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  1. #161
    However, I disagree with how Blizzard is making her go about things. Jaina Proudmoore is a good strategist and experienced diplomat. A cunning diplomat in her position should have been able to change people's minds and take subtle actions to ensure a war occurs that drives the Horde to extinction. Instead, she seems to be acting just as bluntly as Garrosh now in her pursuits. There's not enough cunning, strategy or diplomacy. At least, not enough to do credit to her character.

    At least, that's my opinion.
    Agreed. For as much as I do like Jaina, they have made her dumber in certain aspects to fit a plot necessity. "Well we wrote Jaina as mistrusting the Horde? Rather than develop her more and show how we NEED to work with them against the Legion, let's have her throw a tantrum and abandon what is basically her second home, Dalaran."

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word "neutral": (adjective) not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others

    The one who is twisting the word is definitely not me. All dragonflights are considered to be neutral since they didn't choose either of the sides. And if you think that this is a false statement then arguing in this thread is quite a pointless thing.
    And unless the Blues were at war with something (but why would they if they are neutral), Garrosh by attacking the dragons couldn't take part in a fight between Blue Dragonflight and some other faction or give assistance to said other faction. Congrats on shitting on your own argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Having a big foothold on Night Elven land and stealing and destroying what is sacred to them is not a problem at all but a single keep near the borders of a Horde territory is outrageous and the answer to this is to blow an Alliance city to hell.
    Wat? @Zulkhan didn't mention either of them being outrageous or not a problem. He was talking about the differences in their status. Running out of arguments so you have to delve into emotional (and fallacious) flailing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    The factions were never at peace. You could clearly see that even in W3 when Thrall told Grom to leave the Humans be but nonetheless he attacked them. Even vanilla's opening cinematic mentions this that during the third war they united to defeat the legion but in the end the union was broken. They were in a cold war until wrath. After that the tension became increasingly hostile and constant war erupted at several places until Theramore went to hell and full war happened between the factions.
    The factions were never at peace? Then what's this War Crimes subplot about the peace treaty between the factions, regulating things like status of Azshara? As for the Second War, it ended with total victory of the Alliance and the surrender of the Horde. That automatically leads to peace. Which is why the Alliance-Horde War that lasted from WotLK till MoP wasn't called the Second War. If there was no peace, it'd be simply a continuation of it. Cold war also supports there was peace, because hello genius, a cold war means the powers are not actually at war. You really like destroying your own arguments. And you're clearly way out of your depth here. And full war started already in Cata.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    I keep seeing that you use this logic time to time. To a politician or someone who is running a company this is laughable because they know that if a member of a group does something wrong the whole group is responsible for that. A Horde leader chose a demon as an ally and that demon was responsible for the death of so many Alliance soldiers. Casualties of the Horde is none of Alliance business. If you do not answer this firmly then one can always abuse this by choosing a pawn and do all the things he/she wants through him/her and put the blame on that pawn "it wasn't my fault, he did it ... that guy over there".

    This is how all the groups, companies and organizations work. One single worker ignores a part of his work and it results in disastrous consequences to the other ones other than the company ones. Even though it is the worker's fault but the company is responsible for that and must pay for it. It has always been so and is and will be.
    A leader is responsible for their underlings. Not their traitors. Again, Wrathgate happened after Coup in Undercity. So your moronic flailing about a pawn does not apply, since Varimathras' forces already made it known they no longer consider themselves to be part of the Forsaken but a separate and independent group before the Wrathgate. In your amazing comparison about a company, Varimathras and people loyal to him were no longer Horde's workers by that time. They quit. And a company is not responsible for its former employees any more than a political organization is responsible for their former members.

