"Gogogo!!!", or "You pull, you tank"

[Kolvarg]

there has always been a "diva tank" mentality.

I mean, I could say the "gogogo" mentality is also a "diva dps" mentality, since they just care about dpsing as much and as fast as possible with no regards for others in the group no?

Either way, I'm sure that happens in some cases, but in most?

The problem with the "gogogo" mentality is that it almost always isn't just one or two pulls, more often than not it ends up becoming a full dungeon where the tank instead of pulling at his own rythm, instead has to spend the whole time running after and taunting mobs pulled by others, which depending on the classes involved can be very frustrating for the tank and potentially for the whole group (if it results in scattered mobs and/or deaths).

That's what generates the "you pull you tank" mentality, imho, tanks (who might be unexperienced or just not very good) having to consistently run after and taunt mobs others pulled is a lot more frustrating and gameplay-changing than a dps having to attack 4 targets "only" instead of 8, imho. It's not about "ego", it's about being "forced" to play in a fundamentally diferent way (rather than just slower than what you'd want). It's just rude.

I mean, I've been in both ends of the situation (being a newish or undergeared tank and people rushing me, or being a geared dps on a very slow group), and I understand slow pulling can also be frustrating, but at least personally I empathize a lot more with the tank. It's much less big of a deal to just dps fewer mobs in a slower fashion, and has a lot less impact on actual gameplay.


Also it's sort of WoW "dungeone etiquette" to simply let the tank do the pulling. It just makes everything easier for everyone, and more often than not results in a more positive experience for everyone involved.

There are some exceptions, of course, in cases where it's absolutely clear another group will not be dangerous and it's made with common sense (pull them to the tank, or use md/tot on tank). But generally, you should just ask if it would be possible to pull more, or state the group would survive bigger pulls just fine.

[cparle87]

as a healer i'm 100% for "you pull, you tank"

i miss the times where i had to refill mana and would let them die if they pulled without any healer in sight

I'm of the opinion that dungeon and raid mobs need to all begin with a buff causing them to do 1,000% additional damage to non-tank specced players. The debuff will be removed when the tank appears on the mob's threat list, so the dps won't die to cleave and dots and such. It'll just cause dps who run ahead to pull to be utterly annihilated.

[Deleted]

If the tank was in reach and capable of aggroing the mobs, then he's in the wrong

[Galathir]

Question: who cares?

Going by the currently 17 pages of this thread: quite a lot of people.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

The ONLY time that "Gogogo!" is acceptable is in lower-difficulty stuff IF the tank is constantly going AFK. "You pull, you tank" is just bitter bullshit and is NEVER acceptable, and anyone who does that doesn't belong as a tank.

- - - Updated - - -

Question: who cares?

Can you spell P R O J E C T I N G?

[vipers]

The "you pull, you tank" mentally is out of touch and just retarded thinking.

It's the tanks JOB to tank shit REGARDLESS of how it was aggroed. That kind of mindset is unacceptable in LFD and LFR imo.

so its really a healers fault because he should heal no matter what too ?

[cparle87]

yep. i am always unsure if they are too stupid to prevent scaling from getting out of hand way too fast. or if they are too stupid to realize how piss easy and lame their content is. either of them results in a pisseasy lame and boring game without any challenge.

and before panically all the white knights ride in: i know myth raiding is challenging. i know "the challenge is there". and i still give a fuck, because also "MY" content in the game "I" have to do is questing, world questing, farming, and getting a weekly m+10 and maybe all with alts again. its around 30-60% of my content of the week. and IT IS piss easy. and no, m+10-12 is NOT challenging. its a boring grindfest. and when 50% of my content is piss easy then that isnt something i would call "great stuff". but this will not prevent at least 3 quotes from some white knights telling me its not.

And here comes Niwes. Let's count how many times he disses the game, the developers, and players who enjoy it.

1. "too stupid to prevent scaling"
2. "too stupid to realize how piss easy and lame their content is"
3. "piss easy and boring game"
4. "white knights"
5. "boring grindfest"
6. "50% of what I choose to do is piss easy"
7. second "white knights"

Wow, only 7? He must be in a good mood right now. 2 attacks on the devs, 3 buzzwords against the game, and 2 calling out anyone who disagrees with him a white knight.

[Ichifails]

Question: Who's in the right?

If a tank moves so slow a dps can get ahead of him he should have his option to spec tank removed until he completes some sort of trial where he proves he's not a bonobo.

