Lies.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yes, it is lying by omission, and it is actually explicitly stated when you swear in as a witness in court.

You are asked to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. These are 3 separate ways to tell lies.

1) To tell the truth is simply not to state something that is false.

2) To tell the whole truth is not to omit a portion of the truth.

3) To state nothing but the truth is not to intermingle the truth with opinion, especially to lead people to a conclusion counter to the truth.

Fake news sites rely on all three of those methods. Bad news sites (like Huffington Post and Fox News) tends to use methods 2 and 3 much more often than method 1 (although neither is above doing that either); albeit they aren't lying all the time, unlike the fake news sites that are lying pretty much always.

Yep pretty damn spot on, I think the truth is if they told the truth, eh, I am of the opinion not only would all their audiences hate it, but their funding would dry up pretty damn fast.

[Leih]

I'm pretty much a habitual liar. The vast majority of things I say are total fabrications, including this.

[Xargoth6634]

I don't believe in the idea of lying by omission. I don't lie at all to close friends/family, but outside of that I'm not too concerned about it.

[Alydael]

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I can't say you are wrong, I mean lies can rip you apart in side, and often I think Karma which I see as rationing doesn't really exist. Good guys do NOT always win, the Bad guy doesn't always loose and get his just deserts, and the truth and lies can sometimes be besides the point.

In the face of a choice it is often what we think we should have and how we see things which is how we are going to operate.

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My understanding of karma is a little different. I guess I take a more traditional view on it than the modern view.

For Karma, you can't really apply the "good guys do not always win, bad guys, etc" adage. You only view someone else's life from the outside- it is difficult to tell if they actually "won" or "lost," because that depends on what their focus is and what is important to them.

You might look at a "good guy" who lost his fortune and say "see- good guys don't always win". Maybe he didn't care so much about his fortune (which led to him losing it) and his primary care was to get this girl he has been dying to date. So maybe he got the girl and lost the money- but to him that is a "win," although to everyone looking- he is broke, so he lost.

To really understand karma, you have to accept that you will never understand another person's karma and whether they "won" or not. Karma is also not about "winning." It's about paying your dues.

It's about fixing your mistakes and crafting a better future for yourself through consciously choosing the right path and discarding the garbage way.

If you follow the Buddhist belief of "karma" there is also an "eternal" karma. The "eternal" karma is your karma from all your past deeds (in past lives even). These karmatic influences form "chains" around you that bind you to the physical realm (the cycle of life and death). If you want to control your own destiny and evolve past the physical form- you have to clear your past misdeeds (break free of your chains). Then you become enlightened and walk your own path.

I am not sure about all of that, but I do believe in karma.

Science has already proven that everything you do affects you in some way, physical or mentally. It leaves it's stamp on you, for good or ill. Even just the act of observing something changes the person observing it and the thing that is observed. Is that so different from karma?

As for lying- another reason I don't lie is because I have faith in my ability to deal with the truth. Even if it will be messy, I feel comfortable that I can tell someone the truth and deal with whatever fallout may come of it.

Even if it cause a big loss for me- I would rather come from a place of truth and walk the right path (and deal with those consequences) than to deal with the consequences of a bunch of lies and deceit.

[Deleted]

Of course not volunteering your entire life story with extreme specifics every single time anyone asks you any question is not the same as lying.

Someone asks you, like..."so, what did you do yesterday?" You tell them something like "well, nothing much...watched some TV, played a couple games on the computer." You're already omitting a whole bunch of shit.

You don't say "Well at 6:13 in the morning I woke up. I opened my eyes, looked around, and realized I was in my bed. I pulled off the covers and sat up at the edge of my bed. I yawned, stretched, then got up. I walked to the light switch and turned on the lights. I scratched my ass. I walked over to the toilet, grabbed the handle of the toilet door, opened the toilet door, went inside the toilet, closed the toilet door, locked the toilet door. I looked in the mirror. I yawned again. I opened the toilet lid, dropped my pants, and sat on the toilet seat. I started to take a sh..."

You get the drift. This would be not omitting anything, whilst answering the question "what did you do yesterday." Should be pretty damn obvious why they're not the same thing.