    But OK, since you want to delve into idiocy, the Alliance chose to ally themselves with a kingdom whose king wiped out most of humans and Thalassian Elves. And then tried to wipe out all life four years later. Obviously Alliance is responsible for all of that. And modern Darnassus is responsible for Azshara. Draenei are responsible for Eredar.
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    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  3. #163
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    Aside from Varian, Anduin, Magni and Sylvanas -- she is the most naturally evolved Leader character in Warcraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  4. #164

  5. #165
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Yeah, Garrosh attacking the dragonflights who didn't choose any side or any place in Alliance vs Horde conflict is completely justified. So if two persons fight with each other and you choose not to interfere and one of them punch you in the face and picks your brass knuckles to use it against the other, that guy did nothing wrong according to you. So any faction can attack the neutral ones and steal their artifacts to use it against the other. If one day Jaina kills her way to the pillars of creation and use it against the Horde, she did nothing wrong then because it is the neutral ones that must not bother with Alliance and Horde but Alliance and Horde can kill them anytime they like.
    Once again your argument makes no sense. He didn't say what Garrosh did to the blues was fine, but it does not break neutrality. Your argument was that the Horde broke neutrality first by stealing the iris which even if the Alliance did know that the Horde had done it, had already invaded the Barrens under Jaina's orders, already breaking Jaina's initial "neutral" stance on the Alliance vs Horde war. If Jaina went after the pillars of creation to use against the Horde she definitely wouldn't be breaking neutrality because once again the Alliance and Horde are already at war again with Genn and Rogers attacking the Forsaken fleet in Stormheim.


    I'm definitely not supporting what Dwarves did. If they attacked the Tauren camp with no reason they are 100% guilty and Horde dealing with them is completely justified. Also Horde presence in Ashenvale was never welcome. The Warsong continued to harvest lumber in the Night Elven land during what you call "peace time". Since the invasion of Orcs during the third time and the death of Cenarius they continued their conquest of the forest and silverwing was organized to stop them.
    The Dwarves did have a reason, they wanted to dig up the ground. The horde presence in Ashenvale was briefly allowed in between burning crusade and the wrathgate incident, much like how Northwatch was allowed in the barrens. It did not make Either the barrens or Ashenvale neutral areas though.


    Sure, when an entire army was wiped out by a deadly plague, you investigate it through diplomacy. Just like how Horde investigated Northwatch by invading Ashenvale and send Theramore to hell.

    Considering Putress killed both alliance and horde, and it took Jaina all of a minute to figure out that they were no longer part of the Horde.

    Also once again you have your facts twisted around, Northwatch attacked the barrens before Garrosh invaded Ashenvale, and Theramore was destroyed because it was the source of all the Alliance troop movements into the Barrens. It wasn't like the wrathgate where it was traitors to a faction , it was the Alliance versus the Horde.


    When a group declares to be neutral in Alliance vs Horde conflict, that means it doesn't want to be part of that war. But when you attack that group and kill its members you obviously committed a crime.
    which has nothing to do with your outright false claim that the Horde broke neutrality first. A claim which can be easily disproven by reading.



    It became Horde land 1 year before WoW but before that it was a neutral land according to CoH. I'm not saying that, the book is saying it.
    And once again, it was neutral in the sense that the Jaina was allowed to have a base there without it being destroyed.


    The answer to this is the same topic of responsibility. I'm not gonna go through that again because its pointless it seems. Also its not 10 years, its 4 years after the third war.

    Correct, I was thinking of the scourge invasion of Quel'thalas which is 15 years ago at this point in time.

    and again, its sheer idiodicy to claim an entire faction is at fault for the actions of traitors.


    No you still didn't get the point. This whole argument is about an Alliance keep in a resourceless desert creating trouble time to time. Yet Horde's advance in Ashenvale which is plenty resourceful and started before Northwatch and continued until the end of MoP seems less important than this.
    You are making it abudntly clear you really have no idea in hell what you are even arguing about now. The Alliance invading the barrens has nothing to fucking do with Garrosh attacking Ashenvale. Notice how to try to downplay the fact that The soidlers of Theramore and Northwatch were trying to take over the Barrens, but it somehow isn't bad because Garrosh tried to take over Ashenvale.

    She should have thought about that when she allied with Varimathras. She is responsible for that.
    and again, the actions of a traitor do not reflect that of a faction, no one ever has thought that way. You can continue to repeat your bullshit, but it wont change that literally no one has ever thought that way.


