1. #1
    Deleted

    New York Times: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/o...diversity.html


    There are many actors in the whole Google/diversity drama, but I’d say the one who’s behaved the worst is the C.E.O., Sundar Pichai.

    The first actor is James Damore, who wrote the memo. In it, he was trying to explain why 80 percent of Google’s tech employees are male. He agreed that there are large cultural biases but also pointed to a genetic component. Then he described some of the ways the distribution of qualities differs across male and female populations.

    Damore was tapping into the long and contentious debate about genes and behavior. On one side are those who believe that humans come out as blank slates and are formed by social structures. On the other are the evolutionary psychologists who argue that genes interact with environment and play a large role in shaping who we are. In general the evolutionary psychologists have been winning this debate.

    When it comes to the genetic differences between male and female brains, I’d say the mainstream view is that male and female abilities are the same across the vast majority of domains — I.Q., the ability to do math, etc. But there are some ways that male and female brains are, on average, different. There seems to be more connectivity between the hemispheres, on average, in female brains. Prenatal exposure to different levels of androgen does seem to produce different effects throughout the life span.

    In his memo, Damore cites a series of studies, making the case, for example, that men tend to be more interested in things and women more interested in people. (Interest is not the same as ability.) Several scientists in the field have backed up his summary of the data. “Despite how it’s been portrayed, the memo was fair and factually accurate,” Debra Soh wrote in The Globe and Mail in Toronto.

    Geoffrey Miller, a prominent evolutionary psychologist, wrote in Quillette, “For what it’s worth, I think that almost all of the Google memo’s empirical claims are scientifically accurate.”

    Damore was especially careful to say this research applies only to populations, not individuals: “Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population-level distributions.”

    That’s the crucial point. But of course we don’t live as populations; we live our individual lives.

    We should all have a lot of sympathy for the second group of actors in this drama, the women in tech who felt the memo made their lives harder. Picture yourself in a hostile male-dominated environment, getting interrupted at meetings, being ignored, having your abilities doubted, and along comes some guy arguing that women are on average less status hungry and more vulnerable to stress. Of course you’d object.

    What we have is a legitimate tension. Damore is describing a truth on one level; his sensible critics are describing a different truth, one that exists on another level. He is championing scientific research; they are championing gender equality. It takes a little subtlety to harmonize these strands, but it’s doable.

    Of course subtlety is in hibernation in modern America. The third player in the drama is Google’s diversity officer, Danielle Brown. She didn’t wrestle with any of the evidence behind Damore’s memo. She just wrote his views “advanced incorrect assumptions about gender.” This is ideology obliterating reason.

    The fourth actor is the media. The coverage of the memo has been atrocious.

    As Conor Friedersdorf wrote in The Atlantic, “I cannot remember the last time so many outlets and observers mischaracterized so many aspects of a text everyone possessed.” Various reporters and critics apparently decided that Damore opposes all things Enlightened People believe and therefore they don’t have to afford him the basic standards of intellectual fairness.

    The mob that hounded Damore was like the mobs we’ve seen on a lot of college campuses. We all have our theories about why these moral crazes are suddenly so common. I’d say that radical uncertainty about morality, meaning and life in general is producing intense anxiety. Some people embrace moral absolutism in a desperate effort to find solid ground. They feel a rare and comforting sense of moral certainty when they are purging an evil person who has violated one of their sacred taboos.

    Which brings us to Pichai, the supposed grown-up in the room. He could have wrestled with the tension between population-level research and individual experience. He could have stood up for the free flow of information. Instead he joined the mob. He fired Damore and wrote, “To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not O.K.”

    That is a blatantly dishonest characterization of the memo. Damore wrote nothing like that about his Google colleagues. Either Pichai is unprepared to understand the research (unlikely), is not capable of handling complex data flows (a bad trait in a C.E.O.) or was simply too afraid to stand up to a mob.

    Regardless which weakness applies, this episode suggests he should seek a nonleadership position. We are at a moment when mobs on the left and the right ignore evidence and destroy scapegoats. That’s when we need good leaders most.
    Woot ?! I never thought I'd agree with NYT.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Why do we need another thread for this Google shit?

    Also really? The CEO should resign because some random guy in his company got fired? Jesus Christ what a bunch of whiny SJW bullshit.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  3. #3
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    I'm shocked this is a NYT article. Wow, thought the media was all on the side of demonizing the guy who wrote the memo.

  4. #4
    Yea he fucked up. But only insofar that he made a decision that is anti scientific because I too believe that the memo was correct based on the information the author has gathered.

    But where he didn't fuck up was to preserve the PC cult that currently drives all these companies. Media is full of new age people who buy into all of this, so creating a media shitstorm would have been a greater disaster than what Google is experiencing right now.

    As such, his decisions were correct as a business decision. The author of the memo was made toxic by the media.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Dangg's Avatar
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    I hope they replace him with a woman for more diversity.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangg View Post
    I hope they replace him with a woman for more diversity.
    A transgendered woman!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sztyrymytyry View Post
    Woot ?! I never thought I'd agree with NYT.
    NYT isn't a person. This is David Brooks writing specifically as David Brooks; Brooks is center-right columnist and this is a pretty typical view for him to hold. I basically agree with him, but I still think this post applies.

  8. #8
    Remember the rules, folks : if it's not a gun toting white ultra-conservative male, it's pandering and conspiracy.

  9. #9
    It's funny how in one thread people drool thinking about the idea of "the next Korean war" and in another they cry over one person being fired. I mean can we call them the hypocrite party already?

  10. #10
    I see it like this.

    Either....

    1. Being as men outnumber woman by a ratio of 4:1 Google is a incredibly sexist organization that shows male preference in hiring.

    2. The memo author is correct, that less women are getting into tech for various reasons, including some of the reasons the author listed.

  11. #11
    /looks at OP
    /bows out

  12. #12
    pajeets aren't good CEOs, who would've thought

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Radeghost View Post
    pajeets aren't good CEOs, who would've thought
    XD

    /10char

  14. #14
    You are vaguely aware, folks, that ''experts'' made little charts like this in the 1920 proving that dangerous inferior races were unable to be lawyers or doctors and were just good enough to be bossed around by whites ?

    Issue is, those dangerous filthy non Aryans were Italians and Poles. But those charts ''proved it'', isn' it ?

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    What a ridiculous fucking idea.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    NYT isn't a person. This is David Brooks writing specifically as David Brooks; Brooks is center-right columnist and this is a pretty typical view for him to hold. I basically agree with him, but I still think this post applies.

    Yeah this is true.

    Google's CEO should've said, maybe even yelled "everyone shut up! Don't make me come in there!" And the issue would've gone away. Maybe.

    But it's really complex, 50 women who work/worked at Google have filed a discrimination lawsuit and you don't want Google to become the target of women's groups because Google hates women, half the population and the biggest spenders in the market place.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Faux-feminists: "Outcomes (in a job I want) are always an indication of prejudice!"

    Normal people: "So what about inequalities in other jobs?"

    Faux-feminists: "False equivalency! #NotAllMen! Teach boys not to rape! If you're not an ally, you're a misogynist!"

    Normal people: "Uh...what?"
    Lol, true story mr. Cow

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Yeah this is true.

    Google's CEO should've said, maybe even yelled "everyone shut up! Don't make me come in there!" And the issue would've gone away. Maybe.

    But it's really complex, 50 women who work/worked at Google have filed a discrimination lawsuit and you don't want Google to become the target of women's groups because Google hates women, half the population and the biggest spenders in the market place.
    That's not really that complex, right? It's just an obvious grift that for some bizarre reason is backed by the force of law.

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