[Niaraa]

so its really a healers fault because he should heal no matter what too ?

healer MUST try to save the rogue and maybe die because the tank are a Diva who dont do is job. i play heal should i let the tank die if he pull when i regen? when i dont have all my CD? when i am not full mana?

[Sevyvia]

If a tank moves so slow a dps can get ahead of him he should have his option to spec tank removed until he completes some sort of trial where he proves he's not a bonobo.

Sure, I guess that attitude will work well for you in random heroic dungeons, which presumably are all you do if you actually have that attitude.

[Jyggalag]

Tank is right only If the rogue pulls trash the tank can't handle, was going to skip anyway, doesn't pull to the tank, gets himself killed, and does shit dps. Otherwise, rogue is justified in doing so and the tank is a dick.

[Mirishka]

A rogue that failed to use Tricks or Vanish and dies = not a good rogue.

[Niaraa]

Well if the tank dies because they run out of range, caused LoS or pulled whiel you are out of mana then yes, I would not blame the healer at all. Especially when you have matchups like Protection Warrior + Holy Paladin; I am sorry but my sparkly pony cannot keep up with the amazing hulk jumping to the other end of the instance.

agree but we must try to heal them anyway. i dont like the arrogant way of leting players die because they dont do what I have planned.

[WinningOne]

Situation: RDF, tank going at his pace, rogue decides it's not fast enough, goes pulling packs, tank gives no f*cks, rogue dies, rogue throws tantrum, tank says "You pull, you tank".


Question: Who's in the right?

They were both wrong. The rogue was wrong for changing his/her role without consulting the group. The tank was wrong for deciding how the rogue gets punished without consulting the group. The operative letter in LFG is G, as in group, as in team. Teams communicate. If you make arbitrary decisions about changing the way the run is going without talking to the group you don't get to complain when they do the same thing back.

[HeiAggra]

Well in this case and i tank so i can say dps like to pull ALOT! since they just pull and try to get to the tank but it's annoying as fuck since the tank is they one doing the pulls also we need to have in mind the healer if he has mana, if he is well geared and such.
In this case and happend before with ill give a warning to the person. If they keep doing it for sure you will get e You Pulled, You Tank!

[HeiAggra]

They were both wrong. The rogue is wrong for changing his role without consulting the group. The tank was wrong for deciding how the rogue gets punished without consulting the group. The operative letter in LFG is G, as in group, as in team. Teams communicate. If you make arbitrary decisions about changing the way the run is going without talking to the group you don't get to complain when they do the same thing back.

you are not correct nor wrong. The rogue choosed how to die and that was pulling mobs.

[Holofernes]

i am 35 years old , i have been tanking for ages . I generally let them puller-kiddies deal with what they pull. I generally stand there and watch if sth like that happens. Im not the whore to compensate for their idiocy. If they die, non of my business.
In most cases its even a very bad geared and weak dps idiot that do this gogogo pull stuff, perhaps even one of those wearing pvp trinkets, in most cases it is some rogue or nowadays with legion the dh. Generally, it is the kind of folks that deals less dmg than the tank.

As a confession, I actually learned to enjoy watching retards die a little bit over the years of tanking dungeons.

[Deleted]

I always go at my own speed in the beginning to get a feeling for the group. I know some are very inpatient and I often ended up dead when I was freshly dinged and started doing heroic for loot, because the dpsers were used to high geared tanks and ran around like headless chickens pulling to much or pulling stuff we could easily avoid fighting.
Chain pulling doesn't always makes it faster, it leaves more room for mistakes specielly when people ain't paying attention to what to interrupt, I've plenty of times seen people pull the entire ship in maw after the second boss and just ignore every fear those big mobs cast so we ran around and died left and right.

[Segus1992]

But the tank wasn't a cunt, he was serving a warning. Could be that the tank, as I wrote, didn't feel comfortable with it.

The Rogue doing a job he isn't there to do (pulling) is equally cunty to the tank NOT doing a job he's there to do (tanking). Yes, if you refuse to tank mobs as a tank, you're being a cunt. Sometimes (rarely, for people who keep doing it a lot despite being asked not to) that's warranted.

[Deleted]

The rogue is an idiot. Don't pull what you can't tank yourself. I'm overequpped enough to actually solo a LFD but only get the "goodies" when I queue. So when the tank is too slow, I do sometimes pull myself. But I can tank actually all of what I pull (both from survival and threat perspective, so the heal doesn't get knocked out).

If you can't do that then you shouldn't pull and deserved the death the rogue had.