Why Some U.S. Ex-Spies Don't Buy the Russia Story

[Skroe]

The fact that VIPS states that Guccifer 2.0 is likely the DNC in and of itself should state how crazy this is. The intelligence communities of not just the US, but the UK, France and Germany, plus private firms such as CrowdStrike and Trend Micro have all connected it, independently to Russian intelligence.

Furtheremore, the Nation? Boy you don't say. Stephen F. Cohen, the husband of Nation editor/publisher (and himself a contributing Editor) Katrina vanden Heuvel. He has been a Russian (and Putin) apologist for decades, and the Nation has been publishing pro-Russian material for many years.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._the_most.html

This is from 2014.

Putin’s Pal
Stephen Cohen was once considered a top Russia historian. Now he publishes odd defenses of Vladimir Putin. The Nation just published his most outrageous one yet.

few months ago, at the height of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict over Crimea, Stephen F. Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton, acquired a certain notoriety as the Kremlin’s No. 1 American apologist. As Cohen made Russia’s case and lamented the American media’s meanness to Vladimir Putin in print and on the airwaves, he was mocked as a “patsy” and a “dupe” everywhere from the conservative Free Beacon to the liberal New York and New Republic. Now, as the hostilities in eastern Ukraine have turned to the tragedy of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, Cohen is at it again—this time, with a long article in the current issue of The Nation indicting “Kiev’s atrocities” in eastern Ukraine and America’s collusion therein. The timing is rather unfortunate for Cohen and The Nation, since the piece is also unabashedly sympathetic to the Russian-backed militants who appear responsible for the murder of 298 innocent civilians.

Some of Cohen’s critics have assumed that he is a lifelong leftist hack who simply transferred his allegiance from the Soviet Union to Putin’s Russia. The truth is more complex. While Cohen regularly argued against anti-Soviet hawks in the Cold War–era in his TV appearances and writing (including a monthly column in The Nation, “Sovieticus,” in the 1980s), he was no fan of the Soviet regime, which blacklisted him from travel there from 1982 to 1985. He had friends among Soviet dissidents—gravitating, however, toward those of the democratic socialist or even Marxist persuasion. Cohen’s own interest in “socialism with a human face” was reflected in his scholarly work: His first book, published in 1973, was a well-received biography of Nikolai Bukharin, the Bolshevik leader and victim of Stalin’s purges who at one point advocated a mixed economy and more humane politics.

In the late 1980s, Cohen was an ardent enthusiast of Mikhail Gorbachev’s perestroika reforms; he and his wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, now editor in chief of The Nation, co-authored Voices of Glasnost: Interviews With Gorbachev’s Reformers, whose subjects—officials, journalists, and intellectuals—were all proponents of top-down change to bring about a kinder, gentler Soviet socialism. Those dreams ended in a rude awakening in 1991 with the demise of the Soviet Union.

The Soviet collapse is generally seen as the result of the system’s internal rot; Cohen, however, has blamed it on Boris Yeltsin’s power-grabbing, aided by the pro-Western “radical intelligentsia” that “hijacked Gorbachev’s gradualist reformation.” His antipathy to Yeltsin led him to sympathize with the views of those Russians who saw their country during the 1990s as “semi-occupied by foreigners—from shock-therapy economists to human-rights advocates,” and who credited Putin with taking it back. In Newsweek’s February 2008 roundup of expert opinions on Putin and his legacy, Cohen’s contribution—entitled “The Savior”—asserted Putin was the man who “ended Russia's collapse at home and re-asserted its independence abroad.” As U.S.-Russian relations worsened, Cohen grew increasingly strident in his denunciations of the “demonization” of Putin by the American media.

Cohen’s new article in The Nation hits a new low. The charge Cohen makes is a serious one: that the pro-Western Ukrainian government, aided and abetted by the Obama administration, the “new Cold War hawks” in Congress, and the craven American media, is committing “deeds that are rising to the level of war crimes, if they have not done so already.” He is referring to the Ukrainian military assaults on cities and towns held by pro-Russian insurgents, including artillery shelling and air attacks.

So on and so forth. You get the picture. We've talked about this joker before on here.

[Ravenblade]

It was a great site for economic doom and gloom till it was co opted by the alt right

It's all connected. The alt-right and by that extension conspiracy theorists as well the classic populist right always had that "Russia is our saviour in these dark times!" spin. In Germany there's even synonymous term for Russia (in the sense of the caring Soviet brother in Moscow): "Hohe Hand" or High Hand in English. So whenever is invoking the High Hand prepare for some first class sheeple waking comedy.

