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  1. #1521
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    I wonder how this topic could become that successfull, when its just about a guy having the same mindset about woman rights as an islamist terrorist. There are a lot of racist and sexist idiots out there. He is nothing special.

    He deserved to be fired. For his mindset, and for blaming his company.

    And the fact assange wants to hire him leads to the conclusion this was a propaganda attack.
    the thread is so successful for the very fact that people like you completely misinterpreted what he actually wrote, and proceeded to unfairly demonize him just like you did.

    His views on evolving the tech sector to accommodate women's unique qualities are nothing new. Check out this Stanford lecture on the topic of gender on career choices. Of course, this professor wasn't fired for this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwviTwO8M8Q (pertinent quotes around 42 minute mark)

  2. #1522
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    - - - Updated - - -

    no you both are wrong. doxxing only requires personal information being leaked. nothing else.
    If this were true then Journalism is dead.

  3. #1523
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    Science deniers everyhere.

  4. #1524
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    It doesn't matter what was in the memo, or how well-reasoned it might have been (I don't personally think it was, I think he is salty that diversity initiatives provide advantages to people other than white men in the interest of affording equal opportunity to a wide variety of candidates).
    He quite rightfully though any discrimination based on race or gender is technically illegal; and it went against supposedly egalitarian Google culture, undermining the effort itself.

    If he wanted to foster an honest dialogue about this issue, he should have written the memo to the first pertinent person above him,
    Which is exactly what he did! Month passed, no response was given...

    and then forwarded it to the next applicable person (and so on, and so forth, up to the CEO) if he didn't get the result he was looking for.
    So he went to second step (passed it to "Google Sceptics" or something like that), and THAT is where it went company-wide and leaked to press.

    Seriously, most outrage at his situation comes from the fact that he followed all the right steps, added all the right caveats and qualifiers, was as reasonable as it gets, and still ended up fired and misrepresented.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2017-08-11 at 04:20 PM.

  5. #1525
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    Nope, not even close to what was said. Read the memo, it's available in my signature.
    Did you actually misread the memo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Memo
    Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things (lie #1)

    We can make software engineering more people-oriented with pair programming and more collaboration. Unfortunately, there may be limits to how people-oriented certain roles and Google can be and we shouldn’t deceive ourselves or students into thinking otherwise (some of our programs to get female students into coding might be doing this).

    Women on average are more cooperative (lie #2)

    Allow those exhibiting cooperative behavior to thrive. Recent updates to Perf may be doing this to an extent, but maybe there’s more we can do.

    This doesn’t mean that we should remove all competitiveness from Google. Competitiveness and self reliance can be valuable traits and we shouldn’t necessarily disadvantage those that have them, like what’s been done in education.

    Women on average are more prone to anxiety. (lie #3)

    Make tech and leadership less stressful. Google already partly does this with its many stress reduction courses and benefits.

    Women on average look for more work-life balance while men have a higher drive for status on average (lie #4)

    Unfortunately, as long as tech and leadership remain high status, lucrative careers, men may disproportionately want to be in them. Allowing and truly endorsing (as part of our culture) part time work though can keep more women in tech.

    In to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.
    He acts, as if these sentences are truths, and not his bias only. At the end his complete argumenation is based on lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Wait, you sincerely believe that a 35 year old paper from a journal with an impact factor of 1 is sufficient to sweep away the massive body of literature demonstrating differences in preferences between genders?
    Modern gender studies even go further. And your right wing role model did not bring up a single evidence for his bullshit.

  6. #1526
    Quote Originally Posted by Livnthedream View Post
    If this were true then Journalism is dead.
    it is true. and journalism is a huge fucking joke.

  7. #1527
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I think he is salty that diversity initiatives provide advantages to people other than white men in the interest of affording equal opportunity to a wide variety of candidates.
    Literally contradicting yourself there

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    He disagreed with the company line, publicly. He sent out a memo company wide detailing his disagreement. In America, you don't get to do that and keep your job.
    Apart from it's Google, and they're all into this whole "We're all in this together and we want your feedback to help the company!" stuff. (Well, as long as it's the right feedback anyway, I guess) It's not his fault that somebody else leaked internal documents to the press.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  8. #1528
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Modern gender studies even go further. And your right wing role model did not bring up a single evidence for his bullshit.
    Gender studies lol. You don't have to be right-wing to see that women and men aren't the same.

  9. #1529
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Did you actually misread the memo?



    He acts, as if these sentences are truths, and not his bias only. At the end his complete argumenation is based on lies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Modern gender studies even go further. And your right wing role model did not bring up a single evidence for his bullshit.
    So trolling, ignorant to the point of stupidity or a science denier. Choose your next reply carefully Mr. Conservative.

