Black Seas of Kul Tiras

[Deleted]

Indeed, but even if we go by 3 weeks... the statement still stands.

ToV didn't release for a considerable time after EN, and then NH even further down the road.

Whereas Wrath actually had 3 separate locations at launch, Cataclysm had 3 separate locations at launch, and mind you, both of these places had technically a fourth, each:

Vault of Archavon and Baradin Hold, which both started with single bosses, but were added to in each patch.

Truly... Legion doesn't even come close. It's not even like EN was a large raid or anything. =/ Then ToV was a 3 boss raid... Finally NH arrives with 10, admirable... but after how many months?

Wrath:

(1)EoE: Malygos
(4)Vault of Archavon: Archavon, Emalon, Koralon, Toravon
(15)Naxx
(1)OS: Satharion
(14)Ulduar
(5)TotC
(1)Onyxia
(12)ICC
(1)RS: Halion

Wrath Total: 54 raid bosses (16 off them basicly reused)

Legion:

(15)Broken isles world bosses
(7)Emerald Nightmare
(3)Trial of Valor
(10)Nighthold
(9)Tomb of Sargeras
(11)Antorus
(6)Invasion points

Legion Total: 61, no reused(possibly more, realisticly its all we get)

Edit:

Cata:
(3)Baradin Hold
(6)Blackwing Descent
(4)Bastion of Twilight
(2)Throne of the four Winds
(7)Firelands
(8)Dragon Soul

Cataclysm Total: 30

[DeltrusDisc]

Wrath:

(1)EoE: Malygos
(4)Vault of Archavon: Archavon, Emalon, Koralon, Toravon
(15)Naxx
(1)OS: Satharion
(14)Ulduar
(5)TotC
(1)Onyxia
(12)ICC
(1)RS: Halion

Wrath Total: 54 raid bosses (16 off them basicly reused)

Legion:

(15)Broken isles world bosses
(7)Emerald Nightmare
(3)Trial of Valor
(10)Nighthold
(9)Tomb of Sargeras
(11)Antorus
(6)Invasion points

Legion Total: 61, no reused(possibly more, realisticly its all we get)

Edit:

Cata:
(3)Baradin Hold
(6)Blackwing Descent
(4)Bastion of Twilight
(2)Throne of the four Winds
(7)Firelands
(8)Dragon Soul

Cataclysm Total: 30

Please read the rest of our post history...

We were talking about raids at the beginning of the expansion.

I am well aware of how many bosses each expansion has had. -.-

Also... invasion points? World bosses? Don't be silly. We're talking about actual raids where some level of coordination is at play. Not "plant NPC with tons of health here in zone."

We're talking about actual RAIDS, zoned instances that require a dedicated team effort. World bosses are easier than LFR. Get out of here dude. Legion has had 29 actual raid bosses so far - will have 40 with Antorus. Again, don't be silly.

[Deleted]

Please read the rest of our post history...

We were talking about raids at the beginning of the expansion.

I am well aware of how many bosses each expansion has had. -.-

Also... invasion points? World bosses? Don't be silly. We're talking about actual raids where some level of coordination is at play. Not "plant NPC with tons of health here in zone."

We're talking about actual RAIDS, zoned instances that require a dedicated team effort. World bosses are easier than LFR. Get out of here dude. Legion has had 29 actual raid bosses so far - will have 40 with Antorus. Again, don't be silly.

Invasion points are listed as raid bosses.

Just as much coordination is needed for them as for VoA and Sartharion tbh

The entire raid of Naxx in wrath is basicly just world boss level.

I'l stay thanks

[Reza2001]

Next expansion should be about old gods , Since we will be done with the Burning Legion (most likely) at the end of Legion xpac
Having Naga as Neutral race will be great , Something like "They've broken free from the Old God's service" But I highly doubt the Night Elf society will ever like having Nagas as their allies

[DeltrusDisc]

Invasion points are listed as raid bosses.

Just as much coordination is needed for them as for VoA and Sartharion tbh

The entire raid of Naxx in wrath is basicly just world boss level.

I'l stay thanks

Not true at all.

Why did guilds wipe in Naxx? Oh, maybe because it's beyond world boss level. You obviously weren't playing then.

And Sartharion? REALLY? How about the fact Sartharion could be made into a horrendously difficult fight, aka Sarth +1, +2, or +3 drakes?

