Online Dating, I forgot!

[Fencers]

I never dated anyone via an online service. The few I know that have reported using such a service claim that it;s mostly junk mail, bots and a whole lot of lonely white dudes at best.

Seems desperate.

[Freighter]

There are 4 male 7s for every female 7, if you cannot find someone of your level you're probably overestimating yourself.

What's the proof for this? Certainly doesn't seem to be the case in Singapore for tinder.

[pateuvasiliu]

What's the proof for this?

If there are roughly 4 men for every woman then there are roughly 4 hot men for ever hot woman.

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I never dated anyone via an online service. The few I know that have reported using such a service claim that it;s mostly junk mail, bots and a whole lot of lonely white dudes at best.

Seems desperate.

If you're working as a doctor or a cop or in places where you aren't allowed to date co-workers your dating prospects are pretty limited.

What's wrong with being a white dude?

[Freighter]

If there are roughly 4 men for every woman then there are roughly 4 hot men for ever hot woman.

You keep saying this with no proof for the claim.

[pateuvasiliu]

You keep saying this with no proof for the claim.

It's a sensible estimate. The real number's probably 10:1 or worse. No company is going to admit it's 90% men since that would scare away more male customers, so they'll claim it's 50-50.


If you read a bit about user's experiences you'll see that women are swarmed with messages and men have a hard time getting dates which suggests men outnumber them heavily.

[Freighter]

It's a sensible estimate. The real number's probably 10:1 or worse. No company is going to admit it's 90% men since that would scare away more male customers, so they'll claim it's 50-50.


If you read a bit about user's experiences you'll see that women are swarmed with messages and men have a hard time getting dates which suggests men outnumber them heavily.

You can't be swarmed with messages on tinder unless you swipe right on everyone.

[moremana]

Internet dating, too me just sounds lazy. If you want to meet people that have the same interests as you, go do those things. Thats where they are at.

[pateuvasiliu]

You can't be swarmed with messages on tinder unless you swipe right on everyone.

It's not just Tinder I am talking about, but even on Tinder you have a lot of average chicks having a lot of ridiculous demands, which in turn means they can afford to have ridiculous demands.


Average women + ridiculous demands = they have a large pool to choose from

[Mistame]

I understand it fine, you don't seem to. Most men on tinder are not attractive and there are few to choose from as a result unless you want to date uglies.

If you understood it, you wouldn't be arguing with him. Men don't (usually) wear makeup, so the standard of comparison is without makeup. If you're a 5 and makeup makes you look like an 8, you're still a 5. With men, a 5 is a 5. Not that I have a problem with makeup, mind you, but the confidence boost from makeup tends to make women overshoot their level. Mix that in with the fact that most societies still suffer from a case of "pussy worship" (women are "special" because they have vaginas), well, there ya go. Maybe we need to reverse the roles for a few decades and let women see what it's like to be judged on your natural looks and to wake up to someone who's scary-looking without face paint.

[Tennis]

Sounds more like someone is bitter that you're not getting any matches.

If it was just about matches he could lower his standards. That's what many people do.

[Pendulous]

I never dated anyone via an online service. The few I know that have reported using such a service claim that it;s mostly junk mail, bots and a whole lot of lonely white dudes at best.

Seems desperate.

Can partially confirm. Spent money to see who my "likes" were on OkCupid. Vast majority of them were bots that for whatever reason (money) weren't banned. Also a lonely white dude.

By the way, I used OkCupid because it's the only service I've found that allows communication without making you spend money. You can see mutual "likes" for free; the only reason to spend money is to see who has liked you but you haven't.

[Mistame]

Can partially confirm. Spent money to see who my "likes" were on OkCupid. Vast majority of them were bots that for whatever reason (money) weren't banned. Also a lonely white dude.

By the way, I used OkCupid because it's the only service I've found that allows communication without making you spend money. You can see mutual "likes" for free; the only reason to spend money is to see who has liked you but you haven't.

Plenty of Fish is similar but more widely used. A lot of people claim it's a "hook up" site like Tinder but it's really not. There's a mix of everything on there. And the "premium" just allows you to see the "Wants to Meet Me" bit. You can communicate for free. OKCupid is mostly scammers.

[pateuvasiliu]

Can partially confirm. Spent money to see who my "likes" were on OkCupid. Vast majority of them were bots that for whatever reason (money) weren't banned. Also a lonely white dude.