[dacoolist]

Nothing in 2017 is black and white anymore - everything is grey area..

Little lies, or omitting the truth: All very complicated pending wtf is going on.

Tons of great examples in the thread already

[Doctor Amadeus]

My understanding of karma is a little different. I guess I take a more traditional view on it than the modern view.

For Karma, you can't really apply the "good guys do not always win, bad guys, etc" adage. You only view someone else's life from the outside- it is difficult to tell if they actually "won" or "lost," because that depends on what their focus is and what is important to them.

You might look at a "good guy" who lost his fortune and say "see- good guys don't always win". Maybe he didn't care so much about his fortune (which led to him losing it) and his primary care was to get this girl he has been dying to date. So maybe he got the girl and lost the money- but to him that is a "win," although to everyone looking- he is broke, so he lost.

To really understand karma, you have to accept that you will never understand another person's karma and whether they "won" or not. Karma is also not about "winning." It's about paying your dues.

It's about fixing your mistakes and crafting a better future for yourself through consciously choosing the right path and discarding the garbage way.

If you follow the Buddhist belief of "karma" there is also an "eternal" karma. The "eternal" karma is your karma from all your past deeds (in past lives even). These karmatic influences form "chains" around you that bind you to the physical realm (the cycle of life and death). If you want to control your own destiny and evolve past the physical form- you have to clear your past misdeeds (break free of your chains). Then you become enlightened and walk your own path.

I am not sure about all of that, but I do believe in karma.

Science has already proven that everything you do affects you in some way, physical or mentally. It leaves it's stamp on you, for good or ill. Even just the act of observing something changes the person observing it and the thing that is observed. Is that so different from karma?

As for lying- another reason I don't lie is because I have faith in my ability to deal with the truth. Even if it will be messy, I feel comfortable that I can tell someone the truth and deal with whatever fallout may come of it.

Even if it cause a big loss for me- I would rather come from a place of truth and walk the right path (and deal with those consequences) than to deal with the consequences of a bunch of lies and deceit.

I don't agree, but at least you can break it down as far as your reasons.

I think not to say you are wrong, but my problem with what you have said and why I don't agree is that, I think in many ways it is rationing. Which isn't to say that isn't implied we all do that anyways.

But what is more specific about this is kind of like Luck, Something else I don't believe in but has very much the same kind of similarity as most beliefs. If you do this or do that then it's luck, but if you do this or do that well then it's bad luck, but however if you do all this or you do all that well that really isn't exactly how good or bad luck work.

I mean it either works and follows it's own rules or it doesn't. Karma for example is about truth that there is always a cause and effect, and science has sort of ironed that out, however without any general specifics like "Why a Placebo effect works" I mean one could always go as far as they want with I don't know or an idea.

Ok good guys don't always win, bad guys don't always loose isn't how Karma works, because in your belief those are perspectives, but maybe what goes around comes around in what may or may not be in equal and exact measure, if so doesn't that kind of cancel out Karma altogether.



I will give you a completely different example but something along the similar theme. The planet, and all the things on it will all die eventually some day from a huge explosion of fire from the sky.

Now am I prophet, seer, do I have some kind of psychic ability, or gift of prediction, OR am I just some dude with some random collection of knowledge maybe making an educated but random guess on something that given enough time would probably fill itself out anyways?

If so, what would you call that?

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Of course not volunteering your entire life story with extreme specifics every single time anyone asks you any question is not the same as lying.

Someone asks you, like..."so, what did you do yesterday?" You tell them something like "well, nothing much...watched some TV, played a couple games on the computer." You're already omitting a whole bunch of shit.

You don't say "Well at 6:13 in the morning I woke up. I opened my eyes, looked around, and realized I was in my bed. I pulled off the covers and sat up at the edge of my bed. I yawned, stretched, then got up. I walked to the light switch and turned on the lights. I scratched my ass. I walked over to the toilet, grabbed the handle of the toilet door, opened the toilet door, went inside the toilet, closed the toilet door, locked the toilet door. I looked in the mirror. I yawned again. I opened the toilet lid, dropped my pants, and sat on the toilet seat. I started to take a sh..."

