Protesters destroy confederate monument in Durham

[Ragedaug]

Yeah this is not going to end well. Both sides will only leave room for extremism if this goes on.

But yeah, I keep saying it: the US will not be a single country at the end of this century.

I tend to agree. The Alt-Right and Regressive Left seem determined to start an armed conflict with each other, and the vast majority of the country that doesn't fall into either camp will likely pay the price.

[Deleted]

Hang on are you arguing it was not a neo nazi rally?

Among the far-right groups engaged in organizing the march were the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer clubs, the neo-Confederate League of the South, the National Policy Institute, and the National Socialist Movement. Other groups involved in the rally were the Ku Klux Klan, the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights, the 3 Percenters, the Traditionalist Workers Party, Identity Evropa, Vanguard America, the American Guard,the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia, the Nationalist Front, and Anti-Communist Action. Prominent far-right figures in attendance included Tim Treadstone, Augustus Invictus, David Duke, Nathan Damigo, Matthew Heimbach, Faith Goldy, Richard B. Spencer, Mike Enoch, League of the South founder Michael Hill, former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson, Daily Stormer writer Johnny Monoxide, self-described "white activist" and organizer Jason Kessler, and radio host Christopher Cantwell.

Dr A is probably one of the most civil people ive seen comment on this forum across topics, seems well informed.

Actually yes, Identity Europe, Faith Goldy and many others are absolutely not neo nazis. They are western nationalist or even simply nationalist to be sure but nazis were about racial purity and exterminating lesser races. There is nothing bad in being a nationalist and simply liking and taking pride in your own country.

[Deleted]

I tend to agree. The Alt-Right and Regressive Left seem determined to start an armed conflict with each other, and the vast majority of the country that doesn't fall into either camp will likely pay the price.

It sucks how the average person suffers because of this.

I am convinced that both the extreme right and left are only a small percentage of the population, but it's made so big by the media that they will soon drage everonye down with them.

[Slant]

The statue in question is a memorial to the southern dead most of which were poor farmer boys who were drafted by force.

People are too simple minded the Civil War was not good vs evil no war is so simple. Most of the men who died fighting for the south were boys with no slaves and nothing to gain from the war at all.

We have such statues in Germany. Except, they don't just remember the dead of our side, but all soldiers that fell during the war. Such as anti-war memorials work. It's a bit hypocritical if the statue only remembers the southern dead, but it's not really a reason to tear it down. The civil war is a big part of US history. As long as the statue doesn't promote southern independence, I think the context is fine.

[Dr Assbandit]

Gonna do a Snape impression here. Why.. don't .. you.. prove it? This is how debates work don't they? If you claim something, sources, facts.. chop chop.. otherwise it's just ad hominem nonsense and you lefties have got so lazy you wont even bother any more. This is why youre losing.

Jesus Christ how old are you? You know someone is either far-right or far-left when they start bringing up juvenile nonsense like "you're losing lolz ". Also if you think I'm a "leftie" just because I disagree with you then you're just as bad as the liberals the right claims label all of them as Nazis.

And since you want proof, do you want me to start with the rally or do you want me to prove how Infowars is fantasy?

[Deleted]

Jesus Christ how old are you? You know someone is either far-right or far-left when they start bringing up juvenile nonsense like "you're losing lolz ". Also if you think I'm a "leftie" just because I disagree with you then you're just as bad as the liberals the right claims label all of them as Nazis.

And since you want proof, do you want me to start with the rally or do you want me to prove how Infowars is fantasy?

Anything, proof, sources.. you said you knew how to debate, lets see it then? So far it's just been strawmen and ad hominems. It's getting late though so you might have to wait till tomorrow for a reply.

PS. Why bring Infowars into it? Another strawman? Nothing else? Mediocre!

[Nathreim]

A traitorous nation protecting a bunch of rich slave owners. Couldn't care less. Their statues do not belong within the Union.

Because everyone owned slaves in the south oh wait the vast majority didn't. Robert E Lee never owned a slave and even was against it. Grant and Sherman both owned slaves right until the 13th amendment passed.

[Halicia]

Reminds me of Isis going around destroying monuments they want to express their revisionist history.

I wonder if any of these people even live in the area, or if this was a paid gig.

[Nathreim]

Confederate leaders and the soldiers fighting for them were traitors to the Union (AKA The United States of America). Granted, once they surrendered and the war was settled they were incorporated back into the country, but I just don't see how anyone can claim to be a proud American, while celebrating monuments to people who tried to lead their states out of the country they claim to be so proud of. I dunno, doesn't make much sense to me.

Its sad how ignorant of history most people are that I have to keep responding to the bullshit traitors arguments.

It was legal to succeed from the union at the time. After the war federal courts ruled the same and President Johnson went further and pardoned all former citizens of the Confederacy. An act of congress even named southern soldiers as US veterans of war.