By the way, I used OkCupid because it's the only service I've found that allows communication without making you spend money. You can see mutual "likes" for free; the only reason to spend money is to see who has liked you but you haven't.

Isn't Tinder free?

[Freighter]

There are 4 male 7s for every female 7, if you cannot find someone of your level you're probably overestimating yourself.

Okay, so I took pictures of everyone I swiped for some minutes, if it hadn't been so time consuming I'd do it for 100.

http://i.imgur.com/5js8R0l.jpg

None of those are what I'd consider hot men, didn't swipe right on anyone.

[pateuvasiliu]

If you understood it, you wouldn't be arguing with him. Men don't (usually) wear makeup, so the standard of comparison is without makeup. If you're a 5 and makeup makes you look like an 8, you're still a 5. With men, a 5 is a 5. Not that I have a problem with makeup, mind you, but the confidence boost from makeup tends to make women overshoot their level. Mix that in with the fact that most societies still suffer from a case of "pussy worship" (women are "special" because they have vaginas), well, there ya go. Maybe we need to reverse the roles for a few decades and let women see what it's like to be judged on your natural looks and to wake up to someone who's scary-looking without face paint.

That's a factor but I'd say it's a small one. See it doesn't matter if women think they're an 8 ( even if they're a 5 ) because the hot dudes are going to go out with legit hot women not fake hot women. So that will leave them dateless.

In theory, in a 1:1 environment.

But dating sites are not 1:1, men vastly outnumber women, which means fake 8s are now barraged by thirsty dudes, making them think they are legitimately hot and raising their standards.

[shadowmouse]

What are the differences between high context and low context?

There are enough that people write books on them.

Let me try to give you something really short and oversimplified to help show the difference. First here are some notes from: http://www2.pacific.edu/sis/culture/...igh_and_Lo.htm

High Context --

High use of nonverbal elements; voice tone, facial expression, gestures, and eye movement carry significant parts of conversation.

Verbal message is implicit; context (situation, people, nonverbal elements) is more important than words.

Verbal message is indirect; one talks around the point and embellishes it.

Communication is seen as an art form—a way of engaging someone.

Disagreement is personalized. One is sensitive to conflict expressed in another's nonverbal communication. Conflict either must be solved before work can progress or must be avoided because it is personally threatening.

Low Context --

Low use of nonverbal elements. Message is carried more by words than by nonverbal means.

Verbal message is explicit. Context is less important than words.

Verbal message is direct; one spells things out exactly.

Communication is seen as a way of exchanging information, ideas, and opinions.

Disagreement is depersonalized. One withdraws from conflict with another and gets on with the task. Focus is on rational solutions, not personal ones. One can be explicit about another's bothersome behavior.

One example of this may be playing out in this thread with the back and forth between @pateuvasiliu and @Freighter. He keeps going on about math, she keeps answering with social dynamics. They both analyze the problem through their respective filters, but math isn't going to persuade her and he won't let go of math to understand her point.

For a personal example, I've noted that Fiancee 2.1 doesn't speak English and my Chinese is at best phrasal and applies to limited situations like dining. In a low context environment, that just wouldn't work. We'd be missing an important tool because "Verbal message is explicit. Context is less important than words. Verbal message is direct; one spells things out exactly." She is, however, high context and I've been here for 17 years so I've sort of learned to follow the signals -- and since we've know each other for seven years she has learned to hit me between the eyes hard enough with the clues to get my attention. For us, communication is less about words and fits the high context model better: "High use of nonverbal elements; voice tone, facial expression, gestures, and eye movement carry significant parts of conversation. Verbal message is implicit; context (situation, people, nonverbal elements) is more important than words."

I'm eating breakfast. I don't like to eat a significant amount for breakfast, I feel like it slows me down. She is trying to get ready for a day at work, she knows that I don't like to eat much for breakfast, I even told her that I knew she was busy and I'd just have some yogurt. Nope, I've got a plate stacked with steamed buns, steamed bread, and two hard boiled eggs, with a bowl of congee on the side. Why? Because it shows she cares about me and wants to take care of me. "Have you eaten yet" is central enough to the culture that it is used as a greeting, so it is important to her that I start the day with a good meal. Why am I going to eat it all? It shows that I appreciate her effort. It is more than I intended to eat, but she is charming about fussing over me. Later, if she gets busy at work she won't worry about me because she knows she fed me a big breakfast. Our day tends to be full of things like that.