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

Hell, none of these world bosses even come close to Doom Lord Kazzak from TBC in Hellfire Peninsula. I'll count him. All these "raid" world bosses in the Broken Isles and WoD are easily done by LFR groups with no real raid wipe mechanics/strategy required. They all die within a couple minutes. The same cannot be said for Naxx bosses, for Sartharion (especially when his available harder modes to get better loot/a drake mount for crying out loud) and the like. Hell I knew raids that wiped in Vault/Baradin Hold at least, though it wasn't terribly common.

The fact you're calling the entirety of Naxx world boss level tells me you might be pulling my strings, tbh. Naxx was a real raid tier - world bosses are not.

[Deleted]

Not true at all.

Why did guilds wipe in Naxx? Oh, maybe because it's beyond world boss level. You obviously weren't playing then.

And Sartharion? REALLY? How about the fact Sartharion could be made into a horrendously difficult fight, aka Sarth +1, +2, or +3 drakes?

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

Hell, none of these world bosses even come close to Doom Lord Kazzak from TBC in Hellfire Peninsula. I'll count him. All these "raid" world bosses in the Broken Isles and WoD are easily done by LFR groups with no real raid wipe mechanics/strategy required. They all die within a couple minutes. The same cannot be said for Naxx bosses, for Sartharion (especially when his available harder modes to get better loot/a drake mount for crying out loud) and the like. Hell I knew raids that wiped in Vault/Baradin Hold at least, though it wasn't terribly common.

The fact you're calling the entirety of Naxx world boss level tells me you might be pulling my strings, tbh. Naxx was a real raid tier - world bosses are not.

I mean i actually dont even care about you believing me. Clearing naxx in wrath was absolutely no achievement. Maybe classic Strat/scholo could compare but thats about it, even UBRS was harder.

THe fact that you could do sartharion plus drakes doesnt make the standard fight any harder.

THere is no point of dragging a world boss from TBC into this.

Nevermind the fact that no matter how easy it is, its classified as a raid boss if its tuned for a group of more then 5 people.

Lets not make this into a pissing contest. There is no reason to be angry. Legion simply has(will have) more raid bosses then wrath did.

[Divinexve]

Black seas? Why not the white seas? Damn racists

[huth]

Not true at all.

Why did guilds wipe in Naxx? Oh, maybe because it's beyond world boss level. You obviously weren't playing then.

Because people are idiots and have managed to wipe on every boss in the game.

[DeltrusDisc]

Because people are idiots and have managed to wipe on every boss in the game.

There are numerous bosses on the Broken Isles that I have not died to.

Please reread the posts that led to the one you quoted and broke down to a small part of it and tell me you don't get what I'm trying to say.

I don't give a damn, @Nupomaniac, if Legion ends up with more bosses than Wrath! That was not the original discussion.

I was explaining how many actual raids, as in, instanced zones tuned for 10-40 people, were available within the first 2-3 weeks of each expansion. They were arguing that Legion had 2 or even 3, which it did not! Sure, they all make up essentially the same tier, if you can call it that, but they came out many weeks if not months apart from each other! You cannot say they were available at launch. ONE raid was available. That's it.

Wrath of the Lich King had 3 raids, albeit two were small. The Burning Crusade had 3 raids, 6 if you don't count that tier 5 was basically bolted firmly behind a mile-long quest-chain and thus unable to be accessed for some time, and Battle for Mount Hyjal was tier 6... need I say more? Cataclysm, an expansion many people loath, launched with 3 raids available. I did not play launch of Mists of Pandaria, but this fine source, a TIMELINE of WoW's update history, shows Mogu Vaults, Terrace of Endless Springs, and Heart of Fear all available at launch. Warlords of... Draenor. An expansion that will go down in the history books for World of Warcraft, launched on Nov 13, 2014, with Highmaul being made available December 2. One raid. Blackrock Foundry was not available till February 3.

So, might as well break down Legion, thanks to this lovely timeline... http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeli...d_of_Warcraft)

On August 30, 2016, Legion launches, with Emerald Nightmare becoming available allllllllll the way on September 20, 2016, nearly a month later. 3 weeks. Close call. 3 weeks of no raid content. On October 25th, 2016, we get patch 7.1, with it comes Trial of Valor! Oh, but wait, Trial of Valor did not become available until November 8th, 2016! What a shame, two MORE weeks of waiting. On January 10th, 2017, 2 MORE months of waiting, patch 7.1.5 hits, and with it comes The Nighthold. But of course... once again, there's a wait, thankfully this time it's only a week, but still, yet another wait for more raid content, Nighthold opens for players on January 17th, 2017.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeli...d_of_Warcraft)

So there you have it! Three raids! Oh, but the timeframe... it's WAY off. Do you get why I'm frustrated with the guy I was talking to earlier now? He was saying that all of these raids were available at launch, and I'll give even a month from launch, even though that is far too long, and you still only have had Emerald Nightmare... for a whole week. It took Blizzard nearly FIVE yes FIVE months to release the three "launch" raids, as this guy is suggesting them to be.