  10. #1530
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Did you actually misread the memo?



    He acts, as if these sentences are truths, and not his bias only. At the end his complete argumenation is based on lies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Modern gender studies even go further. And your right wing role model did not bring up a single evidence for his bullshit.
    you know you're wrong but your "I want to be upset when neo right demagogues share the idea not to support equal rights for woman with islamist terrorists" attitude wont let you process it. stop the bias, close your eyes and explain to us why women and men are different. and if you think there is no difference whatsoever, well i can tell you never lived with a woman in your life. no mother, no sister, no auntie, no grandmother, no girlfriend, no wife, nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Livnthedream View Post
    So trolling, ignorant to the point of stupidity or a science denier. Choose your next reply carefully Mr. Conservative.
    oh liberal eats liberal, loving it!

  11. #1531
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    you know you're wrong but your "I want to be upset when neo right demagogues share the idea not to support equal rights for woman with islamist terrorists" attitude wont let you process it. stop the bias, close your eyes and explain to us why women and men are different. and if you think there is no difference whatsoever, well i can tell you never lived with a woman in your life. no mother, no sister, no auntie, no grandmother, no girlfriend, no wife, nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    oh liberal eats liberal, loving it!
    Nah. Their conservatives because they disagree. Only conservatives would disagree with people like them.

  12. #1532
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    I think he is salty that diversity initiatives provide advantages to people other than white men in the interest of affording equal opportunity to a wide variety of candidates).
    what privilege does the "white man" have that i dont have as an "asian man". please be specific so i can get upset like you are.

  13. #1533
    Deleted
    Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to lead a company. Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to do IT jobs. Every difference is made out of culture and education, and is nothing humanity cant get rid off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...he-google-memo

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guardian
    While the biological hypothesis seems to appeal to some tech workers, the notion that Silicon Valley’s gender gap can be explained away by such factors is questionable. Prof Dame Wendy Hall, a director of the Web Science Institute at the University of Southampton, points to the wide variation in gender ratios in computing internationally, which she argues would not be seen if there were a universal biological difference in ability between the sexes. While only 16% of computer science undergraduates in the UK – and a similar proportion in the US – are female, the balance is different in India, Malaysia and Nigeria.

    “I walk into a classroom in India and it’s more than 50% girls, the same in Malaysia,” says Hall. “They are so passionate about coding, Lots of women love coding. There just aren’t these gender differences there.”

    In fact, in the west, female participation in computer science has plunged since the mid-80s, while female participation in medicine and other scientific fields has increased steadily.

    Over the past decade, even with a number of initiatives being set up to boost girls’ participation in coding and computer science, the proportion of female computer science undergraduates has continued to fall – 10 years ago, the proportion was 19% of the UK total.

    Hall believes that the gender gap and the “male computer geek” stereotype can be dated back to the advent of the home computer in the early 80s, when the machines were marketed heavily as gaming systems for men. She suspects this might be more culpable for women’s low participation than men having evolved a mindset better suited to writing lines of code.

    “Women were turned off computing in the 80s,” she says. “Computers were sold as toys for the boys. Somehow that cultural stigma has stuck in the west in a way that we can’t get rid of and it’s just getting worse. The skills gap is going to get huge.”

    Jane Margolis, a psychologist at the University of California, Los Angeles, agrees. Margolis interviewed hundreds of computer science students in the 90s at Carnegie Mellon University, which had one of the top programmes in the country at the time.

    “Many of the women at Carnegie Mellon talked about computers being in [their brother’s] bedroom and there were a lot of father-son internships around the computer that weren’t happening with the girls,” she says. “There was a cultural assumption that the norms of being in computer science were that you would do it 24/7, were obsessed with it, wanted nothing in your life but computers – and that was very much associated with male adolescents,” she added. “It was very much based around a male norm. Females were made to think that, if they didn’t dream in code and if it wasn’t their full obsession, they didn’t belong or were not capable of being in the field.”
    Former Tinder vice-president Whitney Wolfe
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    Former Tinder vice-president Whitney Wolfe, who sued the company over ‘atrocious’ misogyny in 2014. Photograph: Jeff Wilson for the Observer

    Prof Gina Rippon, a neuroscientist at Aston University in Birmingham, has studied extensively cognitive differences between men and women. She says that, while Damore pointed to scientific evidence for men and women having different aptitudes and personality traits, he “seemed to miss the point that, even if there were well-established sex differences at any level, they’re always very tiny. Certainly not enough to explain the gender ratios of Google programmers – even if you didn’t want to get into the nitty-gritty of arguing about the science.”

