ToS Trinkets for Affliction, Which are actually best in real time?

[Kirroth]

A note on the topic of crappy Tomb trinkets: if you get one, don't vendor it!

Remember when they did a big pass buffing a lot of the under performing NH trinkets? There's decent odds it'll happen again. So throw that trinket in the bank and maybe it'll suddenly get a lot better.

[Inshabel]

Fuck Arcanocrystal, I've coined J'im every goddamn time he was up and nothing, piss poor design to overbudget a trinket so bad that a 860 version will outclass 915 Kil'jaeden drops and then make it drop from a raidboss that's only up every 8 weeks. Fun!

[Pozhinat]

High TF arcano and Whispers prolly still bis. if only everyone were so lucky to have guldan on farm.

[Tolian]

What I read (haven't confirmed it personally) is that for Afflic, all that procs it is Drain Soul ticks. So rather than pop it as part of your opening salvo you want to put up DoTs and cast your UA and then pop it so it lines up with your channel phase.

I can confirm that this is not the case. It will proc off our DoT ticks. It also seems like it might proc off the pet's casts as well. Here's a log of me using it recently:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...93&view=events

Note the time stamps for when "Spectral Blast" hits. Seems like I got procs off Agony, Corruption, Doomguard attacks, etc. The time when the additional attack hits doesn't always line up with another ability hitting, but I'm guessing those fractions of a second are related more to lag than anything else. At any rate, the point is that it will clearly proc off more than just DS ticks.

[Lulbalance]

High TF arcano and Whispers prolly still bis. if only everyone were so lucky to have guldan on farm.

Everyone does have at least Guldan H on farm, just lfg. If you can't get a group chances are you're IL isn't high enough for it to make real difference anyways.

This is in no way a defence of shitty TOS trinks, js you have access.

[Deleted]

Thanks Terryn, I really needed that *walks of a cliff*.

880 Whisper + 890/socket metrognome

Guess I'm stuck with my recently dropped 915 Terror .

[Moggie]

I have a 930 Tide, 945 KJ trinket, and another one I cannot remember offhand (don't have owl and only one in raid without cause...ugh). I'll still use my idiotic 860 arcano and 925 Gul'dan trinkets... even the other one...from 2nd boss in NH whose name I cannot remember, even its trinket outshines every TOS trinkets. So silly

[Powerlamer]

Hey guys just a quick question about trinkets:

What I have is a
900 stats tick int/crit
970 Kj lego
900 DK Hellfire

If I sim with raidbots I always get Kj + Stat stick, but I am afraid for single target that would not be true.

Advice?

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[Biomega]

Sounds about right. KJ leg trinket is very powerful, it's just it being a legendary that nobody wants to use it (other legendaries simply do too much).

Also, stat sticks are VERY good for many classes. There's a reason Arcanocrystal beats mythic ToS trinkets.

[Powerlamer]

Sounds about right. KJ leg trinket is very powerful, it's just it being a legendary that nobody wants to use it (other legendaries simply do too much).

Also, stat sticks are VERY good for many classes. There's a reason Arcanocrystal beats mythic ToS trinkets.

Cheers for the answer, so I take depends on my leggos and I only have the head/trinket/sephuz/crafted shoulder so not much really to choose

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[Biomega]

Cheers for the answer, so I take depends on my leggos and I only have the head/trinket/sephuz/crafted shoulder so not much really to choose

Sephuz is amazing if you can proc it (e.g. M+), Helm is almost universally awesome. I guess Helm + trinket should do fine until you get something better, I don't think the shoulders are better. But you can sim all the combos if you want more data.

[vaeevictiss]

I dunno, i have a bunch of trinkets, 865 arcano, 895 whispers, 905 metro, 915 owl, and 935 tide that i just got yesterday. I ran a ton of sims and im getting the highest sims for both ST and multi with the 865 arcano and the 895 whispers. Trinket design is bullshit for this xpac it seems. look at the top several hundred logs for any boss in any diffficulty and that arcano is equipped for nearly every single one of them. Most likely higher than 865 too.

