Ulduar is the most overrated raid of all time.

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[Katchii]

The reason is explicitly stated in The Chronicle Volume 2.

After Medivh opened the Dark Portal, he hosted a Party at Karazhan (Moroes suggested to host parties in Karazhan and Medivh allowed it).

Aegwynn sensed the opening of the Dark Portal, realised it was Medivh, confronted him during the party, Sargeras then made Medivh using the life essence of any partygoer to defeat Aegwynn.

Maybe I misunderstood your original post, but if you knew this why were you asking why there were a bunch of ghosts and stuff in Kara?

Nevermind...I reread your post. I misunderstood.

I didn't mean to say that Karazhan was a lore heavy exposition type raid I meant that Karazhan was heavily steeped in lore and that it was cool to finally see it and experience it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't know... I'm not one for the whole allowing my memories to delve into the fog of nostalgia, but Ulduar was pretty damned special in terms of setting, themes, the final boss...

Have there been encounters beating it by miles in terms of mechanics and storytelling since? Sure, but overall I'd agree that Ulduar has a huge legacy.
My personal favourite among raids, would be a tie between SoO and ToT. Themes coupled with mechanics makes those raids strong. 14 months of SoO with Survival as it played then didn't feel half as long as a few months playing MM in Emerald Nightmare...

[Lulbalance]

Why is it hilarious someone likes something more than something else?

I agree with the poster on Throne of Thunder and Siege of Orgrimmar.

Because they were both horrible raids, subjectivity only goes so far. For example: please share with us exactly why you think throne is better than Uld from a progression standpoint. Failing that... lore perspective? Failing that.. originality and art?

I'm going to guess you won't, which means that opinion devolves into you being a different space during your wow experience and feeling the need to claim that something which is notably inferior is superior despite it being obviously untrue by any other metric. I find that 'hilarious'.

[arr0gance]

I don't get why everyone has such a raging hard on for ulduar. I'm not saying it was a bad raid but it was far from the best. BWL, SoO, Naxx 1.0, ICC, BWD, BT, and a few others were far better.

I disagree.

[Eleccybubb]

Because they were both horrible raids, subjectivity only goes so far. For example: please share with us exactly why you think throne is better than Uld from a progression standpoint.

Subjectivity doesn't go so far at all.

Saying a raid is the worst or best is subjective.

For me Throne had Ji Kun, Ra-Den, Lei Shen, Iron Qon and Animus for progression. Absolutely loved those fights on Heroic. Especially Lei Shen.

Siege had Shamans, Malkorok, Blackfuse, Paragons, Garrosh, Norushen, Galakras and Sha of Pride for me.

You saying Ulduar is the best is your subjective opinion. I think it was a good raid too. But as I said my top 3 would be Throne of Thunder, Siege of Orgrimmar and Blackrock Foundry.

[Lulbalance]

Subjectivity doesn't go so far at all.

Saying a raid is the worst or best is subjective.

For me Throne had Ji Kun, Ra-Den, Lei Shen, Iron Qon and Animus for progression. Absolutely loved those fights on Heroic. Especially Lei Shen.

Siege had Shamans, Malkorok, Blackfuse, Paragons, Garrosh, Norushen, Galakras and Sha of Pride for me.

You saying Ulduar is the best is your subjective opinion. I think it was a good raid too. But as I said my top 3 would be Throne of Thunder, Siege of Orgrimmar and Blackrock Foundry.

I'm glad you enjoyed your MoP raiding experience!

[Eleccybubb]

I'm glad you enjoyed your MoP raiding experience, was a great time to pick the game up!

I started in Wrath. Try harder.

Not saying Ulduar is a bad raid at all. Just wouldn't make my top 3 and that best is subjective.

[Lulbalance]

I started in Wrath. Try harder.

Not saying Ulduar is a bad raid at all. Just wouldn't make my top 3 and that best is subjective.

I actually pulled that because I guessed it was Cata, still a good time to pick up wow.

[cuafpr]

the only part i liked about ulduar was the way of triggering hard modes, i used to try think of ways bosses in other raids could have been done vs the flip the switch method. ICC is my fav raid even if the LK was let down in terms of lore that felt like it was made to be hard for the sake of being hard vs what it should/could have been.

[Eleccybubb]

I actually pulled that because I guessed it was Cata, still a good time to pick up wow.

And I still maintain those are my top 3 raids as listed above. BRF was freaking awesome but certainly does not redeem WoD at all. Except Iron Maidens on progress. Way too long a fight.

[Lulbalance]

And I still maintain those are my top 3 raids as listed above. BRF was freaking awesome but certainly does not redeem WoD at all. Except Iron Maidens on progress. Way too long a fight.

You can maintain that, but proved my point by not really backing it up at all. I would have let that go a few posts back if not for the fact that it applies to almost everyone who says 'Throne of Thunder was a better raid than Uld'...lol.

