Blizzard just give up on LFR

[Karnige]

Im saying LFR has done irreparable damage to the game. It drove off the real fans and supporters of WoW for a quick buck and a bunch of casuals who want loot pinatas and loot slot machine levers to pull. LFR and LFG are the reason this games community has become a cesspool.

Do I think LFR will ever go away now? No. Would sub numbers drop if it went away? Probably. At least initially. Would it make the game and community better if it drove away the entitlement crowd? Absolutely.

blizzard has said time and time again that casuals have kept the game alive and well. why do you think they do these things?

[The Iron Fist]

Nope LFR is geared more toward the player that has no time for raiding. They have to juggle taking care of their children or a full time job or both. So besides letting those people quit the game and focus on being a parent or their job. Blizzard instead keeps them around for the 15 usd per month by at least giving them something to do by letting them see the content and get gear for free.

There is more to WoW than raiding. Those people used to play this game and were the majority of the playerbase before LFR ever existed. Your point is moot.

[Barnabas]

There is more to WoW than raiding. Those people used to play this game and were the majority of the playerbase before LFR ever existed. Your point is moot.

No my point is valid because there is no other reason to have that extra mode. A lot of people quit after LK because to them that was the end of the game and the changes cata brought made people kinda upchuck a little in their mouth. So then came lfr the saviour of wow supposedly that reeled those players back in? I don't believe it ever worked that way. Seeing how many quit again and again as each expansion since has come and gone.

[The Iron Fist]

blizzard has said time and time again that casuals have kept the game alive and well. why do you think they do these things?

Keep in mind those are the same people who decided the current legendary system is good, that RNG>effort, and have let PvP rot since MoP. Just because its Blizz saying it doesn't make them right.

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No my point is valid because there is no other reason to have that extra mode. A lot of people quit after LK because to them that was the end of the game and the changes cata brought made people kinda upchuck a little in their mouth. So then came lfr the saviour of wow supposedly.

Even Ghostcrawler regrets LFR in retrospect. Just like the devs adding flying into the game. Problem is once you add it you change the game and its hard to take back out. You chase off the people who don't like it and the people coming in who stay and are currently subbed get angry. See; flying in WoD

[Barnabas]

Keep in mind those are the same people who decided the current legendary system is good, that RNG>effort, and have let PvP rot since MoP. Just because its Blizz saying it doesn't make them right.

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Even Ghostcrawler regrets LFR in retrospect. Just like the devs adding flying into the game. Problem is once you add it you change the game and its hard to take back out. You chase off the people who don't like it and the people coming in who stay and are currently subbed get angry. See; flying in WoD

You sound like a politician. It's not difficult to cut out things that don't work. That is progress. Yeah they unsub and play overwatch or hearthstone. People have anyway. Plenty of people have found league of legends to be their wow killer. Removing something idiotic from the game isn't going to make the game worse.

[Raxz]

I think if the norm of LFR changes to "you actually have to do mechanics" for a long period and they actually successfully keep fights being like this (usually DPS/HPS cheese overcomes it) then the quality of players will improve simply because they're forced to. There's a large amount of people who stand in shit or outright AFK in LFR only because they know they don't have to do anything. But I've found that unless you get a simply terrible group of people who really can't play, a surprisingly healthy number of people will change their act if for a given wing this stops being true. I compare it to random BGs. Since there's a real risk of losing, people actually play, usually as good as they can manage even if their best is still crap. As a result sometimes you get absolute shitter teams but sometimes you're pleasantly surprised by a team that actually does objectives and listens. And it's just as easy to queue into BGs as it is LFR, so I think if handled correctly that the quality of LFR can be raised to at least this level of sort-of-half-decentness.

Back when ToV first dropped there was a bit of drama over it being too hard for LFR (Odyn wasn't being out-dpsed to skip his raid wipe phase yet, loads of people got one-shot by Guarm and Helya killed the group to attrition due to being a really long fight.. I think her HP or something like that was nerfed later on.). While getting determination stacks every time is annoying, I did find that more often than not the group eventually learned and eventually downed the boss before getting more than 3 or 4 stacks, granted, it was never all 25 players but if enough of your carry players (or otherwise lazy, potentially carry players) start caring and actually doing the fight right it becomes doable if painfully slow. Also have to keep in mind a wide diversity of players queue for LFR... one time I couldn't get a group to down Guarm until I politely asked someone to explain the mechanics in spanish, someone was able to and then we did it in one try lol.

