American neo-nazi got punched by german in Dresden

[Kaleredar]

Of course it's gonna cut it. It's a valid reason to demonstrate it no matter what YOU think.

Yeah the roman salute used to be used by the romans and others.


Then it was used by the nazis. So just like the name Hitler and the toothbrush mustache, it's not indelibly tainted by the Nazis and has come to represent nazism in the western world. Especially in... oh, you know, Germany.

Blame the Nazis if you want, but them's the brakes. No need to be dense about it.

[Mormolyce]

You mean the Roman Salute that was appropriated? Or are you going to call the Romans Nazis also?

Oath of the Horatii, 1784. Illustrating a scene from Livy's Ab Urbe Condita - I'm not sure exactly when the events in question were supposed to occur but it's pre-Imperial and I think even pre-Republican. So the painting was made over 2,000 years after the events it's depicting.

It's probably about as historically accurate as this:



I'll save you some time: the Roman Salute is a late 18th Century artistic fad with likely no historical basis.

But it did popularise it in fascist Italy, which adopted it and tada, we have the fascist salute.

[Slant]

You mean the Roman Salute that was appropriated? Or are you going to call the Romans Nazis also?

Yeah, ok... I'll come to London and greet people that way. Let's see how long I last once they find out I'm German. I'll refer them to you and told them it's expected by the British that a German uses the Roman Salute that hasn't been done by Romans for centuries, except in football stadiums. And only if they're fascist supporters/players.

[Mormolyce]

Yeah the roman salute used to be used by the romans and others.

No, it wasn't. You're repeating a myth.

[Slant]

No, it wasn't. You're repeating a myth.

Dang it, you're right, too. I've just read up on it, so it seems there is no actual piece of art or descriptive text supporting that the Romans ever did this salute. Someone just crashed and burned with his argument badly... you get the fire extinguisher while I call the firefighters? Elim Garak must be ablaze by now...

[Freighter]

Dang it, you're right, too. I've just read up on it, so it seems there is no actual piece of art or descriptive text supporting that the Romans ever did this salute. Someone just crashed and burned with his argument badly... you get the fire extinguisher while I call the firefighters? Elim Garak must be ablaze by now...

I don't know why anyone has him not ignored, I ignored him a long time ago.

[Kaleredar]

No, it wasn't. You're repeating a myth.

Alrighty but my point is that, regardless of who used it, the nazis coopted it and tainted it.

[Surfd]

Of course it's gonna cut it. It's a valid reason to demonstrate it no matter what YOU think.

But here's another one: Drunk joke.
And another one: "TAXI?!"
And another one: "He was THIS tall"
And another one: "Somewhere in that area on one of the buildings"
And another one: "Why you no high five?"
And another one: "nazi's did a salute like this"
And another one: "so did the americans! like this."

Holy shit. I haven't had a good laugh like that is ages. Lets see.
1: Drunk joke does not somehow magically change it into something other than a Nazi salute.
2: Hailing a taxi is not a Nazi salute. Fucking context. Completely lost on you, I know, but one has to at least try.
3: Still not a gesture that could easily be mistaken for a Nazi salute, unless you have a very awkward way of measuring someones' height.
4: Fucking pointing at something? How goddamned desperate can you be.
5: Yeah, no, not unless you tend to high five people with a straight wrist.
6: Sweet, you even managed to completely miss the second sentence of the fucking quote you quoted. Bravo.
7: So close. Soooooo close, yet so far away. Perhaps before you post a picture out of context, you should actually understand it's Origins. That salute pre-dates the Nazis, and was specifically discontinued from use because the Nazi salute was too similar and the American government didn't want any confusion regarding the two. Unless you time traveled here from pre 1942 America, the year when when the Americans actually discontinued the use of the Bellamy Salute, you would literally have no reason to wander around randomly performing that gesture (Especially considering that it actually only had one specific use, that being to salute the flag during the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance). So in summary, refer to item 6.

So lets see, 0 for 7. Awesome job there friend. Absolutely splendid.

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Dang it, you're right, too. I've just read up on it, so it seems there is no actual piece of art or descriptive text supporting that the Romans ever did this salute. Someone just crashed and burned with his argument badly... you get the fire extinguisher while I call the firefighters? Elim Garak must be ablaze by now...

actually, the salute was created by an american, ironically enough, specifically to be used when Reciting the Pledge of allegiance. Where Bellamy himself got the idea for the salute is anyone's guess however.
They then abandoned it sometime in 1942 in favor of the "Hand over Heart" gesture specifically because they did not want to be accidentally associated with the European Fascists, who had started using a remarkably similar salute to salute their glorious leaders.

[Slant]

I don't know why anyone has him not ignored, I ignored him a long time ago.

Because nazism mustn't be ignored, it must be opposed.

[Dr Assbandit]

I think the alcohol didn't had that much effect if you would think it's a good idea to do a salute like that in germany. He's probably just stupid even if not drunk.

Oh yeah that's a given. I've been blackout drunk a few times before at friends parties and to date I've never done anything embarrassing or idiotic, even while not remembering the evening ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Casthiel]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ute-in-germany



How ironic

Why do so many people from all around the world don't get that if you visit a country you have to play by its rules?

Because that's not true. In general, the western countries have to suck it up when it comes to other countries 'rules' (specially religion), but the other way around does not happen.

[Dr Assbandit]

Yeah, ok... I'll come to London and greet people that way. Let's see how long I last once they find out I'm German. I'll refer them to you and told them it's expected by the British that a German uses the Roman Salute that hasn't been done by Romans for centuries, except in football stadiums. And only if they're fascist supporters/players.

Oh I wasn't paying attention to the painting earlier as I would have mentioned that they aren't doing the salute in that picture either. If I recall they're just reaching for the swords. I remember that painting coming up in arts history back in college.