Legion launched with one raid. Argue with me and you need to come up with a source that doesn't exist because I literally just wrote down all the dates with sources.

/rage-out

[Traveler Voltin]

Stop using wowwiki.
How are people still using that site?

[DeltrusDisc]

Stop using wowwiki.
How are people still using that site?

Why? (For the record I don't even know what Noxxic is.)

And I only used it because it was the easiest thing that gave me a timeline.

I also used Battle.net and wowhead.com as sources, if that helps.

Believe me, the first page I went to, trying to get actual dates of not only WHEN raids were added to the game, but when they were actually made available was wowhead... hardly helpful at all. Some of the raids had the desired information in the comments section, but other than that, wowhead was not very useful.

It's not like the wowwiki source is wrong, do you want to try and deny a timeline that is sourced? No? Then why are you here? To complain?

[DeltrusDisc]

Wowwiki is horribly outdated and a ton of misinformation. Always use wowpedia.

Also noxxic is a trolling site that purposely misleads players.

Ah, thanks for the tip about noxxic.

Do we actually think wowwiki has incorrect dates for expansion launches though? I mean, really? They all line up for me...

[FelPlague]

It should all go in the 8.0 Speculation Megathread tbh.

ive said to the mods they should make a subforum, where tyhese threads can be put, people put them on their own, or mods move them there.
"Fake expansion leaks/expansion idea forums"

[huth]

There are numerous bosses on the Broken Isles that I have not died to.

Your point being? Somebody did. Doesn't matter if it was you.

[Letdown]

Indeed, but even if we go by 3 weeks... the statement still stands.

ToV didn't release for a considerable time after EN, and then NH even further down the road.

Whereas Wrath actually had 3 separate locations at launch, Cataclysm had 3 separate locations at launch, and mind you, both of these places had technically a fourth, each:

Vault of Archavon and Baradin Hold, which both started with single bosses, but were added to in each patch.

Truly... Legion doesn't even come close. It's not even like EN was a large raid or anything. =/ Then ToV was a 3 boss raid... Finally NH arrives with 10, admirable... but after how many months?

ToV was 6 weeks after EN opened, NH 9 weeks after ToV for a total of 15 weeks between EN and NH.

It's worth noting that Wrath was the last expansion to not use the difficulty scaling model -- ICC was the first raid to get true multiple difficulties (you could make the argument that Ulduar had "soft" difficulty sliding in that its difficulty was done through in-encounter mechanics vs. using a literal difficulty slider). I'm not saying this justifies it (and personally I like the old model better), but at least PART of the issue is that every raid exists 4 times now (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic).

[DeltrusDisc]

ToV was 6 weeks after EN opened, NH 9 weeks after ToV for a total of 15 weeks between EN and NH.

It's worth noting that Wrath was the last expansion to not use the difficulty scaling model -- ICC was the first raid to get true multiple difficulties (you could make the argument that Ulduar had "soft" difficulty sliding in that its difficulty was done through in-encounter mechanics vs. using a literal difficulty slider). I'm not saying this justifies it (and personally I like the old model better), but at least PART of the issue is that every raid exists 4 times now (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic).

That's true! I absolutely agree.

However, it takes quite a few more resources from Blizzard to completely design a new raid, new bosses, and entirely new mechanics, as opposed to "okay, here's EN, what do we add to these boss fights to make them harder, other than % health and shortened timers?"

So, I think that's where it falls flat. :P

- - - Updated - - -

Your point being? Somebody did. Doesn't matter if it was you.

Point is it's not at all remotely comparable to actual raids tuned for raid groups built with thought and care, they're "raid" bosses only in that they're able to be downed by a bunch of people. However they do scale and I've seen groups of 5 do them... so......... the guy who brought up the Broken Isles world bosses was really grasping at straws.

[yetgdhfgh]

I think Jaylocks 'leak' had more credibility!