    Either you live in a third world country or another planet. Because for example if you buy something that upon opening it out of the box, it explodes, that company is responsible for that whether they were involved or not. They must keep everything in check.
    you're right, I live in a third world country where an entire company staff isn't lynched when something goes wrong. Do you even think before you post?


    Yet Arthas's betrayal was not expected but clearly a dreadlord was obvious? and it could be hindered?
    Your entire shit reasoning says that the Alliance are responsible for the actions of Arthas, because mauradin should have stopped him from grabbing frostmourne, but he didn't.


    How fucking far will you go? Do you even remember where you started? Saying that Barrens wasn't Horde territory and therefore couldn't be invaded by the alliance, to now trying to say that every member of a faction is responsible for a traitor.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-08-10 at 03:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    What does killing the blues have to do with Alliance invading the barrens? and what does "Horde broke neutrality with the alliance first by attacking the blues" even mean? You still haven't understood what neutrality means.
    That's fucking hilarious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Well most of you were all the time complaining that Alliance had a base in Horde territory and I brought the Ashenvale example and CoH which says that barrens was neutral one year before WoW.
    And as you showcased before, your idea of what Barrens' neutrality entailed misuses neutrality and outright goes against lore of Bael'modan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Peace is a strong word. What you are saying is ceasefire. Conflicts were still continuing. And the first act of war started when several barrels of deadly plague was thrown from the forsaken camp on the Alliance army and killed everyone in that place. It totally makes sense that Varian launches an attack on Undercity either it be part of the Horde or not.
    You still don't know what a ceasefire is. If it was ceasefire Second War would still be ongoing. It's not, by Blizzard's most canon material. And no, the first act of war was Onyxia burning Ogre outposts in Dustwallow. Come on, be consistent. What happened to Alliance's responsibility for its workers?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    You know the thing is that most of you were explaining Theramore's destruction, Ashenvale's invasion and other why-Horde-invaded reasons with just a single keep in a useless desert.
    Yeah, no. Hold back with that straw. No one explained Horde's attacks with just a single keep. They were explained with the soldiers of that keep attacking and capturing Horde territory before the Horde made any offensive actions after the post-WotLK ceasefire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Also Gnomregan and Thaurissan didn't wipe an entire Horde army. It was a problem of their own. Other than that you examples are completely irrelevant. We were talking about when someone or somebodies are accepted to be part of an organization or a group then if one of the members cause damage or harm something or someone out of that organization, the whole organization is responsible and the harmed person can complain and the organization must pay for that. When Horde accepted an undead race with a leader that had a demon (not even an ordinary demon rather a dreadlord) as an ally, they accepted all the responsibilities caused by this new group at any occasion.
    Exactly. So when Alliance failed in any oversight of their ranks and let the daughter of Deathwing infiltrate the highest echelons of power in the most powerful Alliance kingdom, they exhibited criminal negligence and as such are responsible for her destroying Stonemaul villages. Given how that happened before WoW actually started, it's the first known aggression after W3. From the Alliance. And since there was obviously no peace between factions, Onyxia, on Alliance's behalf, resumed the Second War Also, Thaurissan's Dark Iron Dwarves attacked the Horde too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    again, neutral in the sense that the UVG confirmed that the Barrens was Horde land, but that the Horde allowed Alliance to be there in Northwatch. Neutral as not in open warfare with the humans there on Horde land.
