Neo Nazis losing jobs after being publicly outed

[Wyrt]

I see you like to ignore things that are.

No, you're trying to equate the number of lies Trump has told to every other politician. As if it's normal when it's not.

[niil945]

How about you try to elaborate why is it ok to fire someone over their personal beliefs that are protected under 1st Amendment, but not okay to fire someone else over theirs? Why don't you try to be consistent for a change?

Because this statement demonstrates you don't actually understand the 1st Amendment. The only thing that it does is protect you from the government censoring or jailing you over speech. And even then there are exceptions. Hate speech is not protected. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected. Beyond that, the 1st Amendment has zero bearing on the social repercussions of such speech. Welcome to real life. Where it's always been this way. And always will be. Don't like it? Too bad.

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One innocent caught up in this is one too many. When we start saying that's okay and a price that should be payed, we've fucked up. Innocent people are being painted as these nazis. This is why we have the rule of law. Mob mentality is very dangerous and always catches the wrong people, because the mob is idiotic. In countries like Germany, a rally like this wouldn't even be allowed whichd save a lot of people time, money and pain. In the US it is allowed, so deal with it.

And so is figuring out who these people are and posting it on the Internet, contacting their employers, etc. To use your own words, deal with it.

[Kiri]

Congratulations, you figured out US Politics! Trump is a liar, Hillary is a liar, Obama is a liar, Bush is a liar, Bernie is a liar, literally every single politician in history is a liar. So what's your point?...

In the world before Trump, a politician being called lying tended to lose at least a little political capital and credibility. More if it was an important lie. Trump has proven, however, that a certain subset of voters are virtually immune to this as long as the lies they hear conform to their world views. I mean these are the people that believe him when he calls unemployment numbers a hoax before he assumes office and then believe him when he uses those numbers (i.e. gained the same way) to show how much he has curbed unemployment. That is something that any other politician would have stumbled over. But with Trump, pointing out such lying simply results as being branded an 'enemy' and those voters believe him even more.

[Raakel]

I think emotionally it's right but technically a wrong move. You can't fire people for their political views even if they are "questionable". I'd say if these people where clearly identified comitting a crime or anything unconstitutional then it's ok as an employer to protect your company's reputation. But to denounce someone via twitter shouldn't autimatically lead to losing anyones job.

[Synros]

No, you're trying to equate the number of lies Trump has told to every other politician. As if it's normal when it's not.

Oh right, my bad. I forgot that Trump is Literal Hitler, which makes his lies more important than other politician's lies. The lies that led to the invasions of Iraq and Syria are nothing compared that time Trump lied about how many scoops of ice cream he got... My god, you are unbearable.

[Wyrt]

I think emotionally it's right but technically a wrong move. You can't fire people for their political views even if they are "questionable". I'd say if these people where clearly identified comitting a crime or anything unconstitutional then it's ok as an employer to protect your company's reputation. But to denounce someone via twitter shouldn't autimatically lead to losing anyones job.

Racism isn't just a political view.

Oh right, my bad. I forgot that Trump is Literal Hitler, which makes his lies more important than other politician's lies. The lies that led to the invasions of Iraq and Syria are nothing compared that time Trump lied about how many scoops of ice cream he got... My god, you are unbearable.

And with all the lies Trump has thrown around so casually how can we ever possibly trust him if we're put in a situation like Iraq again?

[Ravenblade]

As is the way with most business owners or managers they would be happiest if their employees had no opinions, required no breaks and no paychecks.
Since objectively speaking a 24/7 hard working human "machine" that does not complain and requires very little is often the most productive worker.

I think I have mentioned it before. There are companies where nobody really cares, smaller businesses, businesses which largely deal with facilities, construction or transports of goods. Businesses which revolve around "dead things" and could not be harmed unless you have a thing for vandalism too. Businesses where direct contact with human beings is part of your job the things can get a lot more tricky. A local business which doesn't have to fear a lot of competition might simply not care, a public institution where contact with "Untermenschen" is unavoidable does not just have to fear damage on their reputation.

However i would never advocate that corporations and employers are allowed to strip their employees of their freedoms and rights.
History has definitely shown us that, if given the chance, most people in power would do horrific exploitative things to their fellow men/women just to gain more power/$.

They do not at all. Businesses here have to tell you the rules and requirements before you sign up. If you change your views knowing the rules then you know what is at stake. On the other hand businesses cannot go out of their way either and will grant freedom of speech, but they don't have to bear the consequences of it. Hence why people sued their former employers when they were unjustly fired, but on the other hand sometimes also lost when they couldn't stand their ground in court about the reasons.

An employer is free to disagree with his employees when it comes to non-work topics.
If an employee is working improperly or being late or stealing then of course the employer can fire them.