[pateuvasiliu]

Okay, so I took pictures of everyone I swiped for some minutes, if it hadn't been so time consuming I'd do it for 100.

http://i.imgur.com/5js8R0l.jpg

None of those are what I'd consider hot men, didn't swipe right on anyone.

What's your point? Yes, if your standards are high it's not going to be easy to find someone.

But for a man with equally high standards it's going to be even harder.

I really don't get what's so difficult to comprehend.

Men outnumber women massively so it's going to be harder for a man to find X than it's going to be for a woman to find the male equivalent of X.

[Mistame]

Okay, so I took pictures of everyone I swiped for some minutes, if it hadn't been so time consuming I'd do it for 100.

http://i.imgur.com/5js8R0l.jpg

None of those are what I'd consider hot men, didn't swipe right on anyone.

So, you're making his case for him? None of those guys are "hot", no. But neither are you.

[pateuvasiliu]

So, you're making his case for him? None of those guys are "hot", no. But neither are you.

Yeah she's basically proving what I'm saying, honestly.

Even without the theory/math which makes it obvious.

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There are enough that people write books on them.

Let me try to give you something really short and oversimplified to help show the difference. First here are some notes from: http://www2.pacific.edu/sis/culture/...igh_and_Lo.htm

High Context --

High use of nonverbal elements; voice tone, facial expression, gestures, and eye movement carry significant parts of conversation.

Verbal message is implicit; context (situation, people, nonverbal elements) is more important than words.

Verbal message is indirect; one talks around the point and embellishes it.

Communication is seen as an art form—a way of engaging someone.

Disagreement is personalized. One is sensitive to conflict expressed in another's nonverbal communication. Conflict either must be solved before work can progress or must be avoided because it is personally threatening.

Low Context --

Low use of nonverbal elements. Message is carried more by words than by nonverbal means.

Verbal message is explicit. Context is less important than words.

Verbal message is direct; one spells things out exactly.

Communication is seen as a way of exchanging information, ideas, and opinions.

Disagreement is depersonalized. One withdraws from conflict with another and gets on with the task. Focus is on rational solutions, not personal ones. One can be explicit about another's bothersome behavior.

One example of this may be playing out in this thread with the back and forth between @pateuvasiliu and @Freighter. He keeps going on about math, she keeps answering with social dynamics. They both analyze the problem through their respective filters, but math isn't going to persuade her and he won't let go of math to understand her point.

For a personal example, I've noted that Fiancee 2.1 doesn't speak English and my Chinese is at best phrasal and applies to limited situations like dining. In a low context environment, that just wouldn't work. We'd be missing an important tool because "Verbal message is explicit. Context is less important than words. Verbal message is direct; one spells things out exactly." She is, however, high context and I've been here for 17 years so I've sort of learned to follow the signals -- and since we've know each other for seven years she has learned to hit me between the eyes hard enough with the clues to get my attention. For us, communication is less about words and fits the high context model better: "High use of nonverbal elements; voice tone, facial expression, gestures, and eye movement carry significant parts of conversation. Verbal message is implicit; context (situation, people, nonverbal elements) is more important than words."

I'm eating breakfast. I don't like to eat a significant amount for breakfast, I feel like it slows me down. She is trying to get ready for a day at work, she knows that I don't like to eat much for breakfast, I even told her that I knew she was busy and I'd just have some yogurt. Nope, I've got a plate stacked with steamed buns, steamed bread, and two hard boiled eggs, with a bowl of congee on the side. Why? Because it shows she cares about me and wants to take care of me. "Have you eaten yet" is central enough to the culture that it is used as a greeting, so it is important to her that I start the day with a good meal. Why am I going to eat it all? It shows that I appreciate her effort. It is more than I intended to eat, but she is charming about fussing over me. Later, if she gets busy at work she won't worry about me because she knows she fed me a big breakfast. Our day tends to be full of things like that.

e keeps going on about math, she keeps answering with social dynamics.

I am aware of the social dynamics, you just have to go to any forum about dating sites and most men will complain about how it's almost impossible to get any as an average guy.

The only answer to that is that average women date above the level of average men. Why? Because the ratio allows them to.

See, if there was a man for every woman the 8 men would go with 8 women, the 7 with 7s and so on ( on average, there are exceptions )

But since the ratio is humongously in favor of men, that means a woman gets to choose and her standards go higher because this choice creates the illusion of higher value than what reality is.

[Freighter]

What's your point? Yes, if your standards are high it's not going to be easy to find someone.

My standards aren't high. It's just that tinder is filled with men like what I just linked, there's no choice among them. They're ugly.