    Rippon’s work suggests that, in many cases, the differences between male and female performance, if present, are very small, can disappear with training and are not consistent across cultures.

    In one study, Rippon found that British men performed significantly better on a spatial rotation task than women. However, when the experiment was repeated with Chinese participants, there was no difference between the male and female participants. Other similar studies have found that gender differences in spatial rotation tasks disappeared when the researchers controlled for video game experience. Rippon points to another study, which showed that differences in personality traits between men and women varied wildly across countries, depending on the status of women in that society.

    So, Damore’s suggestion that women are “more prone to anxiety” does not imply that this difference is a function of hormones or hardwiring of the brain. Plus, there is compelling evidence that unconscious biases have a powerful effect on what people expect themselves to be good at and how they perform. For instance, girls tend to score worse on a test if they are told their maths skills are being assessed than when they are told they are taking part in a study investigating how people solve problems.

    Even assuming that there are fundamental differences between male and female cognition and personality, there is no clear, logical line between such findings in a laboratory setting and performance in the workplace.

    Priya Guha, the UK lead of tech incubator RocketSpace and a former UK consul general in San Francisco, argues that, even by its own arguments, Damore’s memo missed the point. “The description of an engineer as somebody who has their head down, focused on developing the next line of code, is the sort of engineer that won’t be adding value,” she says. “We need engineers out there who are both very strong developers, but also people who understand the world around them and are comfortable interacting with society. So, by that description, women would be better engineers even by the stereotypes he proposes.”
    Google’s sexist memo has provided the alt-right with a new martyr | Owen Jones
    Read more

    Unfortunately, many such multiskilled people are likely to be deterred by the perception of hostility engendered by claims like Damore’s. “We have a historical challenge to encourage girls, let alone women, into careers such as engineering, which then creates an imbalance in the people who enter tech industries overall,” says Guha. “Tech has a particular problem in this area. Wherever there are instances of people creating a hostile environment, companies need to stamp that out quickly. His dismissal sends a really powerful message: the environment in these companies needs to be thought about to ensure that it improves day by day.”
    Last edited by mmoc903ad35b4b; 2017-08-11 at 04:20 PM.

  14. #1534
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to lead a company. Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to do IT job. Every difference is made out of culture and education, and is nothing humanity cant get rid off.
    That's just straight up a lie. There is a heavy biological basis as to why gender roles exist, some is culture but most is not, as can be observed in other animals.
    Last edited by Freighter; 2017-08-11 at 04:21 PM.

  15. #1535
    Quote Originally Posted by Dicedspam View Post
    All these people saying he is a conservative. He was a liberal. Uninformed slugs.
    No he's not. Breitbart has his back, and he is allying himself with the Alt-right, and that tells me all I need to know.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc.../#220562074bec

  16. #1536
    Modern slavery does not recognize colors anymore. CEOs want all genders and races

  17. #1537
    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post

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    oh liberal eats liberal, loving it!
    Actually they claimed to be a Conservative in another thread. So either they were trolling there, or they are trolling here. Given how utterly hyperbolic their claim was, and the stupidity of their 'evidence' I am going to call troll until they start acting like an actual human being.

  18. #1538
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to lead a company. Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to do IT jobs. Every difference is made out of culture and education, and is nothing humanity cant get rid off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...he-google-memo
    in support of your opinion women and men are no different biological when its come to caring for children? even though their breasts fill with milk for nourishment and a males cannot. or women just better at some things and equal at others? its like my argument i had with the intellectuals of this forum, they conceded black males on average perform better in sports and physical related fields but had a temper tantrum when i said on average they have less IQ than an asian or white male. so in effect these people were saying blacks are better and you would be saying females are better.

    personally i think we all have our strengths and weaknesses and when we call come to together we are stronger than the sum of our parts. recognize the individual talents and cultivate them, dont sideline a person cause of the color of their skin or their gender. that fucking simple.


    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Endus; 2017-08-11 at 04:45 PM.

  19. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlockiii View Post
    No he's not. Breitbart has his back, and he is allying himself with the Alt-right, and that tells me all I need to know.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc.../#220562074bec
    Sorry, but i can't imagine a conservative saying this:

    "The male gender role is currently inflexible
    Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles."

  20. #1540
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnulzenbarde View Post
    Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to lead a company. Actually, there are no biological differences when it is about being able to do IT jobs. Every difference is made out of culture and education, and is nothing humanity cant get rid off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...he-google-memo
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...78B7A6508F4883

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...49763404001642

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...5.1-2/issuetoc

    Would you like to know more?

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