States at the time were more autonomous they had more in common with nations in the EU than they have with the current day states. Calling them traitors is like calling the UK traitors to the EU.

[Daedius]

It sucks how the average person suffers because of this.

I am convinced that both the extreme right and left are only a small percentage of the population, but it's made so big by the media that they will soon drage everonye down with them.

I honestly wouldn't say the far left wingers are a small percentage, considering how much of a trend it is to be PC/SJW whom praise this kind of hypocritical behaviour... just look at any given social media and the lengths they go to to ruin people's lives they simply don't agree with with thorough bully tactics.

[Kithelle]

It's too damn hilarious.

What can I say...there are crazies on every side.

[Tackhisis]

Boo hoo, traitorous statues are being torn down.

How can they be traitors if they fought for their countries, on their own land?

[PACOX]

How can they be traitors if they fought for their countries, on their own land?

That land belong to the Union, which it rightfully took back. Still doesn't explain why there are statues of them in the US. The Confederatcy was defeated 100 years ago.

They lost. They should get over it.

[Venant]

The sheer irony .

I've been partaking in speech and debate since high school. There is no debating someone who has conjured up a completely different reality. Do you know what would happen if you tried debating and used Infowars as a source on literally any platform in any of the US national debate organizations? You would lose, instantly. Not only that round but the whole tournament. And no, they aren't biased against conservatives, tons of young bright minds partake in them from both sides of the political spectrum.

Maybe you should realize that it's not always others who are the problem, it's you.

Somebody would also be disqualified from a debate if they displayed pictures of Nazi Germany/Concentration camps and insisted that the people at the rally were literally the same people and were totes going to start genociding any minute. Or you would disqualify somebody who displayed a picture of Stalin/Gulags and insisted that the counter-protesters were literally Stalinist commies where were going to start up the gulags any minute now.

[Wyrt]

Should have just waited for the state government to remove it like a bunch of other cities and states decided after this weekend to remove theirs.

[Deleted]

I'd honestly wouldn't say the far left wingers are a small percentage, considering how much of a trend it is to be PC/SJW whom praise this kind of hypocritical behaviour... just look at any given social media and the lengths they go to to ruin people's lives they simply don't agree with with thorough bully tactics.

I think small groups of people tend to make a lot of noise or they wouldn't even be noticed.

It's the constant attention that they get from the media that makes them seem so widespread.

[Dr Assbandit]

Anything, proof, sources.. you said you knew how to debate, lets see it then? So far it's just been strawmen and ad hominems. It's getting late though so you might have to wait till tomorrow for a reply.

PS. Why bring Infowars into it? Another strawman? Nothing else? Mediocre!

I'm bringing Infowars into it because it has a significant impact on your perception and how you view things. It's also a mental roadblock because depending on how much you believe that as a source whatever sources I provide might not be good enough. It would be the same as if I picked up a fairytale book and firmly believed it as fact but to everyone else I might as well be insane because my perception isn't rooted in reality, hence my logic and critical thinking can be assumed to be compromised.

If I'm going to try and convince you I'm banking on the possibility that you're either open-minded and reasonable or that you don't actually take a source such as Infowars as fact. So no it's not a strawman, it's tied directly to how receptive you are to facts and whether you're just going to shrug them off.

But yes it's late so I'll message you tomorrow. G'night.

[Dr Assbandit]

Somebody would also be disqualified from a debate if they displayed pictures of Nazi Germany/Concentration camps and insisted that the people at the rally were literally the same people and were totes going to start genociding any minute. Or you would disqualify somebody who displayed a picture of Stalin/Gulags and insisted that the counter-protesters were literally Stalinist commies where were going to start up the gulags any minute now.

You can't use pictures in parliamentary style debates unless it's informative speaking or one of the many other events but they fall under the speech category. I understand what you're saying though that context matters.

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Thought the same. I mean, message has been already sent with destroying the monument, kicking inanimate metal objects is just like "why do you enjoy foot pain?"

Or flipping it off, I'm sure that will show the statue .

[Travis B]

Robert E Lee never owned a slave and even was against it.

I see this argument made constantly and it's extremely weak. The fact that he knew slavery was wrong and still fought to preserve it makes him just as big a piece of shit as the ones who did own slaves.

[Nathreim]

That land belong to the Union, which it rightfully took back. Still doesn't explain why there are statues of them in the US. The Confederatcy was defeated 100 years ago.

The land belong to the States it was a very different time and the Federal Government had very little power when compared to today. The courts ruled secession was legal at the time in retrospect. A law was passed after the war to prevent secession is now illegal.

The statues exist because all civil war soldiers were named US veterans by an act of congress many honor the fallen like the one that was destroyed today. The Daughters of the Confederacy raised most of them to remember the war as they lost husbands and children and spent much of the war burying men and treating the wounded.

The Civil war was 152 years ago.