I was pretty excited to get the tide yesterday but it just doesnt seem to work out well. tried the owl and the tide together and that was bad just cause of the mini cool down on one after using the other. Tide really only seems great on fights where you can stand still for a while and on most mythic (hell even a lot of heroic ones) you cannot. Or you think youll be able to, pop it, then inevitably have to move for something.

I still cant figure out the best lego combo. Mainly using harvester/netherlord then i swap Netherlord for Sacrolash on DI, Mistress, and Host. Looking at the Lego sims on LOSS, it seems they are all super close.

[pappaslop]

I dunno, i have a bunch of trinkets, 865 arcano, 895 whispers, 905 metro, 915 owl, and 935 tide that i just got yesterday. I ran a ton of sims and im getting the highest sims for both ST and multi with the 865 arcano and the 895 whispers. Trinket design is bullshit for this xpac it seems. look at the top several hundred logs for any boss in any diffficulty and that arcano is equipped for nearly every single one of them. Most likely higher than 865 too.

I still cant figure out the best lego combo. Mainly using harvester/netherlord then i swap Netherlord for Sacrolash on DI, Mistress, and Host. Looking at the Lego sims on LOSS, it seems they are all super close.

I continue to use my 910 whispers/880 socketed UA and certainly get the best/most consistent results with them...

I do enjoy the harvester playstyle too and find myself using harvester/netherlord most of the time but I do swap to Sacrolash for M DI/Host (do not use it for Mistress). I am glad we can use a variety of combinations tbh - the results are up and down in terms of that and of course varies by fight but the majority of trinket usage remains very, very similar (UA/Whispers/Owl and all for obvious reasons).

[vaeevictiss]

Ive actually been running sims the past couple hours and getting the best results with the Hood/Belt (then swapping belt for sacrolash on di/host). Best trinket combos so far have been:

Helm/Belt/865 Arcano/935 Tide - ST Low movement
Helm/Belt/895 Whisper/915 Owl - ST High movement
Helm/Sacrolash/895 Whisper/935 Tide - 2T Low & Heavy movement

The helm/belt sims came out significantly higher than the harvester/netherlord or any combo of the 4 using harvester or netherlord. Kind of a shame the 2 new ones arent all that but they are sims and to be taken with a grain of salt. Almost every top log out there has a netherlord equipped (as well as an arcano).

I also dont know if the sims take all the lego effects into account or if they are supposed to be but maybe not working. It seems having a guaranteed execute on nearly every fight would count for something. It would also seem that the Tide would be better on a low movement fight where you could take advantage of it better.

[Deleted]

I would be interested to hear what actual sim criteria people are running for these trinkets, as if its a patchwerk sim i.e you stand stone still for the whole duration of the fight, i feel that people are giving themselves false positives or indeed inaccurate data

Every sim i run is at least light movement as even is some of the more static encounters (gorgoth) you will encounter forced movement from random mechanics such as pillar spawns. Just adding this to the sims will wildly change the data, especially with a trinket like whispers since any wasted procs will drastically drop its value since it is already so inconsistent at proccing in the first place. Many many times i have cursed to rnjesus when whispers procs during heavy movement only to fall of and leave me with the debuff when i am free to cast and desperate to make up the dps loss.

Taking this more realistic approach to encounters should encourage people to experiment with other trinkets/talents/leggos and not just think cookie cutter because all the top 10 parses have arcano/whispers as the majority. Those parses are mostly insane rng from whispers itself and padding for log ranks. For instance i have parsed (96%/1.8m DPS)the highest on mistress using empowered life tap/Helm/KJBW/stackstick due to how our guild does the encounter where as i was hitting 1.5m with Whispers/statstick because there is so much movement.

