First M+ Invitational Race Thread

[Deleted]

looking forward to the teams names in the tourney. I hope they got some creativitiy.

[ItsTiddles]

When do you think Blizz will announce the invited teams? Will be very cool to see if Blizzard actually "cheats" themselves by now banning some of the teams just to pretend that class balance is better than it actually is?

A friend and I were discussing this yesterday. What's the point of using a small ban wave to do it when it's an invitational and Blizzard gets to choose who gets to come anyways, despite what the rankings say? If it's just to save face, this isn't exactly working.

[Deleted]

A friend and I were discussing this yesterday. What's the point of using a small ban wave to do it when it's an invitational and Blizzard gets to choose who gets to come anyways, despite what the rankings say? If it's just to save face, this isn't exactly working.

It's ridiculous to think the bans happend primary for the tournament. Acc sharing is a pretty big thing. I mean acc sharing should happen way more often than any other violations together. The 1 day ban is a warning for all of them. Unfortunately some of the m+ competitors got caught too this time, shit happens.

[Lazel]

maybe it listen a little bit toxic, but the only thing we saw of fragnance team was overgeared and overdicked AoE dps in the quaking week. Meowchans team actually proofed themselves with HOV+23 in the tyrannical week, an very impressive achievement. Fralle's team did also an amazing job, their team comp were way more unforgiving for individual fails (only 1 br + not the strongest comp dps wise + alliance, but this could be countered with the DH bracers), so they proofed some sort of skill as well.

Very impressive when you have classes that can survive everything ? Only boss that doesn't involve rng there is Fenryr and Odyn, a bit of first boss aswell with Hymdall being the hardest to actually play. Hyrja is just rng whoever gets one shotted or not. Once you get past Hyrja you basically complete the dungeon

Being able to play every spec vs. being a one trick pony is a very, very very big advantage, trust me

[Emancptr]

Very impressive when you have classes that can survive everything ? Only boss that doesn't involve rng there is Fenryr and Odyn, a bit of first boss aswell with Hymdall being the hardest to actually play. Hyrja is just rng whoever gets one shotted or not. Once you get past Hyrja you basically complete the dungeon

Being able to play every spec vs. being a one trick pony is a very, very very big advantage, trust me

Elprofessor likes to talk as if he is "in the know" about things. Which impresses the people that have no idea what is actually going on.

People that actually know what they're talking about realize that Elprofessor is a buffoon. I don't think there's 1 thing he's said in this thread or others that hasn't been instantly corrected by other players with more experience.

[Emancptr]

such as? the most people in this forum just repeating/copy pasting shit of other persons without using their own brains.

1) "Teeming drastically changed Upper Kara" - Proven wrong within 2 posts. In general your assessment of what dungeons were easy/hard on every given week sucks.
2) "Quaking isn't impact-ful on bosses" - Lazel is 100% right in that quaking breaking Prydaz (especially on classes without good defensives, Hunters) is a huge problem. You have to constantly monitor your Prydaz absorb and if it's not full or almost full you're going to have to use another defensive.

That's 2 in the last 5 pages and i'm too lazy to go look for more.

I'll leave you with a proverb that applies to your situation.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"
-Mark Twain

[Deleted]

Elprofessor likes to talk as if he is "in the know" about things. Which impresses the people that have no idea what is actually going on.

People that actually know what they're talking about realize that Elprofessor is a buffoon. I don't think there's 1 thing he's said in this thread or others that hasn't been instantly corrected by other players with more experience.

such as? the most people in this forum just repeating/copy pasting shit of other persons without using their own brains. If you counter a "VIP" like Lazel with "logic" you receive a shit storm immediatly from all their fan boiz.

I always try to explain my arguments/opinions with mathematically basis and the counterpart usually refuse without couter-thesis, just with shit like "do you have any experience?". Numbers are the only truth in wow since day 1. The only thing an outsider will never know are special tactics or mechanics which are not communicated in public, this are the only unknown variables for an outsider.

Just take this for an example:

Very impressive when you have classes that can survive everything ? Only boss that doesn't involve rng there is Fenryr and Odyn, a bit of first boss aswell with Hymdall being the hardest to actually play. Hyrja is just rng whoever gets one shotted or not. Once you get past Hyrja you basically complete the dungeon

Being able to play every spec vs. being a one trick pony is a very, very very big advantage, trust me

You can indeed outplay hyrja by controling the expel light damage and decrease the rng influence by a large margin. The chance to beat hyrja just by praying for good rng is non-existant. The bosses take actually so much time on tyrannical at those levels (because of the hp and the fact that you need to wear defensive gear setups) that you shouldn't have enough time for a single wipe on a boss. I mean you guys did hov+24 on the fortified week, now imagine that the bosses take 30% more time and doing also slightly more damage. If you would play hyrja dirty, even meowchans team would run out of survivability before half-time.

