"Gogogo!!!", or "You pull, you tank"

[Stoeger]

Don't give a shit as a dh, monk etc but if you pull it against a dk while taunt, wraithwalk, gorefiends and grip are on cd. Your problem.

[Tennis]

Situation: RDF, tank going at his pace, rogue decides it's not fast enough, goes pulling packs, tank gives no f*cks, rogue dies, rogue throws tantrum, tank says "You pull, you tank".


Question: Who's in the right?

Tank. He was pulling too slowly.

[Nazrark]

When you start tanking, your mindset will shift to hate the shit out of people who pull for you.

I had someone get mad at me in LFR for doing a ready check before pulling. Then initiating a pull timer. It's LFR, nobody is going to any of the mechanics. But we can get huge amount of dps off the bat if everyone knows when to go balls to the wall.

I typically let people die if they pull.

[Daedius]

100% the rogue

[huth]

Just to correct you for the fun of it, that's not true. In fact early MMOs had classes that specialized in pulling mobs, Monks in everquest for example.

WoW inherited some of this with MD/Tricks but in reality WoW is the first MMO where it became a tank's job to pull. In the really old MMOs your tank sits on his ass in the proper position while a mob is pulled to him. It was both required and necessary because mobs weren't easy to position and you needed a faster class then a tank to pull while the healers where hiding from the AoE damage. Or if you wanted to split up mobs that chained together you did it with classes who could pull, drop aggro on one and then continue to pull the other.

So yea, about that concept... It's really a concept invented in WoW. Not one that predates it.

And what would they have done back then if somebody pulled without being asked to? Probably not a pat on the back.

[Anastacy]

Just to correct you for the fun of it, that's not true. In fact early MMOs had classes that specialized in pulling mobs, Monks in everquest for example.

Specific classes pulling, and creating "camps" where most of the group remained stationary while mobs were pulled, was really an unintended consequence of other design choices, though. It did afford for creative play on the players' side, such as "split pulling", but "pulling classes" weren't something designed by the developers of EQ, and in many cases, anyone with a SoW could effectively pull for their group.

[Spl4sh3r]

I'd say it depends. Did he pull a group that was right next to you, or a group ways off? If it is the first then the tank is at fault for not tanking, if it was the latter then obviously it was the Rogue that was at fault.

[crakerjack]

I could care less if some dps wants to run ahead and pull stuff. I'll try to catch up and tank the mobs they pull assuming they're towards our objective and not unneeded trash. I like to speed clear dungeons because I've been doing some of them for almost 13 years.

[Hannya84]

The "you pull, you tank" mentally is out of touch and just retarded thinking.

It's the tanks JOB to tank shit REGARDLESS of how it was aggroed. That kind of mindset is unacceptable in LFD and LFR imo.

That's just not true. Its not the Tank's job to martyr themselves for a Raid.

If the Tank and Healer aren't comfortable or able to survive huge pulls, then it's down to the Rogue to shoulder the repair bills.

Tanks and Healers aren't there to be bullied. It's not as if the tank is being slow out of spite. I can only assume one is part of the problem if you think the Tanks should pay the price for the DPS being obnoxious.

[Zyky]

They're both idiots

How in anyway is it the tanks fault? Please...the rogue decided to be impatient so he died. Got the repair bill he deserved.

On a side note, a decent rogue wouldn't have died as he would have used tricks but whatever I guess.

[Archonite]

I'd go with the same rule i follow for healing. I heal damage, not stupidity. If someone through their behaviour shows to be a liability, i wont waste time or mana on them. Same would go for a tank, although i dont have as many tanks as i do healers. If you pull by mistake, ill try to pick it up. If you show some intelligence when pulling, by bringing mobs to me while making sure the healer and i have the gear to deal with it, ill pick them up. If youre just being impatient and stupid, youre a liability and ill let you die. DPS tends to have a poor understanding of how many mobs i can tank with my gear, or how well the healer can deal with it. Some packs have a ton of random aoe damage, fears or heals that require interrupts or other mechanics that make chain pulling impossible. DPS also seems to be without unit frames most often, ignoring dead/afk/dc/out of range or out of mana players.