Granted i do not yet have the arcano dream, so there is that, but my point is yes the trinkets in TOS are pretty lack luster but what they are is consistent in the actual real world of raiding and not sims, that is better for progression since whispers also has the potential to be worse than the above and nothing but a stat stick if lady luck decide's is national women's day and turns up wearing a strapon with no lube!!!

[vaeevictiss]

I do think On Use trinkets are far better than random proc trinkets at least...even though i hate using them because its another thing to keep track of. Stat sticks are for the win and really make things trivial and more consistent from pull to pull. At least with an On Use you can hold off on it till you know you can take advantage of it the most. Thats why i think this 935 Tide will be good even on a heavy movement fight you should have 10 seconds here an there to stand still. Avatar is the only one i can think of that feels like i can never stand still.

I stopped doing patchwerk style logs as well because they are unrealistic, but it is good if you are curious about the maximum possible potential.

It does seem like there are niches tho that simc doesnt pick up on. taking write/absolute corruption on a 2 target fight will NEVER show sacrolash being used as the best choice. Yet i got 98% on Heroic DI with it and all the top parses use it too. Granted i got 12% in our mythic kill but it was our first kill and i felt like a chicken with my head cut off. I really dont know how people are doing so much more damage on that fight but it also took us over 7-8 mins so that lowers dps.

[SpikeySquad]

I do think On Use trinkets are far better than random proc trinkets at least...even though i hate using them because its another thing to keep track of. Stat sticks are for the win and really make things trivial and more consistent from pull to pull. At least with an On Use you can hold off on it till you know you can take advantage of it the most. Thats why i think this 935 Tide will be good even on a heavy movement fight you should have 10 seconds here an there to stand still. Avatar is the only one i can think of that feels like i can never stand still.

I stopped doing patchwerk style logs as well because they are unrealistic, but it is good if you are curious about the maximum possible potential.

It does seem like there are niches tho that simc doesnt pick up on. taking write/absolute corruption on a 2 target fight will NEVER show sacrolash being used as the best choice. Yet i got 98% on Heroic DI with it and all the top parses use it too. Granted i got 12% in our mythic kill but it was our first kill and i felt like a chicken with my head cut off. I really dont know how people are doing so much more damage on that fight but it also took us over 7-8 mins so that lowers dps.

To be accurate DI (normal/heroic) is not a two target fight unless you never touch the Tormented Soul. Nor will a proper 3 target sim apply for that situation either.

[Lulbalance]

I do think On Use trinkets are far better than random proc trinkets at least...even though i hate using them because its another thing to keep track of.

I think that would be true if you were a robot. I feel like the second you miss a CD refresh or fk up the timing you're dealing with a relative loss. That said, I still go UA / Owl / Whispers depending.

I do not think Tide is going to be good at all in really any M fight because yea, you might find 10 (they don't have to be consecutive but you'll lose out on time if they aren't) seconds to stand.. but you will also have to wait for that opportunity which is more lost time with the CD up.

Int bonus is something I guess, I don't think it outweighs the function issues though and Owl procs off tics and channels sooo I dunno.

[Beazzles]

Arcano + whispers is just too good. Owl slightly edges ahead of whispers in pure ST, but personally I think it feels bad and clunky to use since the on use only procs off of drain soul.

I have every ToS DPS raid trinket I can use at 930 or higher, and I literally never take off my 915 whispers and 860 arcano lul

[Biomega]

I think that would be true if you were a robot. I feel like the second you miss a CD refresh or fk up the timing you're dealing with a relative loss.

Common misconception. On-use trinkets actually have much more generous margins than people tend to think, because first and foremost it comes down to not losing a use - and on 1:30+ minute cooldowns, you'd need to delay quite a bit to actually lose one overall use over the course of the fight (well, quite a bit as in you don't need split-second reaction you still can't let it sit half a minute). In return, you get a chance to sync up with other procs, potions, mechanics, etc. reliably - which can be QUITE the damage gain.

That being said, I also just prefer UA + Whispers. Whispers is such an unfair piece of loot it's unreal.