Disagreeing with your employer is not what freedom of speech normally entails though, there are different types of management in companies too, some companies actually are run pretty authoritarian and on workplace certain political or religious debates are not wanted, some others give them all the free space they want. You can't really nail it down to a general case. Once you have read the rules you should get a clear picture about your company and it goes without saying that certain businesses or even public institutions simply have no heart for some good ol' swastika swinging at the weekend even if the employer grants you the right to disagree him with that.

But if a proper hardworking employee has some personal opinion about a race or a religion (or whatever), that employee should be free to voice such an opinion without the threat of being fired.
The employee should not disrupt the workplace or engage in idle chatter when working, but his speech should not be censured during breaks/pauses or outside of work.

As always basic human decency applies, you can not go around yelling screaming and harassing people like a rabid orangutan regardless of what you are saying.

Why should he do that? If I go to my boss and ask him "Hey, boss, I know I am working for 20 years here now but did it occur to you too that all the sand niggers and jews we are working for are kind of...below our level? Agree/disagree?" then what should he answer? "Well, I disagree, my friend. Have a nice day!". Maybe in Lalaland such a conversation will have exactly that type of course but in reality such a conversation will have consequences. In reality even when talking with co-workers will end up with certain conversations, subjects and opinions being forwarded to others, the social machine will run until your employers might get to hear about it no matter how hard you are working.

[Slant]

And with all the lies Trump has thrown around so casually how can we ever possibly trust him if we're put in a situation like Iraq again?

You'll soon find out.

[Synros]

In the world before Trump, a politician being called lying tended to lose at least a little political capital and credibility. More if it was an important lie. Trump has proven, however, that a certain subset of voters are virtually immune to this as long as the lies they hear conform to their world views. I mean these are the people that believe him when he calls unemployment numbers a hoax before he assumes office and then believe him when he uses those numbers (i.e. gained the same way) to show how much he has curbed unemployment. That is something that any other politician would have stumbled over. But with Trump, pointing out such lying simply results as being branded an 'enemy' and those voters believe him even more.

Perhaps if certain people on the Left weren't constantly demonizing a whole group of people for the way they originally voted, they'd consider other opinions than Trump. It's almost like when you call someone a racist, sexist, bigot 24/7 because they have different politics than you, you alienate them and they stick with what they got. It's almost like that's how the Left lost the election in the first place...

[Sama-81]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech means. It means you are free from consequences from the government. You are not free from social consequences. No one else has to put up with that shit, only the government does. The owner of the business has every right to fire someone for being racist.

Getting fired from a job isn't a social consequence, and while I believe (not sure) that you can fire someone willy-nilly due to political opinions in America, more or less at least, there certainly are more socially advanced countries where such a thing is straight out illegal. The basis for that being illegal, at least here in my country, is the same one underlying free speech. And I sure am glad that that's the case, I have to say, people absolutely should not be fired simply for holding political opinions (the individual behaving badly on work being another thing entirely, of course), be it crazy ass right wing extremists or be it crazy ass left wing extremists (or anything in between). It would be just as bad as firing someone due to their religious beliefs, for example, from a strictly moral point of view.

[Synros]

Racism isn't just a political view.



And with all the lies Trump has thrown around so casually how can we ever possibly trust him if we're put in a situation like Iraq again?

If we're ever put in a situation where we're dealing with Iraq again, you can thank the policies of the people who came before him. Just like how we're currently dealing with the North Korea threat, because Bill Clinton's policies gave North Korea the ability to develop nuclear weapons in the first place. You have every right to dislike Trump, no one is saying you don't. But when you constantly use him as a scapegoat for shit that's been going on long before he even announced his run, people tend to see you as insufferable. Like how I see you.

[niil945]

Perhaps if certain people on the Left weren't constantly demonizing a whole group of people for the way they originally voted, they'd consider other opinions than Trump. It's almost like when you call someone a racist, sexist, bigot 24/7 because they have different politics than you, you alienate them and they stick with what they got. It's almost like that's how the Left lost the election in the first place...

You mean by winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college?

I like how you dumb down hate speech and bigotry as "different politics". That's exciting and new.

[Wyrt]

Getting fired from a job isn't a social consequence, and while I believe (not sure) that you can fire someone willy-nilly due to political opinions in America, more or less at least, there certainly are more socially advanced countries where such a thing is straight out illegal. The basis for that being illegal, at least here in my country, is the same one underlying free speech. And I sure am glad that that's the case, I have to say, people absolutely should not be fired simply for holding political opinions (the individual behaving badly on work being another thing entirely, of course), be it crazy ass right wing extremists or be it crazy ass left wing extremists (or anything in between). It would be just as bad as firing someone due to their religious beliefs, for example, from a strict moral point of view.

Racism isn't a political position and it shouldn't be reduced to one.

[jibberbox85]

This will come to a screeching halt when someone is incorrectly identified, and then sues his former company for wrongful termination.