If raids like this become the norm for LFR and actually stay that way for extended periods then the people who are simply too bad to do even that much will either lose interest or get better, and some of the players who refused to do LFR because it was too mindless might start actually doing it. So if this is kept up in the long term I theorize that we really do get a more engaging LFR with better (if slightly, but it's still something) players, less lazy players and content that doesn't feel like a slow painful rollercoaster ride. The trade off being that LFR is no longer quick and painless with guaranteed one-shots, so sucks for satchel farmers I guess?

[laumotor]

LFR don't know how to reject ppl,it always welcome ppl to try,that why it is very famous and popular,not like normal or heroic,you will get kick by unfair reason or will be encounter a bad experience.if i were dev,i will make lfr have a multi level select to get a better gear but will get kick if u not match the score of content,like if your current gears can put out 700k dps,but u only done 500k,you only get 1 score,if u need to soak something on your phase but u dont,u get 0 score,if the content need 8/10 to get gear and u only get 3/10 score then u dont have gear and maybe vote kick by party.

[david0925]

I'm pretty neutral on the subject because I see merits for both side of the argument

make LFR almost impossible to fail: people can see the encounter and raid layout with almost no fear of failing.
make LFR more challenging: people are more aware of kicking afk people and hence increase quality of the raid, however marginal.

I'm a mythic raider so what happens in LFR probably won't affect me, but just to humor the idea.

[TOM_RUS]

Nope LFR is geared more toward the player that has no time for raiding. They have to juggle taking care of their children or a full time job or both. So besides letting those people quit the game and focus on being a parent or their job. Blizzard instead keeps them around for the 15 usd per month by at least giving them something to do by letting them see the content and get gear for free.

Do you realize it's a lot faster to complete Normal than LFR? Full ToS normal clear takes like one, may be two hours? You will wait in LFR queue alone more than that, now add time it takes to clear trash, kill bosses and wipes to that... So your point about LFR for players without enough time is invalid.

[Super Kami Dende]

oh look a new and interesting thread about LFR.

Oh wait, nope same shit new day.

Protip: More people do LFR than Any other Raiding. It isn't going anywhere. Take it as it is, or don't do it.

[Glorious Leader]

Do you realize it's a lot faster to complete Normal than LFR? Full ToS normal clear takes like one, may be two hours? You will wait in LFR queue alone more than that, add time it takes to clear trash, kill bosses and wipes to that... So your point about LFR for players without enough time is invalid.

When you factor in the time it takes to get a group for a normal run this is probably not true on average and thats assuming that group has no wipes and doesnt have to get people to fill spots again. In additoon to this lfr does not have the odious burden of "link achieve and exhorbitant ilvl before we invite" that seems to be alls too commom with premade group finder.

I think the larger point was that lfr is commitment free which is a tremendous boon for casual players. It presents raid content in a fashion that they can access conveniently without having to commit to a particular block of time on a weekly basis. I.e its very casual

[Deleted]

Let ppl have their LFR but remove the stupid TF system from it atleast, same goes with set items. "Transmog" people can have their "lookalike" gear but just remove the bonuses from it, WoD lfr gear system was pretty decent.

[nekobaka]

The time factor and convenience of LFR being casual friendly only remains true as long as runs and queue times remain quick. Return to MoP SoO and they become prohibitive for those who are time limited. PuG raiding still remains the best way for someone who wants an engaging organized raiding experience without being bound to a set group and schedule. Chance of success however has always been the tradeoff for that convenience. LFR sacrifices the organized raiding experience for one of conveniences and success.

[Glorious Leader]

Let ppl have their LFR but remove the stupid TF system from it atleast, same goes with set items. "Transmog" people can have their "lookalike" gear but just remove the bonuses from it, WoD lfr gear system was pretty decent.

OR

Dont do lfr if you hate it. I find it amussing that other people are so quick to dictate what others should or shouldnt get. I suspect if they decided to gut gear from mythic or heroic youd object.

The WoD system was awful. It was pretty fucking clear that gear was meant as a dunce cap. Subsequently lfr participation crumbled and so did subs. Turns out you have to actually offer people incentive. Who would have thought?

[TOM_RUS]

When you factor in the time it takes to get a group for a normal run this is probably not true on average and thats assuming that group has no wipes and doesnt have to get people to fill spots again. In additoon to this lfr does not have the odious burden of "link achieve and exhorbitant ilvl before we invite" that seems to be alls too commom with premade group finder.