[Emancptr]

such as? the most people in this forum just repeating/copy pasting shit of other persons without using their own brains. If you counter a "VIP" like Lazel with "logic" you receive a shit storm immediatly from all their fan boiz.

You didn't counter Lazel with logic. You countered him with "this is how I think this would go" without any actual thought process or basic understanding of mechanics. And when people have experience that directly refutes what you're saying (Empirical evidence) then your "feely-crafting" is completely useless.

Don't worry we'll get down to your Hrja example below where you do the exact same thing. Just like your doing with the Hrja example, but i'll get to that in a bit).

I always try to explain my arguments/opinions with mathematically basis and the counterpart usually refuse without couter-thesis, just with shit like "do you have any experience?". Numbers are the only truth in wow since day 1. The only thing an outsider will never know are special tactics or mechanics which are not communicated in public, this are the only unknown variables for an outsider.

You don't have any mathematical basis for anything you're saying. You are the ultimate example of "feely-crafting" and arm-chair quarterback. You have no basis for anything you're saying, but you think it's correct simply because it came from your own head.

You can indeed outplay hyrja by controling the expel light damage and decrease the rng influence by a large margin. The chance to beat hyrja just by praying for good rng is non-existant. The bosses take actually so much time on tyrannical at those levels (because of the hp and the fact that you need to wear defensive gear setups) that you shouldn't have enough time for a single wipe on a boss. I mean you guys did hov+24 on the fortified week, now imagine that the bosses take 30% more time and doing also slightly more damage. If you would play hyrja dirty, even meowchans team would run out of survivability before half-time.

You can't outplay Hrja at all (god I hope you don't think Quin's strat for Hrja is legit). Hrja will always get the same number of stacks when she goes to a side (more if you screw up). On Tyrannical that number of stacks will always 1 shot someone without a full Prydaz/Defensive (it will kill Hunter's through Prydaz on 23 Tyrannical).

Lazel's point that you dismiss without any thought is true. Meowchan's group has an optimal comp for Hrja on Tyrannical. Rogue always has feint, Boomkin always has bearform, and H Pal always has the HP/DR to survive. The Warrior is the only question mark for survivability on Hrja and he can use the externals/rallying to survive. Whereas, Lazel's group has double warrior (Rally is good, but not good enough) and a Hunter (literally dies everytime he doesn't have a defensive).

[Deleted]

Just a little introduction of my sight on the things here. I am not discussing about actual difficulty of surviving bosses, trash or dealing with mechanics or something. The timer is the only benchmark. If I take words like "harder" or "easier", I always mean the resistance against the clock. I just put some numbers together and furthermore I have a little idea about how playstyles changes with different affixes.

1) "Teeming drastically changed Upper Kara" - Proven wrong within 2 posts.

This is just an opinion wheather can be right nor wrong. Teeming actually changes the upper kara trash, in my opinion drastically. The fact you can skip some (very annoying) trashpacks does not change the fact that the trash is changed. Changed isn't even a term discribing difficulty.

2) "Quaking isn't impact-ful on bosses" - Lazel is 100% right in that quaking breaking Prydaz (especially on classes without good defensives, Hunters) is a huge problem. You have to constantly monitor your Prydaz absorb and if it's not full or almost full you're going to have to use another defensive.

Quaking is a non-issue towards the timer. I never said it has no effect on actual difficulty. Furthermore nearly any team destroyed bosses on their +23 keys (at least on the streams I watched) without any quaking-issue.

You don't have any mathematical basis for anything you're saying. You are the ultimate example of "feely-crafting" and arm-chair quarterback. You have no basis for anything you're saying, but you think it's correct simply because it came from your own head.

I am actually to lazy to copy paste all the numbers from their sources. The numbers are around and easy accessable, you can check by yourself, its not my job.

Everything I share are common problems happening in reality (own m+exp, streams, other conversations/discussions). Nothing what goes through my fingers is purely feelcraft-driven since 2007, but sometimes my calcs are rounded up by a very small propotion of gut instinct.

The key level has no effect of actual difficulty feeling. You can reproduce the exact same resistance in any other key level before by just decreasing the player power (offensive / defensive numbers). 940 top teams are struggeling in the 23/24 area is no difference if 925 groups are struggelin on +21 or something (just an example).