    Exactly. A territory that's not sovereign cannot be neutral in any other sense. But apparently that's too complicated for some. Like the people that use only the dictionary definition of neutrality (cherrypicking one of many in the process) and they fuck up even that, destroying their own argument as a result.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Yeah, Garrosh attacking the dragonflights who didn't choose any side or any place in Alliance vs Horde conflict is completely justified. So if two persons fight with each other and you choose not to interfere and one of them punch you in the face and picks your brass knuckles to use it against the other, that guy did nothing wrong according to you. So any faction can attack the neutral ones and steal their artifacts to use it against the other. If one day Jaina kills her way to the pillars of creation and use it against the Horde, she did nothing wrong then because it is the neutral ones that must not bother with Alliance and Horde but Alliance and Horde can kill them anytime they like.
    You have some really magical eyes, for they see a ton of things that weren't actually there. Correcting your ignorant lie that Garrosh broke neutrality by attacking the Blue Dragonflight (particularly that he broke it first, since you made that lie only to deflect blame from Jaina) is not justifying Garrosh's actions or claiming that the playable factions can attack neutral factions without any consequences. @Zulkhan outright said in what you just quoted there that him doing so gave the blues a valid reason to side with the Alliance and that this wasn't even a breach of the Blue Dragonflight's neutrality due to the circumstances. Top notch lack of consequences and simply infinite justification.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Agreed. For as much as I do like Jaina, they have made her dumber in certain aspects to fit a plot necessity. "Well we wrote Jaina as mistrusting the Horde? Rather than develop her more and show how we NEED to work with them against the Legion, let's have her throw a tantrum and abandon what is basically her second home, Dalaran."
    At this point Jaina degenerated to Alleria after the initial second war, she is basically broken, but unlike Turalyon, Kalecgos is not willing to pick up the pieces.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Anyway this thread was about liking Jaina. She was once a young person who was trying hard to make peace between Alliance and Horde. I remember when in W3 she used to say "I hate resorting to violence". She even opened the way for Horde to kill his father in order to reach her goal which was peace. I really liked her character before MoP but that doesn't mean that I hate her now. She went under unfortunate events in both WoW and the disagreement of writers in real world. I feel really sorry for this character now. She didn't deserve all these things Blizz did to her. I hope in the future they gonna revive this character to who she once used to be.
    They decided to go full circle with Jaina. She had never suffered as severely as her father and tried to lecture him and people like him, but now that she finally understands their pain she realizes how naive she has been and that she really isn't stronger than him. The admirable ones are the ones who suffered through tremendous loss but are still willing to tolerate the other side, but those kind of people hardly exist.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    I'm not going to continue this discussion because you cannot have a logical discussion with rude people obviously. When you are bringing references and the others do not accept it and tries to alter it and later get mad and rude, at that time you need to end the discussion because it is better for everyone. I only pointed out to a reference which clearly mentioned that one year before WoW barrens was neutral. Yet people who don't like that do not accept that because 100% of everything that happened is Alliance's fault and Horde never did anything wrong at all.
    The guy who doesn't understand the word neutrality, and thinks that an entire group of people should be held accountable when they have traitors, unironically attacks his own argument when its used against him, and tries to downplay the Alliance invasion of the barrens by saying its worthless, takes it to the extreme and says that because his awful lines of reasoning were pointed out, that the only conclusion was that people were really just saying the Horde was blameless, when no one fucking said that at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  10. #170
    Old God Shampro's Avatar
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    Kinda. I used to in her Wrath era, I prefer the role of the warmonger for someone like Rogers and Genn. Jaina's just seems all over the place. But eh, I expect Blizzard to shove her down our throats soon, and ''prove her right'' while simultaneously killing off another Horde faction leader. It's only natural, am I right?

