1. #1

    Dreadsteed nerf was for nothing

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0II_uz5UwAc

    Not only is there still another 'infinite' combo with Defile, but the loop that would have been caused by defile most likely have had a cap to turn itself off anyway (check the comments about somebody trying to infinite loop Defile with this OTK combo, minus the use of Knife Juggler).

    Can we un-nerf Dreadsteed now?

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Mrbleedinggums's Avatar
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    Dreadsteed would mean that you would need 4 less cards (summoning portal, geist that summons 2/2s, minion that immunes a creature, minion that gives +1 spellpower)

    Having a combo OTK is perfectly fine (see: mages with their OTK combo) when it requires a large number of cards to use it. That gives the opponent time while they're having to gather all the cards and they can negate it by multiple means. (dirty rat, +2 cost to spells, +1 cost to minions, etc)
    "Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  3. #3
    I think Bleeding actually put it well.

    I mean, the Paladin DK also has a OTK with Beardo, but the fact it is requires far more set up. Same with this one, except if you had Dreadstead, it would simplify that combo far too much. Also missed out though, it seems in the video they already had a tick of Emperor also to factor in that.

  4. #4
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    its a 7card combo, good luck pulling that off easily every game
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  5. #5
    Also, Dreadsteed + Defile is a 2 card, 6 mana deal 14 (in increments of 1 so all deathrattles die), then end with a 1/1. It's too crazy

  6. #6
    I would've prefered that they hardcoded dreadsteeds to resummon after defile had been completed. Ie, let all the defile 'pulses' go off, resummon afterwards. Since now a niche card is just turned utterly useless.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Greandal View Post
    I would've prefered that they hardcoded dreadsteeds to resummon after defile had been completed. Ie, let all the defile 'pulses' go off, resummon afterwards. Since now a niche card is just turned utterly useless.
    Yeah, agree with you here. I think that would have been a better solution than sacrificing Dreadsteed to the abyss.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Greandal View Post
    I would've prefered that they hardcoded dreadsteeds to resummon after defile had been completed. Ie, let all the defile 'pulses' go off, resummon afterwards. Since now a niche card is just turned utterly useless.
    I imagine they'd have to rework ALL deathrattles then, and could screw over other combinations, making some cards not viable anymore for combos like that or possibly future combos.

    I can't think of any off the top of my head though admittedly.

  9. #9
    Dreadsteeds are completely useless now , Safe Disenchant

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zil-Z View Post
    Also, Dreadsteed + Defile is a 2 card, 6 mana deal 14 (in increments of 1 so all deathrattles die), then end with a 1/1. It's too crazy
    I hardly consider that a valid reason to keep the card nerfed. Pyro + Equality is a 4 mana board clear that doesn't trigger cards such as your opponent's Acolyte of Pain more than once (unlike multiple ticks that Defile would cause), and yet we don't nerf Pyro or Equality, despite it being cheaper and more powerful than Dreadsteed + Defile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza2001 View Post
    Dreadsteeds are completely useless now , Safe Disenchant
    I'd disagree. 'True' Dreadsteed players actually played the decks based around the card before Spiritsplinger was a thing. Rivendare still works almost exactly the same as before with Dreadsteed. The cards that did take a hit with Dreadsteed were Anima Golem, and to a smaller degree Noggenfogger.
    Last edited by Pantalaimon; 2017-08-14 at 05:06 AM.

  11. #11
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantalaimon View Post
    I hardly consider that a valid reason to keep the card nerfed. Pyro + Equality is a 4 mana board clear that doesn't trigger cards such as your opponent's Acolyte of Pain more than once (unlike multiple ticks that Defile would cause), and yet we don't nerf Pyro or Equality, despite it being cheaper and more powerful than Dreadsteed + Defile.

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    I'd disagree. 'True' Dreadsteed players actually played the decks based around the card before Spiritsplinger was a thing. Rivendare still works almost exactly the same as before with Dreadsteed. The cards that did take a hit with Dreadsteed were Anima Golem, and to a smaller degree Noggenfogger.
    The issue is that pre-nerf Dreadsteed and Defile create an infinite loop. That is, it would never, ever have a trigger to stop casting Defile.
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  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Tenris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    The issue is that pre-nerf Dreadsteed and Defile create an infinite loop. That is, it would never, ever have a trigger to stop casting Defile.
    Defile can only proc 14 times maximum to stop the infinite loop for minions like that, look at the grim patron knife juggler combo.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenris View Post
    Defile can only proc 14 times maximum to stop the infinite loop for minions like that, look at the grim patron knife juggler combo.
    14? Seems like it is higher than that.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    The issue is that pre-nerf Dreadsteed and Defile create an infinite loop. That is, it would never, ever have a trigger to stop casting Defile.
    I don't think it would. As I mentioned earlier, and the reason for linking the OTK video at the start of the thread, is that the Defile cast loop has a cap to it. This is proven when you test the above OTK (minus the OTK part created via Knife Juggler).

    So basically the BS about nerfing Dreadsteed due to some infinite cast loop was a load of crap.

  15. #15
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantalaimon View Post
    I don't think it would. As I mentioned earlier, and the reason for linking the OTK video at the start of the thread, is that the Defile cast loop has a cap to it. This is proven when you test the above OTK (minus the OTK part created via Knife Juggler).

    So basically the BS about nerfing Dreadsteed due to some infinite cast loop was a load of crap.
    Infinite loops stop a short time after a hero dies, as evidenced by previous Maiden+SP loops. Damage would keep ticking on the negatives for a bit, then the game would end.

    Same situation with the KJ video

    With old Dreadsteed, there's not just the hero damage loop potential from an Immune KJ. If you were to play JUST DSteed and Defile, it would just kill itself over and over and over with nothing to say "stop".
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Infinite loops stop a short time after a hero dies, as evidenced by previous Maiden+SP loops. Damage would keep ticking on the negatives for a bit, then the game would end.

    Same situation with the KJ video

    With old Dreadsteed, there's not just the hero damage loop potential from an Immune KJ. If you were to play JUST DSteed and Defile, it would just kill itself over and over and over with nothing to say "stop".
    In the comments of the video somebody has tested out the KJ combo, without infinitely spawned damage hitting face, and they got the 'infinite loop' to hit a cap and stop. Personally I haven't tried it out myself, but apparently others under the comments of the same video also confirmed that the loop in the OTK video does indeed have a cap (again assuming that fatal damage isn't occurring, which as you mentioned stops infinite loops anyway). So it does seem that infinite loops are hard coded to indeed have an ending point, no fatal damage needed to end the game. I see no reason why Dreadsteed would have worked any differently.

    You also have to keep in mind that the loop would hit the rope timer, which in and of itself could be something to tell the loop to stop if the above safeguard didn't already occur.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Infinite loops stop a short time after a hero dies, as evidenced by previous Maiden+SP loops. Damage would keep ticking on the negatives for a bit, then the game would end.

    Same situation with the KJ video

    With old Dreadsteed, there's not just the hero damage loop potential from an Immune KJ. If you were to play JUST DSteed and Defile, it would just kill itself over and over and over with nothing to say "stop".
    Toast did a video on defile using Grims, and it stopped after 14 times, even though no hero died

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    This combo requires a lot of cards, and a few ticks on Emperor, if Dreadsteed wasn't changed, you can pull it off with way less cards and no emperor ticks, making it easier to do.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Twoddle's Avatar
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    Already DE'd mine while still 400 dust. It's useless now.

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