[Crispin]

Can I just point out, that to my experience, people who's title include "director", generally dont know anything about whatever they're the director of.

[Warning]

The argument being presented is that if your download speed is too high, you're actually a memory stick.

Also nice parroting the eye-roll inducing talking point of "but they were wrong once back in 2003!" once again.

[I Push Buttons]

So either our entire intelligence community is wrong and/or lying... Or Ray McGovern is wrong and/or lying.

Hmmmmmmm:

Ray McGovern, a VIPS founder who used to prepare and deliver White House briefings at the Central Intelligence Agency, has been removed from Hillary Clinton's events for protesting her policies.

I am going to give our current intelligence community the benefit of the doubt... I know Hillary is shady, but to have our entire intelligence community in her pocket spinning the story she wants...? And then leaving evidence that would refute it just circulating around for anyone to scrutinize...? Come on... Come on..............

[Deleted]

It is plausible. DNC didn't even allow FBI to examine their server. Only one company examined it, company that had massive anti-Russian hardon, then it was wiped to prevent anyone else from looking into it. Whole thing about Russian text being copy/pasted into MS Word document looks very fishy.

We'll probably never know the truth. DNC made sure of that by wiping server.

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The fact that VIPS states that Guccifer 2.0 is likely the DNC in and of itself should state how crazy this is. The intelligence communities of not just the US, but the UK, France and Germany, plus private firms such as CrowdStrike and Trend Micro have all connected it, independently to Russian intelligence.

You should stop spreading that bullshit. None of them did any independent investigations.

DNC refused to give it to FBI. Only one company "examined" it: CrowdStrike. That's it. Then server was wiped clean so nobody else could examine it.

[Warning]

It is plausible. DNC didn't even allow FBI to examine their server. Only one company examined it, company that had massive anti-Russian hardon, then it was wiped to prevent anyone else from looking into it. Whole thing about Russian text being copy/pasted into MS Word document looks very fishy.

We'll probably never know the truth. DNC made sure of that by wiping server.

- - - Updated - - -

You should stop spreading that bullshit. None of them did any independent investigations.

DNC refused to give it to FBI. Only one company "examined" it: CrowdStrike. That's it. Then server was wiped clean so nobody else could examine it.

Plausible? Don't make me laugh, someone tells you a bullshit story about copy pasting into a word document and internet speed = memory stick mumbo jumbo and you buy it? If that's plausible let me paste you a billion dollar note in notepad, if you print it out with high enough quality I'm sure you can use it.

Do you honestly believe this story holds up in the face of a multitude of most well equipped and highly trained intelligence professionals from multiple western countries detailing why it was otherwise?
Russia is not your friend, and whether you can come to terms with it is fortunately becoming less relevant by the second, as support for Trump and his Kremlin friends dies off.

Btw, the sig you have at the bottom of your posts is a banner of your foolishness, as well a strawman argument. The point about influence is that it's quiet and non obvious, it seeps into your mind and manipulates you into thinking a certain way. Some years ago you might never have considered supporting a man that insults the parents of a fallen soldier, disgraces the presidency with lies and misogynist tendencies and shits all over American values, but here you are. Putin basically performed inception on you, sold you on a lie and after all this time and all this evidence you still want to believe you made the choice you really believed in. Wake the hell up.

[SirBeef]

So basically, the TL;DR of this is...

Some former spies who really like Trump say that after the DNC knew Assange was going to release emails, they created a false flag to make it look like their servers had been hacked by Russians...

Even though the intelligence community investigated this and found that Russians had accessed the DNC email servers through hacking BEFORE Assange announced the release of the emails. Even though the accusation is that the DNC created these false flags after Assange announced this...

Man, that LAST "Hillary is a time traveler who went back in time to plant evidence to make Trump look bad" accusation was just great, but I didn't think they'd come up with a SECOND one.

Pretty much a double nothingburger with cheese since intelligence was investigating possible Russian ties and interference before the leaks.

[Felya]

This article forgets a few things, which is only natural after 15 years.

The justification for war in Iraq, did not receive the same support form US and foreign intelligence. UN inspectors didn't find anything, but Bush didn't trust it. A lot of our allies said it wasn't true, but Bush disregard it to instead tout "Coalition of the willing". Those who opposed the war, including mother of fallen soldier in Cindy Sheehan, were just unAmerican and out to get Bush. Bush went as far as copy his daddy and banned footage of returning coffins of American soldiers.