Of course without context its hard to say who was wrong in the situation described by OP, but i would favor the tank over the rogue, especially considering the rogue has tricks and vanish at his disposal. Its also many times easier to get aggro on a pack when youre the one pulling it while having all your abilities available.

[Yunaqt]

Healer is shit for not able to keep up a DPS in LFD, it's not hard unless he literally pulled the world which I doubt.
Tank doesn't need to follow the rogue around to collect from him, he/she's free to just pull the next pack but it's not hard to just throw a taunt or a ranged ability to generate a bit of threat.
I pull extra things in dungeons, but I know I wont die when I do so even if the tank doesn't pick it up.

[fixit]

Think of it like this: If you are the tank driving a car and steering through traffic, and a passenger pulls on the wheel or leans over and pushes the accelerator, would you be happy? Do you think this is a cool thing to have done because you are impatient and want to get there 1 minute faster? Let the tank do his thing. Not happy?, go play your tank and be as fast and cool(in your own head) as you want.

[cparle87]

Tank is right. Even if he is slow as fuck, let him do his thing. Most tanks don't go slow on purpose just to be obnoxious, they either are newer tanks or are waiting on CDs, or just aren't that good.

Pulling tons of extra shit and spamming "go" is very obnoxious, no way around it. Maybe pull a couple of extra mobs that you think you can handle if you really can't spend the extra 5 minutes on the dungeon, but don't bitch because you die since it's completely your fault.

As a longtime tank the point often isn't how many mobs there are but what those mobs do. Take the first hallway in BRH for instance. In that pull there are multiple healers, multiple mobs who throw up stacking dots, and multiple mobs that make the other mobs take way less damage. If you're reckless and pull that entire hall, unless you're overgeared you could be halfway to the second boss by the time you finish those two pulls. I've had groups wipe on that trash before people run out of stuns/interrupts, mobs are being healed to full and taking less damage, and the healer goes oom from healing and dispelling off the stacking dots until he's dry.

If the mobs are pretty damn harmless, like the long hallway between the rock-dodging staircases with nothing but melee'ing mobs with no cleaves, ranged attacks to los, shields, heals, etc. Hell yeah I'll grab the whole thing in one go, loot, and move on.

[MrFiddleswitch]

This entirely depends on the content that is being run, but my basic philosophy on tanking is I tank at the pace where I can maximize CD usage while ensuring that the healer can keep up. If a dps does not like that pace, and pulls stuff, I explain that I am pulling at the pace that I feel comfortable with and ask them nicely to let me pull. If they continue to do it, I let them die, and then remind them that I asked them nicely to let me pull if they bitch. If they continue beyond that, I vote kick (or remove if we're doing mythics)

My main reason for this is simple. That dps has no idea what my skill level as a tank is, nor do they know the status of my CDs. If they pull mobs I do not have the tools to tank, then the entire group wipes - and that's just a pointless waste of time for everyone involved.

That being said, I also speak to my healer when in a dungeon and ask them to let me know if I can push more or if they need me to hold back.

[Matt0193]

The thing that pisses me off is when you're keeping a quick pace while rarely staying out of combat and even then it's usually for a quick MB or someone, probably the healer, said brb, and the DPS still go ahead and pull the next 3 packs for you. It's also usually a really shitty dps that does it, either because they don't know what they're doing or they're a Rogue/Hunter doing it while not Tricks/MD'ing you.

The Tank is in the right. The Rogue's wrong.

[Skylarking]

Also still in 2017: "why don't more people want to tank??". Everyone wants to have fun in dungeons, I as a tank only have fun if I am in control of the pulls. If you think I'm too slow you are free to lobby the rest of the group to get rid of me but please don't intentionally ruin my fun.

So you enjoy "controlling" pulls that you vastly overgear?

[Xargoth6634]

If I'm the tank, that rogue's going to spend a lot of time corpse running.

[ReleaseDay]

What was the healer doing?

I'm with this guy. Blame the healer!

[nothingsjim]

The rogue is wrong, the tank is being a kid.

We have no idea how fast or slow the tank is actually going through, he could be really slow, but then that's another story.