[Eleccybubb]

You can maintain that, but proved my point by not really backing it up at all. I would have let that go a few posts back if not for the fact that it applies to almost everyone who says 'Throne of Thunder was a better raid than Uld'...lol.

But it's still subjective. Saying something is the best is subjective unless it's a fact.

Eg. Fastest Road Car is the Venom Hennesey GT. Fact because it is at 270 MPH. Well actually it's Veyron Super Sport if we are talking about Road Legal at 268 MPH.

Best Road car in the world is a Dodge Challenger. Subjective and my opinion.

Same with raids in WoW. Best is subjective. Ulduar is one of the well received ones there is no denying that though.

[SherriMayim]

I don't think everyone praises Ulduar for its estethics or anything like that. The only things Ulduar had that was beyond anything they've ever done since were the hard modes. This was the pinnacle of progression design where if you did the bosses in a certain way you got a bit extra and certainly that's where the prestige for the world first guilds was.
It's praised because it's the correct way to implement more difficult content, sadly it was immediately followed by lazy difficulty sliders and we've been stuck with them ever since.

I recall an interview where they mentioned that the reason they went from Ulduar's method of Hard Modes to 'Sliders' is due to the fact that it was difficult to find new meaningful ways to 'trigger' the hard mode.

However even though the 'sliders' are still there the ideology behind the Ulduar Hard Modes are certainly present in Mythic Raids today.

A lot of Bosses in Mythic Raids have 'Mythic Only' Mechanics which range wildly from additional dots/debuffs/damage, Tichondrius/Nythendra, or more Adds or a Gimmick Mechanic, Star Auger, or even the addition of a phase, Archimonde HFC, a 'Second Boss' Add, Grand Imperator/Cho'gal in HighMaul, or even a creative use of restructuring the fight: Gul'Dan starting on 'phase two', then Phase 3, then the addition of Illidan as the culmination of the fight.


While the use of a 'Slider' that turns it from Heroic to Mythic might be lazy or merely solving a problem that was something 'wrong' happening in the attempt to trigger Harde Mode. Aka accidentally pulling one of the Trees on Freyja while doing trash and having to wipe after killing trash to keep from killing the tree. ...Also sometimes the tree freaking DIED due to AOE Cleave, or accidentally killing the heart on XT. I think it was an inevitability due to it being so unique and there would be a definite issue of trying to one-up each raid.

Honestly I think that adds to some of the charm of doing Ulduar when it was current content. It used to be that 'Normal Mode' was 10man and 'Heroic' was 25man. So when we went into Ulduar Heroic mode and saw these new achievements and the loot that went with it, it was REALLY cool. However if that had become a mainstay could you imagine how annoying that would be today?



'Don't let the Owl Die on Mythic Sisters to activate hard mode on Phase 3 and get 930 (mythic) loot!'

"Crap guys, wipe it up, tank accidentally killed the owl"

[-Annomander-]

Remember when you saw the raid's health plummet as XT used tympanic tantrum: "NO NO NO NOOOO!"?

Remember Steelbreaker making your tank explode?

Remember "WINDS OF THE NORTH CONSUME YOU!" and 10k shield slam crits on Hodir?

Remember when your corridor team accidentally triggered the hard mode on Thorim?

Remember when you fought your way through 3 phases of Mimiron's tech with 1 shot mechanics, only to be confronted with V07TR0N?

Remember running like fuck into the collapsing star void zone before Big Bang killed you on Algalon?

Remember... "MADNESS WILL CONSUME YOU!" ?

Blizzard set an amazingly high bar with Ulduar, and in my subjective opinion, have never bettered it and probably never will.

[Deleted]

Ulduar is one of the best raids ingame. Everything is right in Ulduar.

Except for the retarded looks of Paladin T8 set.

The hard mode triggers in Ulduar were quite creative. Too bad they abandoned that concept and went for the generic "hard mode" setting.

[Softbottom]

Ulduar was a solid raid. I still like ToT more personally. Both are in my top 5 that's for sure.

[harruin]

I enjoyed ulduar, but a lot of people forget about the near daily hotfixes to it for the first week to get some of the bosses to be playable. That and that horrible 10 man tuning, making it nearly impossible to do heroic unless you had 25 man gear. It was a breath of fresh air compared to Naxx which was easily cleared by pugs on most servers within the first 2 weeks of the expansion.

[cparle87]

I don't know, they've managed to be creative with boss designs for 10 years since then. Creativity is something the raid design team have always done really well so I don't really see why this would've been any different.

But we're not talking about creative boss designs as a whole, simply creative ways to trigger their hard modes. Things like killing the bosses in a certain order, for instance, can only be done in council fights. How many fights can there be objects to destroy before we get to the boss, the boss has some special part to target, etc etc can they think up?

[A dot Ham]

Our tank was poached and guild fell apart at the start of Ulduar. I took a break during that time and never played Ulduar when it was relevant.

#yesragrets

Also better than Naxx? Surely you jest. Although do I like it for the theme or because was a legit fun raid... lemme think about it.