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    When a group declares to be neutral in Alliance vs Horde conflict, that means it doesn't want to be part of that war. But when you attack that group and kill its members you obviously committed a crime.
    And that has nothing to do with your initial deflection on Jaina's behalf that sparked this subtopic. That one still remains incorrect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    The answer to this is the same topic of responsibility. I'm not gonna go through that again because its pointless it seems. Also its not 10 years, its 4 years after the third war.
    Good choice. Because it won't get any less illogical and irrelevant even if you repeated it a billion times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    No you still didn't get the point. This whole argument is about an Alliance keep in a resourceless desert creating trouble time to time. Yet Horde's advance in Ashenvale which is plenty resourceful and started before Northwatch and continued until the end of MoP seems less important than this.
    Now you move the goalposts to how many resources are present in each zone? Yeah, not very effective. And Horde didn't start shit in Ashenvale in the context that was being discussed. You know, about how Alliance broke the post-WotLK ceasefire first by attacking Northwatch. If Horde was active at the time in Ashenvale, the ceasefire would be null and void and yet The Shattering didn't mention it. Even though it covered the events of Ashenvale quite a lot.

    But even if one tried to deliberately ignore that context, like you, and wanted to pin any conflict on the Horde, then sorry, but Alliance has equivalent incursions into Horde territory in the same time period, without any specification which happened first. Stuff like Dwarves digging in the Barrens and Mulgore or Stormpikes in Alterac,


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    She should have thought about that when she allied with Varimathras. She is responsible for that.
    And the Alliance is responsible for Fandral and Benedictus attacking Thrall


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Either you live in a third world country or another planet. Because for example if you buy something that upon opening it out of the box, it explodes, that company is responsible for that whether they were involved or not. They must keep everything in check.
    They don't have to keep their former employees in check. Especially if said former employees are out of their control because they formed a military group. You know, things that'd be actually equivalent in your company comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    Yet Arthas's betrayal was not expected but clearly a dreadlord was obvious? and it could be hindered?
    There were plenty hints of the path that Arthas has chosen. Starting with skull kneecaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Northwatch_Expeditionary_Unit the modern look of struggle for peace.
    Surely you must realise that the Barrens (and Durotar as well, TBH) are HUGE, lore-wise, and it probably takes weeks to traverse them. The Horde didn't and doesn't control the whole zone. Even in-game it is a contested zone, much more so in the lore. So the Alliance wasn't really looking to pick a fight with the Horde in the Barrens, they just wanted to carve out a piece of the mostly uninhabited cake for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxos View Post
    When you play the game of MMOs, you win or you go f2p.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    At this point Jaina degenerated to Alleria after the initial second war, she is basically broken, but unlike Turalyon, Kalecgos is not willing to pick up the pieces.
    No, I don't think so. I think Jaina can actually heal herself but she just keeps getting fucked every time she starts. Whether it's actually the Horde's fault (Theramore/Divine Bell) or just that's how the Alliance perceives it (Varian's death), every time she begins to come around something happens.

    After Theramore is destroyed, she still argues against kicking the Blood Elves out of Dalaran, struggling with forgiving the Horde, but then reneges on it when the Divine Bell is stolen.

    After MoP during Garrosh's trial, she realizes that her hatred of the Horde is destroying her from the inside and stops festering on it, rather just distrusts them instead. And says that she was glad she didn't become like Garrosh and was happy she was stopped with the Focusing Iris from destroying Orgrimmar and even says that the Horde isn't Garrosh.

    And in WoD, for as much shit as Horde fanboys give her, even in WoD all she does is say, "I'm watching you." She certainly has the authority and the political power of the Kirin Tor to have stopped Khadgar if she really wanted to when he defies her.

    All of that forgiveness is, again, erased when Jaina, and the Alliance, believe the Horde left the battlefield at the Broken Shore and that caused Varian's death.

    I'm not going to continue this discussion because you cannot have a logical discussion with rude people obviously. When you are bringing references and the others do not accept it and tries to alter it and later get mad and rude, at that time you need to end the discussion because it is better for everyone
    As I said, you were wasting your time. Now you see.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2017-08-10 at 05:17 PM.

  14. #174
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Surely you must realise that the Barrens (and Durotar as well, TBH) are HUGE, lore-wise, and it probably takes weeks to traverse them. The Horde didn't and doesn't control the whole zone. Even in-game it is a contested zone, much more so in the lore. So the Alliance wasn't really looking to pick a fight with the Horde in the Barrens, they just wanted to carve out a piece of the mostly uninhabited cake for themselves.