You get the drift. This would be not omitting anything, whilst answering the question "what did you do yesterday." Should be pretty damn obvious why they're not the same thing.

Well some bit of what you are saying is rationing although I would agree you aren't off the mark, I think TV has done a great mind fuck on people not only in what to expect from everything like there some kind of magic or some shit, but the truth and why people do what they do can be simple, but that still doesn't settle it always.

I will say bottom line if you KNOW something that someone needs to know or wouldn't know and you specifically work not to tell them, I would for sure say that is a lie, to rationalize it as well, OK I mean the car I sold someone isn't going to last forever anybody with good sense knows that, TRUE!

However if you sold something in bad faith counting on someone not to do their diligent whether they should or not, and you neglect to tell them there is something wrong with the car you are about to sell that would assure they wont be driving it but maybe over a month and it breaks down, UH yeah, not telling them that I would have to say is a lie, and most people know damn well that is a lie.

[Airlick]

Lying is often bad, but if it doesn't cause harm to anyone, or actually benefits the person concerned, then I'd say it could be justified. I don't really lie myself, but I can imagine situations where telling a lie is not 100% bad.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Nothing in 2017 is black and white anymore - everything is grey area..

Little lies, or omitting the truth: All very complicated pending wtf is going on.

Tons of great examples in the thread already

I think the word you might be looking for is courage, I mean I know I do the wrong thing more often than I do things right, I am no saint, I lie very often and as no excuse I assume most people do to, I make it a point to work not to.

But it is difficult, and the folly of that effort is that if someone gets too into lying, they eventually do it over little or stupid things that there is no point for not because they are evil per say, but it becomes second nature, and that can even be a problem like say an alcoholic who can't stop. A person lies their entire life, eventually they can't even tell the truth because they don't really know how they lied to themselves so long they don't even know how to ask for forgiveness, and can't trust themselves.

That is a bad place to be, and if you are correct as a collective, then we are fucked because that is something we all need to be able to do as a whole.


None of us want to go the speed limit, nobody ever wants to wait in line, nobody ever wants to be told NO, which isn't the same as saying we should learn to accept No just because, but we shouldn't always assume because we don't like something there isn't a reason, a process, whether we like it or not.

I think that's why for instance we have the constitution, not because things can't be black or white, but that we need to recognize even if we don't want them to we need to try to strive to be fair in spite of our weakness.

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Lying is often bad, but if it doesn't cause harm to anyone, or actually benefits the person concerned, then I'd say it could be justified. I don't really lie myself, but I can imagine situations where telling a lie is not 100% bad.

Hahah As I said I would equate this to drinking alcohol, drinking isn't good for you, ask any kid that has their first sip gives you that look and goes what the fuck is this.

What do you tell them honestly?


Drinking is good, you know it isn't, it sure as shit doesn't help you despite whatever, I mean in general it probably wont be the likely thing that really harms or even kills you but it isn't the most healthy thing you do, and that isn't really the point.

Most drinking is don't to numb the pain try to relax and what not, and I think mostly people that do drink if it came to children or young, are more alarmed by the truth that what the hell happens so young that we can't remember that anybody who has so much could ever feel that kind of need.


Lying is the same thing, it isn't good for anybody really,we do it, it serves a function and to an extend reason, and it and of itself probably wont be your ultimate undoing, but no, I disagree lying even a white lie, yeah it does harm.

I just think we rationalize it as compared to what.

[BuckSparkles]

I consider lying malicious. It's actively not telling the truth.

Omission is passively not telling. Not quite the same is lying, although obviously many people would get upset over omission as well.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I consider lying malicious. It's actively not telling the truth.

Omission is passively not telling. Not quite the same is lying, although obviously many people would get upset over omission as well.

Well if you mean ethically as in the law it goes to intent, however morally it doesn't unless your morals tell you that not letting someone know something you know that they should or would rather know and you don't, then you really can't consider lying malicious as it's actively not telling the truth.

They are the same damn thing.

[Noblia]

Well, my brother ripped the skin on his shin-bone while biking, needed twelve stitches. He send photos. My GF is queasy about those things, so I omitted the gruesome details including the photo and the emergency room and the stitches and just said he had an accident but all is fine.