Lazel's point that you dismiss without any thought is true. Meowchan's group has an optimal comp for Hrja on Tyrannical. Rogue always has feint, Boomkin always has bearform, and H Pal always has the HP/DR to survive. The Warrior is the only question mark for survivability on Hrja and he can use the externals/rallying to survive. Whereas, Lazel's group has double warrior (Rally is good, but not good enough) and a Hunter (literally dies everytime he doesn't have a defensive).

I just denied the full rng stuff. It's just practicable impossible to kill this boss by just hoping for good rng in a oneshot. Meowchans group has indeed a very good comp for this fight, but the chance is quite high that the expel light jump was always soaked by muscle and not just randomly. It takes a lot of pressure out of the fight (furthermore I have no idea about "quins tactic"). This is everything is stated.

[Emancptr]

I am actually to lazy to copy paste all the numbers from their sources. The numbers are around and easy accessable, you can check by yourself, its not my job.

Ah, the classic i'm right because of numbers. Oh you know those numbers everyone has seen and knows about.

When you assert something that you want people to listen to. It is your responsibility to provide the evidence. Not the other way around.

- - - Updated - - -

I just denied the full rng stuff. It's just practicable impossible to kill this boss by just hoping for good rng in a oneshot. Meowchans group has indeed a very good comp for this fight, but the chance is quite high that the expel light jump was always soaked by muscle and not just randomly. It takes a lot of pressure out of the fight (furthermore I have no idea about "quins tactic"). This is everything is stated.

You fundamentally do not understand how the expel light mechanic works.

[Moshots]

A friend and I were discussing this yesterday. What's the point of using a small ban wave to do it when it's an invitational and Blizzard gets to choose who gets to come anyways, despite what the rankings say? If it's just to save face, this isn't exactly working.

Last 3 ban waves in a nutshell

Bans only hit limit.

US OMG WHY YOU TARGETING US
EU YEAH FUCKING CHEATERS...

Bans hit limit method and other top us guilds
US LOL Method might lose all team in M+ invitation.
EU WHY ARE THESE BANS ONLY TARGETED THE TEAM THAT SHOULD HAVE WON THE M+INVITATION!!!!.

[Deleted]

The M+ Race is starting today. I hope you guys are enjoying this thread like all the other progression/race threads out there. Please share your opinions, your insights and your secrets detected by watching streams or by participating on that tournament by yourself. QQing, trolling, baiting and a lot of drama is always appreciated.

just a little reminder

[Emerald Archer]

and a Hunter (literally dies everytime he doesn't have a defensive).

Just a note, MM hunters everytime they disengage, get a roughly 13%-20% dmg reduction, that + prydaz should be enough to survive her hit.

That disengage defensive is really highly overlooked (doesn't help that most MM hunters don't actually use it often)

[Simmias]

just a little reminder

'hey guys I'm intentionally looking like a retard coz I'm baiting and trolling huehue'

Shut the fuck up.

[Lazel]

Just a note, MM hunters everytime they disengage, get a roughly 13%-20% dmg reduction, that + prydaz should be enough to survive her hit.

That disengage defensive is really highly overlooked (doesn't help that most MM hunters don't actually use it often)

Yeah, not really

[Twdft]

Before that little reminder he had some explanation of Expel Light written, but since the highest mythic+ I have done was a 13 half a year ago I don't know if it made sense.

[Emerald Archer]

Yeah, not really

I made like 4 statements there, not sure which one your "not really" is referring to.

How much does she hit for?

[Raiju]

Last 3 ban waves in a nutshell

Bans only hit limit.

US OMG WHY YOU TARGETING US
EU YEAH FUCKING CHEATERS...

Bans hit limit method and other top us guilds
US LOL Method might lose all team in M+ invitation.
EU WHY ARE THESE BANS ONLY TARGETED THE TEAM THAT SHOULD HAVE WON THE M+INVITATION!!!!.

Pretty sure the vast majority of EU based people here are saying it's completely deserved and good it was done before the tournament fully started.

[Aussie2017]

I'm glad to see at least one American team could get into World Top 8. Grats to Zqs, Feraldog, Imfiredup, Vymm, Wafflesauce. Didn't think a Brewmaster could be there above Guardian Druid especially when I see 2 other guardians in the top 6 from different regions (Although Pumps is a god, so does he count?) and no other Brewmaster in the top 35. You other American teams have some work to do!

[Emancptr]

I'm glad to see at least one American team could get into World Top 8. Grats to Zqs, Feraldog, Imfiredup, Vymm, Wafflesauce. Didn't think a Brewmaster could be there above Guardian Druid especially when I see 2 other guardians in the top 6 from different regions (Although Pumps is a god, so does he count?) and no other Brewmaster in the top 35. You other American teams have some work to do!

Going to suck really hard when they get DQ'd because Waffle isn't American/Canadian.