All this does, aside from reminding these folks how limited freedom of speech actually is, is guarantee that they'll wear masks etc next time.

Unfortunately, those type of scenarios could potentially give rise to more White Nationalism. The main issue with how this is being handled is that it's not going to resolve and or fix the problem. It could potentially make it worse.

[niil945]

Getting fired from a job isn't a social consequence, and while I believe (not sure) that you can fire someone willy-nilly due to political opinions in America, more or less at least, there certainly are more socially advanced countries where such a thing is straight out illegal. The basis for that being illegal, at least here in my country, is the same one underlying free speech. And I sure am glad that that's the case, I have to say, people absolutely should not be fired simply for holding political opinions (the individual behaving badly on work being another thing entirely, of course), be it crazy ass right wing extremists or be it crazy ass left wing extremists (or anything in between). It would be just as bad as firing someone due to their religious beliefs, for example, from a strictly moral point of view.

Attending an alt right Neo Nazi white nationalist rally isn't simply "holding political opinions". It's endorsing hate speech, violence, and all around bigotry. Getting fired from a job absolutely is a social consequence. It's certainly not a legal consequence. What fictional category would you put it in?

[Wyrt]

If we're ever put in a situation where we're dealing with Iraq again, you can thank the policies of the people who came before him. Just like how we're currently dealing with the North Korea threat, because Bill Clinton's policies gave North Korea the ability to develop nuclear weapons in the first place. You have every right to dislike Trump, no one is saying you don't. But when you constantly use him as a scapegoat for shit that's been going on long before he even announced his run, people tend to see you as insufferable. Like how I see you.

Maybe it'll be Syria. Or Venezuela. Or Iran. Or whatever other country Trump's threatened recently.

[Sama-81]

Racism isn't a political position and it shouldn't be reduced to one.

Neither is it illegal in any shape or form, and thereby irrelevant in that context. Unless the individual in question actually demonstrates that racism in the work place, of course, that would be another matter entirely. Besides, there are a ton of other positions just as bad in a normal work place, for example the class hatred that is rather common on the extreme left wing here - my point being, that drawing an arbitrary line at racism and nothing else, is a political stand point only.

[Acidbaron]

People who argue that one should not be fired for their actions and believes, since this is a combination of both.

I would argue that not all ideas are equal and if you embrace a certain ideology and openly go out and come out for it that there will be repercussions much like to anything else you do.

Now if you go out on the street with an idea that you like puppies and icecream, nobody will think anything off it perhaps asking why you would do it and maybe question your mental health a bit.

However when you endorse an ideology with a violent past and that promotes a way of thinking that isn't tolerated even by the letter of the law, such as discrimination based on skin color, you are simply in the wrong since that is what society decided on. Disagree with that all you want it won't change.

So now you speak about the left, the problem there is they can be accused of what exactly in their ideology? Naivety for the most part, clueless but those aren't hostile ideas with a violent past. Asking for more tolerance and less discrimination, equal rights, human rights those aren't hurting anyone, especially not when you consider the political landscape around the world. So when you go out and protest for less tolerance, more discrimination, less rights for others and no human rights for others.

You just stepped right into a big pile of shit and you won't win this, you never will. I also don't get what inspires these people to protest if we look at the reality of the situation.

Is there uncontrolled immigration going on somewhere? No. Is there a realistic chance of muslims taking over? Nope they have been here for decades and nothing has changed in a major way, we accommodate for some of their habits and pushed back where we found it going to far. Groups have radicalized but in the grand scheme of things the attacks are very few and we are far in the majority of ever having our ideals wiped away, another irrational fear i never got. Not to mention how counter productive it is to attack a community as a whole.

So really explain to me the need to protest? Centrum right rules over Europe, you have a far right looney tunes President in the White house, backed up by a far right taken over republican party in both congress and senate.

So can any of you explain to me why you need to protest when right to centrum right political class rules over almost all of the western nations?

Cause all i get out of this is irrational fear inspired by "propaganda" sites like infowars, where they tell people fluoride in the water makes people and frogs gay.

[Wyrt]

Neither is it illegal in any shape or form, and thereby irrelevant in that context. Unless the individual in question actually demonstrates that racism in the work place, of course, that would be another matter entirely. Besides, there are a ton of other positions just as bad in a normal work place, for example the class hatred that is rather common on the extreme left wing here - my point being, that drawing an arbitrary line at racism and nothing else, is a political stand point only.

It doesn't need to be illegal. It's a business, not the police. Having a racist employ can negatively affect business.

Free speech does not protect people from social consequences. Which being fired absolutely is.

[Deleted]

Attending an alt right Neo Nazi white nationalist rally isn't simply "holding political opinions". It's endorsing hate speech, violence, and all around bigotry. Getting fired from a job absolutely is a social consequence. It's certainly not a legal consequence. What fictional category would you put it in?

You know they used to fire people for being in, and supporting, the NAACP right?