[Slant]

Oh I wasn't paying attention to the painting earlier as I would have mentioned that they aren't doing the salute in that picture either. If I recall they're just reaching for the swords. I remember that painting coming up in arts history back in college.

Nah, that's not reaching for the swords. But as we have learned in this thread, it doesn't even matter, since that salute (or the oath swearing in the picture) is historically inaccurate. So whatever is in the painting is really not relevant for us and I'd rather not do a salute that is 100% associated with fascism. I mean, why even? It's not a natural hand movement at all. I'd rather just wave at people.

[Ravenblade]

The most ironic part is that it happened in Dresden, a city in the part of Germany with the highest proportion of Neo-Nazis of the entire country.

Still not surprised though. Act like a moron, get punched. And now the police are going to press charges too. Pay up, buddy.

Hence why I said he should have gone to the main city and then would have got help from the Saxonian police, courses in raising arms and proper nationalist behaviour and such. In Neustadt things are a little bit different still but it's also getting slowly overrun by rightwing extremist violence since they can now crawl out of the woodwork and be more open against "leftist scum". Overall it is indeed pretty ironic. He wouldn't have got away that easy in say Leipzig-Connewitz.

[slitheroutfromtherocks]

Ok, list one. And no, "I'm just demonstrating what a nazi salute is" isn't going to cut it.

Being a goofball? Thinking you're funny? I am sure in your small lizard brain you gravitated towards this thread (I'm sure it was like a red alarm going off in your head RACISM DETECTED RACISM DETECTED NO EVIDENCE BUT RACISM DETECTED TIME TO VIRTUE SIGNAL) and ignored the previous one of two Chinese people giving the Nazi salute in Germany last week. Why did they do it? They aren't even white and are Chinese they have no connection to World War 2 like Europeans have and suffered greatly at the hands of the Japanese. I remember taking German Language classes and some black kid drawing a swastika on his note book in school sometime there isn't a reason other than being an idiot.

[Slant]

Being a goofball? Thinking you're funny? I am sure in your small lizard brain you gravitated towards this thread (I'm sure it was like a red alarm going off in your head RACISM DETECTED RACISM DETECTED NO EVIDENCE BUT RACISM DETECTED TIME TO VIRTUE SIGNAL) and ignored the previous one of two Chinese people giving the Nazi salute in Germany last week. Why did they do it? They aren't even white and are Chinese they have no connection to World War 2 like Europeans have and suffered greatly at the hands of the Japanese. I remember taking German Language classes and some black kid drawing a swastika on his note book in school sometime there isn't a reason other than being an idiot.

That's fine. Sometimes people are idiots. And sometimes they learn a quick and violent lesson about them being idiots. The trick is to admit that you've been an idiot and not do it again. Like this story... schoolmates went to a high school exchange in the US. And the tutor warned them that upon hearing they were from Germany, inevitably some idiot would stand up, yell Heil Hitler and do the salute. She told them this not to disrespect her own students. She told them this so they knew what was going on (ignorance) and wouldn't flip out like the last student a year before, who actually jumped two tables to get at the dude's throat and redecorated his face. Not knowing shit doesn't protect you from consequences sometimes...

The Chinese and this American learned it the hard way. And it is worth it. Now a few more people on this forum know that Germans do indeed not have any sense of humour whatsoever. Sometimes a cliche is so insultingly convenient that you may as well adopt it and piss on what people think about you...

[Ravenblade]

That's fine. Sometimes people are idiots. And sometimes they learn a quick and violent lesson about them being idiots. The trick is to admit that you've been an idiot and not do it again. Like this story... schoolmates went to a high school exchange in the US. And the tutor warned them that upon hearing they were from Germany, inevitably some idiot would stand up, yell Heil Hitler and do the salute. She told them this not to disrespect her own students. She told them this so they knew what was going on (ignorance) and wouldn't flip out like the last student a year before, who actually jumped two tables to get at the dude's throat and redecorated his face. Not knowing shit doesn't protect you from consequences sometimes...

The Chinese and this American learned it the hard way. And it is worth it. Now a few more people on this forum know that Germans do indeed not have any sense of humour whatsoever. Sometimes a cliche is so insultingly convenient that you may as well adopt it and piss on what people think about you...

People erroneously believe that this is a classic "Roman salute" but what they really should start believing in is Roman eloquence. Ignorantia legis non excusat.

[Slant]

People erroneously believe that this is a classic "Roman salute" but what they really should start believing in is Roman eloquence. Ignorantia legis non excusat.

They're learning that here. I'm kinda proud of us not letting them get off with a light slap on the wrist on these things. They need to grow up and learn that Europe deserves some respect, it's not a tourist continent like some giant open air museum where you can play tourist and get away with shit like this.

[Noradin]

Funny you'd mention playing by the rules, as you aren't... but lets skip that for now... Why the baiting title? no where in the article is the guy identified as a 'neo-nazi'... Why did you? Why the slander of the dumb drunk guy. I know, because 'dumb drunk American does something stupid in a foreign country' isn't as sensational as calling him a neo-nazi. Right?

Wouldn't be calling him just "some US tourist" be considered nation bashing?

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My second question was to the OP who said that beating a person was OK.

He didn't write that, it's just something you made up in your mind, maybe because you were slobby and prejudiced due to the title.

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You mean the Roman Salute that was appropriated? Or are you going to call the Romans Nazis also?

Oh so you found the painting where this salute was invented?
You do know that it is fictional, don't you?

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Though America has this thing call Freedom of Speech. Which unfortunately stops such thing.

If there are no consequences then it isn't speech, it is just noise.

[Slant]

If there are no consequences then it isn't speech, it is just noise.

Is that a legal definition? :P