What a liar I am. Maybe I really am, but I am fine with these sort of things. It is not all black and white for me. But I am okay if it is black and white for you.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ir-daily-lives I liked the line "The average number of lies told per day was 1.65. This strikes me as surprisingly low. I have the feeling that many participants were lying about the extent of their lying!"



Only they are so sneaky about it, that you rarely can nail them. They even have a hell of the time nailing them WHEN they are caught (like in the recent Diesel scandals)

Oh look, this yoghurt is healthy, it has low fat (but 25 grams of sugar as you can see in the fine print on the back and additives o_O )

Well it is lieing, there is no shade of grey. So for example...

So you did not tell your brothers GF the details of the injury and as such you lied to her. In this case your lie went unnoticed because your brother fully recovered and there was nothing to worry about. But lets say that after you told your brothers GF there was nothing to worry about and your brother had a turn for the worse? Lets say his wound got infected with necrotizing fasciitis(flesh eating bacteria). She would of found out about your deception and called you a liar outright?! or just mentally made a note not to ever trust you because you are a liar. You got a way with the deception because your brother came out of it fine, but had he not... then your brothers GF would of found out about your lie.

Thats a very good example... of how the end result in our minds a lie and deception are EXACTLY the same. I am glad you brought that example up. I hope it reinforces peoples understanding of what a lie is.

Personally I apply this to the news media more than anything. They like to give that 5 seconds of Trump not paying attention to a little handicapped kid but totally leave out the part where he was talking and shaking the kids hand etc. That is a FUCKING LIE!

[Deleted]

A lie is a lie.. if you deceive someone on purpose, youre lying. How is that complicated? In fact I think lying by omission is worse because it can be interpreted as a scam. For example. If you're trying to sell a car but you leave out important details, this is actually criminal while a normal lie.. like say saying its 6 pm when its actually 4pm is not.

[Archonite]

After voting i realized i might have answered the wrong question, since you pose two in your OP. I find an omission of important information to be the same as a lie, so thats what i voted for. To answer your second question, there are plenty of situations where lying or omitting information is the right thing to do. Being polite, especially to strangers requires many a white lie. The very common "How are you" question is meant to be answered in a short and positive manner, even if its not true.

[pateuvasiliu]

Yes, ommission is as bad as lying. If you know a bro's being cheated on and you don't tell him it's just as bad as lying about it.

[Noblia]

Well, it was my GF in the example not my brothers GF. My brother's GF was with him in the ER. Probably won't change your mind. It was the doctors who said, all is fine (after the 12 stitches) and I passed on that information - I left out the fact that he GOT these stitches and how it looked on the photo he send.

I actually see this as a different situation than your Trump example. In the Trump example it is omission to hurt somebody. In my case to protect somebody. Sure...you can call that a lie.

In which case ...yeah...we all probably lie all the time for whatever reasons and in most cases it is fine. I wonder how a 100% honest and blunt person would go through life. You couldn't even wish everybody a "Good morning" because it would be my first lie of the day...

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Fair enough...fits with my thoughts I am having right now. You get a present that you don't like...you better not say "Thank you" but "Oh..that sucks, keep it"

I actually do not wish anyone a good morning etc. unless I mean it.(you should see me at new years parties) Just like when I tell someone they are a cancerous, puss filled cunt!(several people come to mind) I try my best never to lie and never to leave out details(this excludes debates on forums...To much work digging up articles etc. to prove one point). I did not care when I was younger but now that I have gotten older I see the harm it can do and so I feel COMPELLED not to lie or deceive. But I do fail at it... sometimes the pressure to tell a lie is more then I can handle at that moment but in time I usually go back and fix it.

[Fencers]

I do not consider omission to be lying. However, it may be dishonest depending on the information requested or acted upon by another.

Personally, I attempt to be as honest and direct as possible with people. That is to lessen my own frustration. I have found that if I do treat others honestly and directly I have far fewer misunderstandings and a greater capacity to direct events to my will.

[Powerogue]

They're functionally identical. Though picking a time when to tell people things and the tone in which you do so can make a huge difference.

[Aachoo]

I do not like lying in general, but there are times and situations in which lying either outright or by omission may be for the greater good.