Denying there was Russian interference, is not receiving the same support from foreign and US intelligence. British intelligence has confirmed it, but Trump said to not trust them. A lot of our allies claim it's true, but Trump disregarded it to instead fire the intelligence director Comey. Those who now claim Russian interference happened, are now being called fake Americans who are just out to get Trump. Despite the firings of Manafort and Flynn, who explicitly lied to the American VP about his contact with Russia, they were real American just doing their job. Trump went as far as banning cameras during press briefings to avoid further scrutiny.

People who claim that Russian interference is the same as Iraq war justification are correct... they just choose to ignore all of the world wide intelligence, to succumb to president Trump's will instead... Just like they did with Bush.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much a double nothingburger with cheese since intelligence was investigating possible Russian ties and interference before the leaks.

We had Russian spies kicked out for trying to influence US politicians and business man in 2010. After which, Trump held a beauty contentest in Russia, in 2013. Where until about 2016, he regularly bragged about having a relationship with Putin. Even saying that they met when both were interviewed by 60 minutes.

This isn't something that is new. No one had issue with Trump's boasted relationship with Putin, until he was no longer a reality TV celebrity and a tabloid star, but the president of the US. There is no issue with a civilian having a relationship with a leader of a hostile country. But, a politician, who became president, having a relationship with a foreign leader, who recently had spies kicked out for explicitly trying to influence people like Trump, should see massive scrutiny.

Don't forget, this would be a wholly different story, if Trump simply said...

"We want FBI to investigate this assault on American elections and I will work the best intelligence agency in the world to find the truth and hold those responsible accountable."

This would be a nothingburger if Trump simply supported the investigation. It would declaw his opponents and without crap like firing Comey, would have proven his innocence sooner.

Oh and Anna Chapman, the Russian spy who then tried to get her nude modeling career going, was a vocal Trump supporter during the election.

[fengosa]

Donald Trump just started tweeting about Hillary's emails the day JR, Kushner and Manafort met with a Russian lawyer about removing sanctions, total coincidence everyone.

[Machismo]

The issue with 2003 was not the intelligence gathering, is was how the administration misinterpreted the data. That's not really an intelligence failure. Mopst of the intelligence community was wondering how the administration came to the conclusions they reached.

[LaserSharkDFB]

I mean, I haven't tested it lately, but I feel like if it took you 87 seconds to copy 2 MB worth of files to a thumb drive, something's wrong with your thumb drive.

[Creotor]

I mean, I haven't tested it lately, but I feel like if it took you 87 seconds to copy 2 MB worth of files to a thumb drive, something's wrong with your thumb drive.

You should test the significance of commas vs periods in numbers, as they're used in US. It's ~2GB, not 2MB.

[Grapemask]

You should test the significance of commas vs periods in numbers, as they're used in US. It's ~2GB, not 2MB.

Although the important thing to note, again, is it's a total mystery why they think this time correlates to when the file was removed from the DNC server (presumably they're comparing the time on the earliest arrived file to the time of the latest arrived file). Any such time recorded in the metadata of a file can and will be changed during what would've been multiple transfers of files to different medias. The guy didn't just download from DNC, alt tab, and upload to Wikileaks.

[Rukh]

LOL look at the rest of that guy's articles. This is where Trump's reelection money is going. Also, he's pulling these numbers out of his ass as concrete facts and picking a nit and claiming that if you can question this nit, then everything must be false. Its classic climate change denial.

[LaserSharkDFB]

You should test the significance of commas vs periods in numbers, as they're used in US. It's ~2GB, not 2MB.

Fair enough, though in America we consider a number with a period to be what we call a 'decimal'. Maybe they should consider changing to the metric system.

[Creotor]

Fair enough, though in America we consider a number with a period to be what we call a 'decimal'. Maybe they should consider changing to the metric system.

That's weird, guess they already fixed it in the original, which is what I was going by.

[Allybeboba]

Since this thread got locked.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...inting-to-leak

Now, this article from CNET states 'cyberslueths' decided Russia hacked the DNC.
https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news...-dnc-election/

This article from the Washington Post states that a 'story' casts doubt on Russian hack of the DNC.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...n-hack-of-dnc/

This article from CNN states it was a 'one typo' that helped let the Russian hackers in.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politi...csr/index.html

And one from the New York Post stating the DNC hack was an inside job.
https://www.nypost.com/2017/08/15/ne...ot-russia/amp/

[Skroe]

Uh-huh.


The Mueller Missile is still locked on target.

Yeah we know, the fall of Trump is hitting some of you folks real hard. Don't worry, we'll only aim for the head and not the balls while we kick you when you're down.

I suppose it's pretty funny some people still want to defend the weakest President since John Tyler though.

[Belize]

Why does anyone still link the NY Post?
What's next, The Enquirerer?