I think the larger point was that lfr is commitment free which is a tremendous boon for casual players. It presents raid content in a fashion that they can access conveniently without having to commit to a particular block of time on a weekly basis. I.e its very casual

There's always plenty of groups in group finder and it rarely takes longer than 15 min to assemble the raid and get going.
For normal mode I rarely being asked for achievements, ofc it helps to get into groups, but that's not required.
I've never had to "commit to a particular block of time on a weekly basis" for normal mode, I always join PuG raids on my alts when I feel comfortable.

[Perkunas]

Just cap the Titanforge to Heroic I-level from LFR and you'll stop 99% of the bitching. LFR isn't going anywhere. Pandora's box of over accessibility is opened and it can't be closed without taking a solid loss of accounts. So we're going to watch Blizzard buff it and then nerf it over and over again for years to come.

[WinningOne]

"As mentioned in the last developer Q&A, our philosophy toward Raid Finder in Legion has been to reduce the overall number of mechanics, but keep one or two important ones that players will need to react to in order to succeed"

I really don't get it and wonder if it is different on US realms but the experience on EU realms is always a the same.

A couple of people will follow tactics and essentially prop up the rest. Some will do decent dps or healing but ultimately will just tunnel and then there will be those that afk or just don't do even a minimum level.

No amount of work or though as intended by blizzard above will actually change this as we will continue to complete lfr through a combination of the players following tactics propping others up and stacks of determination.

If Blizzard generally want it engaging and making players have to wake up or learn the tactics through lfr they would be better placed to make it a single player experience like scenario where the player doesnt then have a choice but to learn.

As a raider I appreciate everyone has to start somewhere and am not even judging people based upon meters as mechanics are far more important but I seriously doubt that you learn more from lfr in its current state than any video you can watch.

I do appreciate blizzards intention but they have to wake up and realize what lfr currently is for the majority of the community and not rose tint the experience. Sometimes it is painless but many times it is a horrible mess and so long as it can be cleared with a small portion of the group trying people will not learn those encounters, will not learn basic mechanics and will not help with any development of new players into content beyond.

Please blizzard accept what LFR actually is like and put some thought into a different approach.

When was LFR anything other than an easy way for casual players to get near raid quality items? I don't understand why the complaint. There are several different level of difficulties. If you don't like how LFR works why don't you join a guild and do regular raiding?

[Deleted]

OH MY GOD WHO CARES ?

Dont like LFR ? dont do it

[Fafnar]

As a mythic (7/9 atm) raider, I really dont understand the point of such threads. Why the hell you people care about LFR?

LFR is for people that dont give a shit about the mechanics and dont wanna learn the game and just wanna say they killed the bosses: LET EM HAVE IT.
If you think its too easy there is normal, hc and even mythic to keep you challenged. Why the fuck you whine about LFR is really out of my mind.

Every time I do LFR I usually do, alone, 20% of the total dmg... i dont give a shit if people are afk or watching tv series, I just do it for runes and AP.

Do the same and mind your own fucking business, for once, and you'll live 100 years.

PS This AINT school, you dont have to teach anybody anything. If people want to learn, they have million ways to do it on their own, and if they dont wanna learn, dont give a shit, its their right to do so. God how much i hate people that FEEL the need they need to tell others what to do, mind your own fucking business.

QFT. Go in, do your best. Sometimes you'll die cause 90% of the raid can't find their ass with both hands and a mirror but that's just the price of LFR.

[zinfandel]

You're quitting because LFR is too hard? Is that a joke?

LFR is still insanely easy. 1 shot avatar repeatedly. KJ is a little bit harder. I'm so sorry that you can't que and afk and still get rewards.

I don't believe for a second you don't have 2 hours throughout the 7 days of the week to run normal. I work full time 6 days a week and take care of family and still manage to raid heroic/mythic 2 days a week. Maybe you're time management is really bad or maybe you just don't want to dedicate some time to raiding. Both are fine but quitting because LFR became a little bit harder is insane.

Other way round mate - it started off OK when it was launched but as it got easier and easier I lost interest. If they're adding some difficulty back in that sounds great. Maybe I was unlucky with pugging but I hit so many groups that wanted super high ilvl and the cheev of already having beaten the encounter within days of it being released. Just a pain I didn't need.