    The problem being the Barrens was horde land (the barrens is indeed large), regardless if orcs lived on every square foot of it or not. And the northwatch was specifically picking a fight the the horde, multiple times in fact, leading up to cataclysm where they got reinforcements from theramore and started rapidly spreading, until they were all killed by Garrosh's march.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-08-10 at 05:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    I'm not going to continue this discussion because you cannot have a logical discussion with rude people obviously.
    But you totally can have a logical discussion with people who patently misunderstand core concepts to said discussion even when they themselves make an argument about the definitions and who outright deliberately misrepresent what they quote by projecting some nonsense no one said onto it to make some weird appeals to emotion. A classic "to see the mote in one’s neighbour’s eye but not the beam in one’s own" situation right here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    When you are bringing references and the others do not accept it and tries to alter it and later get mad and rude, at that time you need to end the discussion because it is better for everyone.
    I like it how you're pretending to have some moral high-ground when you just described your behavior in posts #174, #179 and #184 (and these are just the more recent examples).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajidehak View Post
    I only pointed out to a reference which clearly mentioned that one year before WoW barrens was neutral. Yet people who don't like that do not accept that because 100% of everything that happened is Alliance's fault and Horde never did anything wrong at all.
    Look at all the people saying that Horde did nothing wrong and that the Alliance is to be blamed in 100%. You know, speaking of altering. Then again what else is to be expected from someone who tried to claim Garrosh "broke neutrality first" by attacking the Blue Dragonflight, which makes no sense whatsoever, just to deflect blame from Jaina (again speaking of your posts, the last bit of that paragraph applies really well here) in a completely different event with different neutral factions. Also, your understanding of what Barren's supposed neutrality would entail remains terrible. And the fact remains that a non-sovereign territory cannot be neutral in any legal sense of the word, leaving stuff like Friendly's explanations.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2017-08-10 at 06:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  16. #176
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    As I said, you were wasting your time. Now you see.
    Because someone who is blatantly wrong is the victim here, how dare we not see his headcanon.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The guy who doesn't understand the word neutrality, and thinks that an entire group of people should be held accountable when they have traitors, unironically attacks his own argument when its used against him, and tries to downplay the Alliance invasion of the barrens by saying its worthless, takes it to the extreme and says that because his awful lines of reasoning were pointed out, that the only conclusion was that people were really just saying the Horde was blameless, when no one fucking said that at all.
    All of this is invalid because you were mean
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    No, I don't think so. I think Jaina can actually heal herself but she just keeps getting fucked every time she starts. Whether it's actually the Horde's fault (Theramore/Divine Bell) or just that's how the Alliance perceives it (Varian's death), every time she begins to come around something happens.
    .
    She might be able to pull herself up, but her recent actions still very much remind me of Alleria lashing out in grief, hate and disbelief that others don't see it her way, so I'd still say she is quite broken right now

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Surely you must realise that the Barrens (and Durotar as well, TBH) are HUGE, lore-wise, and it probably takes weeks to traverse them. The Horde didn't and doesn't control the whole zone. Even in-game it is a contested zone, much more so in the lore. So the Alliance wasn't really looking to pick a fight with the Horde in the Barrens, they just wanted to carve out a piece of the mostly uninhabited cake for themselves.
    Other than your inaccurate portrayal of the Barrens through and through (other than size), that group was directly involved in fighting the Horde in multiple zones... Not just Barrens for that matter. They even invaded Durotar, about which no one can claim was not entirely Horde in anything resembling reason, where they made plans to invade Orgrimmar itself. And even before (though shortly) that specific subunit of Northwatch forces was created, Northwatch troops attacked Horde outpost of Crossroads and captured Horde outpost of Honor's Stand. Not exactly uninhabited land, is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    As I said, you were wasting your time. Now you see.
    Time for support group session of the AS-VS then. I can already see the topic. "More than one person disagreed with my posts containing factually incorrect headcanon, logical fallacies, misrepresentation of other people's posts and misunderstanding of the words being used. It's the proof that TEH CIRCLEJERK is real and not a fantasy of mine that I tell myself to reassert that I can never be wrong!".

    Why don't you ironically describe yourself to the letter while insulting some moderators and get banned again, so that we can be spared your grand wisdom?


