exist and the technology is out there but to actually do anything with it requires an infrastructure of scientists and engineers with the technical know-how and and capabilities to manufacture the components and then assemble them.

[Elim Garak]

You're so naive, you believe the state doesn't benefit from creating people dependent on it to perpetuate their rule? You create people dependent on you, they continue to vote you in. You give them benefits while raking in money from donors that you push legislation for.

That's basically my point. Thank you for finally kinda "understanding" it.

[Raqubor]

I know what you wrote. Enjoy your life as a evolutionary dead end.

Thank you , I will.

[Doctor Amadeus]

If you are unable to understand that 0.0000000000000000000001>0 then continuing to argue with you is pointless.

You are correct because I don't subscribe to fantasy that rely on probability of being over people by sheer idiocy.

[Eyechewer]

The things that will make you happy cannot be bought with money, but if you don't have any and are busy working 9 hours a day you just don't have time to LOOK for those things in the first place.

So money -> happiness. IF (and it's a big IF) you are smart about it.

The phrase "money is not everything in life" is a lie designed to make you work 9 hours a day on a shitty job, unless someone suggest you to go live in woods - then they are right.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not ashamed of it. I'm miserable. My life is not good. I'm not happy. The reason I'm not happy is that I'm slaving away for most of my waking hours, or on the way to or from to work. I will not be happy until that situation is changed. If not having kids will get me closer to that goal, then that is a price im happily willing to pay.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Oh my goodness i think you just became my new favorite person.

As much as inhabiting the stars was and will always be a dream of mine. This unfortunately is a not a possibility due to current status Que. In order to one day inhabit the stars. The world as a WHOLE would need to drastically change its way of thinking let alone the way our market and economy is now. So in other worlds NEVER GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN.

So yeah if we ever have dreams of our descendants inhabiting the stars. The world as a whole must scrap the current system and create a new one. Having children will not make this a reality.

Yes and how comical that these are the same people like many others who will go on to tell other people what to believe or not to believe based on some delusions of their own of chance and what not.

Don't get me wrong everyone is generally capable of weakness including myself, but notions that some how my genetics or humanity is some sort of magical fucking concept is a delusion I don't share.

[Illana]

That's basically my point. Thank you for finally kinda "understanding" it.

How is that your point? I was saying the state SHOULDN'T encourage people to be dependent on it.

[Elim Garak]

So there's no value in being on the cutting edge of new technologies or science self-sufficient?

Value is subjective. No point in discussing it. State doesn't need as many physicists as they can get. Not to mention they don't even need to produce them in the state. They can import them (see USA). And cutting edge technologies? See China.

Science is international but without people who know how to interpret and extract value from scientific findings/advancements you are still going to lag behind, to say nothing of technological advancements a state might not share as it gives them some sort of advantage. Stealth bombers exist and the technology is out there but to actually do anything with it requires an infrastructure of scientists and engineers with the technical know-how and and capabilities to manufacture the components and then assemble them.

You are confusing scientists with engineers. I don't think a Stealth bomber technician is a scientist nor is the pilot a physics major more like Air Force Major.

- - - Updated - - -

How is that your point? I was saying the state SHOULDN'T encourage people to be dependent on it.

My point is state does that because they see value in it. State doesn't care if you want them to stop doing it. You premise was that parents who "use" that are being nefarious - they are not. They do what state wants them to do for the nefarious reasons of state.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Having kids isn't something that should have an economic barrier of entry. It should be a basic human right just like an actual livable wage. It won't be long before only the poorer people are the only ones having children and the middle class does off. We'll be India in a few decades.

Yes, yes it actually should if you can not provide for your young they suffer, some don't go into those situations knowing and of course there should be options that are humane and prudent, but yes, whatever wheelhouse you belong a person inability to actually function as a parent is pretty damn crucial. Financial is one burden. If you aren't an adult you shouldn't have kids.

Being an adult means being able to at least provide for yourself.

[Deleted]

We religious people have lots of kids.

When I'm on my death bed surrounded by family we'll see who is the rich one.

Why do people always think their kids will be supportive of them?
Many children hardly visit their parents after moving out, even when their parents are at old age and living ing a nursing home.

Kids simply take up all your free time, most of your money and in todays economy (and even more so in the future) they might live with you forever, depending on your country.

[Independent voter]

I've seen people with families die alone. Your family is only as good as the way you treat it.

That's very true, I'm no saint but I don't think I'm a complete asshole either.

So you are willing to work until you are 65 (current min retirement age iirc), living paycheck to paycheck, barely scraping by, just so for a few months before you die your kids will visit you once every other week?

You chose...Poorly.

Yeah, I'm willing to do all that. With our combined pay we have a pretty good income but she's going to quit.

I think more than giving up money is the time required, but that's okay.