"Link AOTC KJ or no invite"

[-Annomander-]

Oh wait, the reason of this thread is that you actually want to be carried in a group where everyone has wiped many times to get a kill while you think you're "entitled" to just skip all that and have them carry you.

Or maybe as a tank I'm just not a fan of wiping over and over because the rest of the raid can't soak meteors?

Or maybe I'm not a fan of being declined (or told not to sign up in the first place) for raid groups, simply because I haven't already beaten an encounter, when the only reason for me not defeating the encounter is down to the performance of the group as a whole.

Curve is not the indicator of player competence that people think it is. Someone who dies in the first 30 seconds of KJ still gets curve if their group beats the encounter.

[Fleckens]

I usually check the armory of people and when I see a fake ACM I kick the PoS at 15% health.

Unless it's because the guy was underperforming that's pretty much just being an asshole, so what if they used a fake achievement if they are pulling their weight and not fucking up on mechanics.

[Karon]

Unless it's because the guy was underperforming that's pretty much just being an asshole, so what if they used a fake achievement if they are pulling their weight and not fucking up on mechanics.

That's not the case tho.

90% of the random I let join are either doing terribly low dps or don't want to play most mechanics

[Frolk]

How do people even already have AOTC this early into the raid tier... My guild progression is still at 2/9 H, I wouldn't even want to imagine what AOTC is like.

"early into the raid tier" wat

[Ztranger]

Or maybe as a tank I'm just not a fan of wiping over and over because the rest of the raid can't soak meteors?

Or maybe I'm not a fan of being declined (or told not to sign up in the first place) for raid groups, simply because I haven't already beaten an encounter, when the only reason for me not defeating the encounter is down to the performance of the group as a whole.

Curve is not the indicator of player competence that people think it is. Someone who dies in the first 30 seconds of KJ still gets curve if their group beats the encounter.

It's pretty hard to kill HC KJ if people die early. Makes it a lot harder to meet the dps required to skip abilities (assuming HC geared raid). Tanks can soak all the big ones, thats what we did in our first guild kill, so don't think you can't soak just because you're a tank.

[Fleckens]

That's not the case tho.

90% of the random I let join are either doing terribly low dps or don't want to play most mechanics

But you still kick the 10% that do fine or what? And somehow I have a hard time seeing you killing the boss if most of your group is terrible.

[Vladinator]

Most importantly you should kid of know what to do, or at least meet expectations. People won't care unless you major mess up mechanics that one expect you to know in these AOTC groups. If you fake it and perform, no one will care or notice. Sadly if you need to learn the fight, you need to join the nicer 8/9 req groups and just wipe a ton.

In short you want to push the boss 80% before 2nd set of armageddons, then to 40% before second tank add/armageddon for the smoothest kill. Hardest part is when adds are up, and ~45% when you get all the mechanics at once. Save AOE for the add spawns, hero when he lands and P2 begins. Soak a lot, avoid more than 1 debuff from soaking at all times. Immunity when it's your turn to do the tank armageddon soak. Kite fireball by standing near it, not on top of the effect, at the edge of the rift and others need to stay away and make you a path for whoever does orbs.

[Meiffert]

How am I supposed to link AOTC KJ when i cant get into any groups to get AOTC KJ? LOgic?

Heroic KJ is a tough boss.
You are not supposed to learn and kill this boss in a quick PuG.

You should find a group (ideally, but not necessarily a guild group) that will progress and learn the fight. Learning this fight will take several hours, possibly over several nights, which is why you need an organized group that won't fall apart after a few wipes forcing you to start over.

Once you have learned and killed the boss a couple times, you will be able to group up with other players who have done so and kill the boss quickly in a few pulls.

[Nathanyel]

Join a shitty undergeared group that's progressing on the fight and learning it, stop trying to get carried.