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Because someone who is blatantly wrong is the victim here, how dare we not see his headcanon.
    One day the invisible hand of TEH CIRCLEJERK will turn against you and your SDF brothers won't lift a finger to help you. We will see who'll laugh last!


    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    After Theramore is destroyed, she still argues against kicking the Blood Elves out of Dalaran, struggling with forgiving the Horde, but then reneges on it when the Divine Bell is stolen.
    Where she was a massive hypocrite because she personally aided the Night Elves first. I bet that was somehow Horde's fault too. Poor struggling Jaina. So fucked over.


    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    And in WoD, for as much shit as Horde fanboys give her, even in WoD all she does is say, "I'm watching you." She certainly has the authority and the political power of the Kirin Tor to have stopped Khadgar if she really wanted to when he defies her.
    That's precisely why the last few threads about Jaina are just flooded with arguments about her behavior in WoD. Wait... Also, Jaina had zero authority to do anything because the political structure of Dalaran gives nothing special to the leader other than representative role. They don't even have a tiebreaker vote. And as Kel'thuzad's example shows, when Dalaran is not led by a power-abusing authoritarian, the leader can't act alone when stopping a Council of Six member in particular either.


    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    All of that forgiveness is, again, erased when Jaina, and the Alliance, believe the Horde left the battlefield at the Broken Shore and that caused Varian's death.
    A belief that's fueled by nothing but their confirmation bias and willful ignorance on their part, given how you can see the Legion's spaceships bombarding, the speed with which the demons appeared at what was the very backline of the Horde's positions after they retreated and the gunship offering an aerial view to the situation up there. And that's just in regards to supposed feelings of general betrayal. The idea that they caused Varian's death is abject horseshit since there's no logical link whatsoever between the Horde retreating and Gul'dan dropping the Fel Reaver.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2017-08-10 at 06:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Other than your inaccurate portrayal of the Barrens through and through (other than size), that group was directly involved in fighting the Horde in multiple zones... Not just Barrens for that matter. They even invaded Durotar, about which no one can claim was not entirely Horde in anything resembling reason, where they made plans to invade Orgrimmar itself. And even before (though shortly) that specific subunit of Northwatch forces was created, Northwatch troops attacked Horde outpost of Crossroads and captured Horde outpost of Honor's Stand. Not exactly uninhabited land, is it?




    Time for support group session of the AS-VS then. I can already see the topic. "More than one person disagreed with my posts containing factually incorrect headcanon, logical fallacies, misrepresentation of other people's posts and misunderstanding of the words being used. It's the proof that TEH CIRCLEJERK is real and not a fantasy of mine that I tell myself to reassert that I can never be wrong!".

    Why don't you ironically describe yourself to the letter while insulting some moderators and get banned again, so that we can be spared your grand wisdom?




    One day the invisible hand of TEH CIRCLEJERK will turn against you and your SDF brothers won't lift a finger to help you. We will see who'll laugh last!




    Where she was a massive hypocrite because she personally aided the Night Elves first. I bet that was somehow Horde's fault too. Poor struggling Jaina. So fucked over.




    That's precisely why the last few threads about Jaina are just flooded with arguments about her behavior in WoD. Wait... Also, Jaina had zero authority to do anything because the political structure of Dalaran gives nothing special to the leader other than representative role. They don't even have a tiebreaker vote for what we know. And as Kel'thuzad's example shows, when Dalaran is not led by a power-abusing authoritarian, the leader can't act alone when stopping a Council of Six member in particular either.




    A belief that's fueled by nothing but their confirmation bias and willful ignorance on their part, given how you can see the Legion's spaceships bombarding, the speed with which the demons appeared at what was the very backline of the Horde's positions after they retreated and the gunship offering an aerial view to the situation up there. And that's just in regards to supposed feelings of general betrayal. The idea that they caused Varian's death is abject horseshit since there's no logical link whatsoever between the Horde retreating and Gul'dan dropping the Fel Reaver.
    If your head was any further up the Horde's ass, you'd be the next Chris Metzen. kys

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2017-08-10 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

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