It's usually the shitty undergeared group that demands only Mythic raiders join their Normal raid, to get carried.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This is why I dislike the addon. Ive never used it because I get AotC in the first week with my guild, but I don't just play 1 character, so if I want to take an alt into the raid, my curve means nothing because now everyone (despite asking for curve) looks at armoury, and of course my alt doesn't have the kills so its harder to raid with them. Cutting Edge however, instant inv, no matter who you are on lmao

Well, truth be told I haven't ran into a whole hell of a lot of trouble with this myself. Sure I hit AotC a week or two after raid release myself and sure sometimes people say to my alt "you don't got the kills" and I get denied. But when you have 15 tomb runs going odds are I am getting into one of them. That is also considering if alts in my guild just aren't running a normal/heroic as well for shits and grins which is how most of my alts have gotten geared.

Item level is still really king. If you walk into it with a 915 alt and link an achievement most people will just take it as gold and go. If you pull out a 882 and link an achievement odds are you are going to be raked over the coals as your toon is wowprogressed and ran though the armory. It is just the reality of the PUG world. I am not saying it is a super logical or even the best way to approach things but it is the reality of it.

Is the fake achievement addon stupid as all hell? Yes. Most certainly is. Is the need to have all of these things along with an insanely high item level to do content that makes it almost trivial stupid? Yes. Without a doubt. I mean the obvious solution is to make your own group and truth be told this has worked out for me really well in normal's. Heroic on the other hand I feel the PUG community is still a bit "behind the curve" but getting there. Not saying you cannot find a PUG that clears it. Just saying if you walk into every heroic PUG expecting to KJ or KJ dead than you might want to check expectations.

The wind of the whole situation is blowing towards sites like WoWProgress and the armory being used more than achievements. Mostly because of the fake bullshit. The few times it caused me a problem on an alt I link my main toon and it always worked out. Of course my toon names make it pretty clear I am the same person, they are in the same guild, and sure this is an advantage.

[PrivateDonut]

I have yet to fall for the fake achievement addon, considering I use a quick armory addon which allows me to quickly look someone up in the armory as they're queuing. So I make sure to check everyone out, before I sent out invites to ensure no one is trying to get into a carry group.

- - - Updated - - -

This is why I dislike the addon. Ive never used it because I get AotC in the first week with my guild, but I don't just play 1 character, so if I want to take an alt into the raid, my curve means nothing because now everyone (despite asking for curve) looks at armoury, and of course my alt doesn't have the kills so its harder to raid with them. Cutting Edge however, instant inv, no matter who you are on lmao

It depends on the person looking them up, because you can view the achievements as it's account wide. So if they take the extra few seconds, they can easily view that to ensure they actually got the kill some where on their account.

[Karon]

But you still kick the 10% that do fine or what? And somehow I have a hard time seeing you killing the boss if most of your group is terrible.

why would most of the group be terrible? There are guilds out there who fill in slots with randoms because the roster is rather limited.

And of course I kick them. If their shitty parents didn't teach them that lying is bad it's their fault, not mine.

If you are being honest about not having the kill it's something completely different.

[Fleckens]

why would most of the group be terrible? There are guilds out there who fill in slots with randoms because the roster is rather limited.

And of course I kick them. If their shitty parents didn't teach them that lying is bad it's their fault, not mine.

If you are being honest about not having the kill it's something completely different.

I kinda assumed we were talking about pugs in this thread, not guild groups that pug 1-2 people(but if you do that and kick them at the end that's a pretty dick move as well) and so if 90% of your group was terrible you would not be killing the boss in the first boss.

Also the issue there is that being honest is far less likely to get you into a group even if you are a good player. For example when I came back to the game around a month into WoD after taking a break during MoP it was really hard to get into pugs despite being appropriately geared due to not having the achievement, so I used the achievement faker back then and easily got in and was amongst the top dps and got the achievement. Kicking someone in that situation when you're about to kill the boss is just being an asshole. It's fine if you are okay with being that, but don't try and make excuses for it.

Also seems like you only have 1 KJ kill going by the armory in your signature, you're saying you kicked people for not having the achievement on a run where you didn't have it yourself either?

[Kapaya]

How do people even already have AOTC this early into the raid tier... My guild progression is still at 2/9 H, I wouldn't even want to imagine what AOTC is like.

I mean, lets be honest, you guys can't be the greatest if all you've achieved so far is 2/9HC. Not trying to be insulting or anything, but while 2/9HC is a challenge for your guild, it's a joke to others. My signature which was quoted from a Blizzard GM back in SoO PTR testing kinda explains it.

[pseudoJ]

Well its 930 now cos everyones pretty much 920 now. But it was 920 before, you just have to stay ahead of the average. Not talking bout equipped, when you q up all the leader see is your potential ilvl, i am only like 918 but they see 930. I can pull my weight though. Thats what i am telling OP to do if they want to stand out amongst all the applicants. Thats what i do every tier just get as high ilvl possible and skilled enough to do mechanics and pull your weight. Should be easy if you been getting 930 from weekly chest since raid opened.

There is "ahead of average" and then there is "retarded". 930 EQUIPED ilvl is mythic raider level and I doubt there is many people who haven't kill KJ hc and have that kind of gear...counting only actually useful gear. There is also a huge gap between like 925 and 930. I would argue that getting up to 920-922 is relatively easy and can be done in few weeks even when you are not lucky. Getting past 925 can be terrible. And no.. getting 930 is not easy if you are getting 930+ gear since the raid opened -- 1) not every item will fit 2) Set pieces will drag your gear down significantly, yet they are usually worth more than off-set piece due to set bonuses 3) Same goes for jewellery -- since it doesn't provide primary stats, you don't care about ilvl at all -- you should care only about the secondaries and their distribution -- e.g. I'm yet to find a neck which is better for my alt hunter than the 900 ilvl craft with 3k crit on it.

This is exactly the mentality of a guy who doesn't know what a good gear is and sees just item level.... Requiring people to have 930 ilvl gear is both stupid and ridiculous. I get the general idea and I agree with it (you want people who have gear to face the boss easily), however that would be in 920-925 range.

[MyndZero]

Make the run yourself? Logic.

[Rafoel]

Make the run yourself? Logic.

The one time I tried to make a group for heroic KJ, I spent 30 minutes finding people with actual ToS HC experience and preferably KJ kills - then healer DC-ed the moment I pulled (he clicked yes on ready check literally 10s earlier), we wiped, and 15 people left. Gave up after that.

... but I still have to kill it eventually. I guess I will try tomorrow again...

[evermynd]

The real question is why even bother requiring any achievement. Every time ive been asked to provide an achievement to get in a group, I join only to find most of the raid just faked theirs and have no clue how any of the mechanics work. You may as well not make it a barrier at that point.

[Karon]

I kinda assumed we were talking about pugs in this thread, not guild groups that pug 1-2 people(but if you do that and kick them at the end that's a pretty dick move as well) and so if 90% of your group was terrible you would not be killing the boss in the first boss.

Also the issue there is that being honest is far less likely to get you into a group even if you are a good player. For example when I came back to the game around a month into WoD after taking a break during MoP it was really hard to get into pugs despite being appropriately geared due to not having the achievement, so I used the achievement faker back then and easily got in and was amongst the top dps and got the achievement. Kicking someone in that situation when you're about to kill the boss is just being an asshole. It's fine if you are okay with being that, but don't try and make excuses for it.

Also seems like you only have 1 KJ kill going by the armory in your signature, you're saying you kicked people for not having the achievement on a run where you didn't have it yourself either?

Sorry for not clarifying that I was talking about a mostly guild group.

Nah, the progress in our guild has been horribly slow this tier, I've been doing this for Gul'Dan and will start doing it once we have Kil'Jaeden on farm

[PaladinBash]

Fake it. Lie. Get carried.

I'd say 'join a guild' but if you're pugging this shit, I'm giving you real answers you need to hear. Chances are if the raid wipes or succeeds based on you being mediocre or not knowing the mechanics beyond what a 2 minute Fatboss video shows you, it was a shit raid that's not going to kill shit. That's just a fact of pugging.