Protesters destroy confederate monument in Durham

[Orbitus]

Wait till they start editing history books because they don't like how it makes them feel.

Southern states are already doing that by "white-washing" it so to speak. Making the North the badguys in the civil war and the indian genocide a good thing.

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I think you make a very, very solid Rubicon point. That's the line we can't cross.

It's too late, Republican Southern states have already white-washed them.

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Because books would be next. Anything that is offensive or "hate speech / icons" would get erased.

Too late, Republicans have already done that.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.7e9855e70320

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It's hilarious how many people still think the civil war was about slavery. I guess it's all they teach in northern schools. Wouldn't want people to know that the civil war didn't even abolish slavery and it still continued in the north well after the war... Wouldn't want people to think the war was about state rights and how the federal government was gaining too much power over all the states. Just give me my welfare while I riot over things that I don't understand!!

Considering every single one of the states' secessionist documents said that the main reason was about a states' rights to own slaves, then yes, it was about fucking slavery. You must have been part of the white-washed generation that said it wasn't about slavery.

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This is complete horseshit. The South was perfectly happy trying to ram through laws expressly forbidding refuge states. The Civil War was in no way, shape, or form about "states' rights."

I have 1 gripe with your statement. It was about "states' rights" but the right they wanted, was to own slaves. That is all I wanted.

[Chrysia]

I have 1 gripe with your statement. It was about "states' rights" but the right they wanted, was to own slaves. That is all I wanted.

Well, no, because in general the phrase "states' rights" is used to invoke a policy of severely limited federal government, which the South was demonstrably not interested in.

[Traveler Voltin]

if you do not learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it

[Anevers]

if you do not learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it

And those that did learn from history are doomed to watch the idiots repeat it.

[Ghostpanther]

And thank them for saving them the effort and doing something that should have been done decades ago?

No, for violating the law. Committing a crime is unlawful you know? Or you rather live in a lawless society? You do not like a law or anything else, there is a lawful way to get it changed.

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The sheriff of the town is hoping to bring all the monument destroyers up on felony charges.

Good. Hope they do.

[Mister Cheese]

How do you mean?

[THE Bigzoman]

You mean the same "average confederate soldiers" who proceeded to construct a version of American apartheid after the war, and outright oppose the equal rights of African Americans for over a century afterwards?

The founders of the KKK were former Confederate soldiers.

You mean like northern cities like Chicago, Boston, and St Louis?

Whoops. Wrong states.

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I should note that Germany was smart enough to realize their... 'controversial past' was not something to be proud of or to hang up monuments for.

That is until you see the soviet war memorials in Berlin.

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least no 1 died.

@Crissi

The Leslie Chow "but did you die?" Deflection in its natural habitat.

[Slybak]

I have 1 gripe with your statement. It was about "states' rights" but the right they wanted, was to own slaves. That is all I wanted.

The Confederates wanted an individual sovereign right to chattel slaves, not a state right to the same or even a state right to determine the question of slavery's legality within state jurisdictions. The Confederate Constitution explicitly forbade the passage of any law that resulted in "denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves" (Article I, Section 9, Clause 4).

Further, the Confederate Constitution (in Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1) banned states from prohibiting people from transporting their slaves across or within state lines, and not only explicitly enshrined the right to freely transport slaves within the Confederacy as a privilege and immunity of Confederate citizenship, but it was the only explicit privilege and immunity that the document even listed.

The only rights that state's received under the Confederate Constitution that they didn't have under the Constitution of the United States was (1) the right to impeach Federal judges and officers working in their jurisdictions and (2) the right to bills of credit. They actually lost the right to determine if non-citizens could vote in their local elections.

[Mormolyce]

It's not a terrible word, it's a factual word. It is what happened. The reason for it is to indicate it was an unlawful act.

It's also on about the level of seriousness of say, jaywalking.

Next you'll be defending Nazis because the anti-Nazi protesters littered.

P.S. This thread is about a white identity rally, LITERALLY tribalism.

[Deleted]

They are statues that symbolize a bloody conflict that people died in. Why should that be erased?

Sorry, that's bullshit. I picked this quote as an example for similar drivel.

You don't erect a statue of a Confederate General (or anybody else important to the Confederation) as a reminder of this bloody conflict, same as you don't erect a statue of Hitler or Stalin to remind you of their atrocities.

Context! It's important for everything. And in the context of the American Civil War Confederate war heroes are hardly appropriate figures to remind us.

[Alexeht]

People arrive at 10.20 at the camp, are killed by 11.30 and their corpses are burnt before 12.10

That just happened once.

If you don't see why this stands out in human history, i cannot explain any more.

Damn russian communists did same thing, they just used bullets and buried people under massive pile of calcium instead. Gulags > Concentration camps, since people killed at least were dead instead suffering in extreme conditions...

[Pannonian]

Damn russian communists did same thing, they just used bullets and buried people under massive pile of calcium instead. Gulags > Concentration camps, since people killed at least were dead instead suffering in extreme conditions...

Ok, i try it one last time, please check the sources. The Nazis tried the same in the first place, but it was too slow and inefficient, and what the Nazis did in this regard no one else ever did.

I argued now 3 times why the Holocaust stands out, but all i get is "huh, the commies were as bad" "yeah but i feel different" - the commies were bad, no question, but it doesn't address the points i bring up.

Maybe you believe someone who professionally educates about the Holocaust?

"The Holocaust is “uniquely unique” as some have described it, not just because of the staggering number of victims (indeed there are larger examples of mass murder), but because of the machinery of death created by the Nazis in pursuit of their goal. The sheer efficiency and the usage of modern technology to create assembly lines of death, where the “raw materials” were Jewish men, women and children, and the “finished product” was ash (while the side products were plundered Jewish possessions and bodies – gold teeth, hair etc.), cannot help but cause one to shudder. Perhaps these factors have caused the Holocaust to symbolize the level of ultimate evil to which humanity can descend and to garner the attention it has received."

http://marchoftheliving.org/wp-conte...st-Unique_.pdf

Really, this is not a pissing contest between two sides who has killed more, this is just about why under all this despicable mass murders the Holocaust stands out because of his "quality"

[Logwyn]

Don't care for monuments erected for traitors, but agree that the decision to take it down shouldn't fall to a mob mentality.

I guess we should take down all the moments about the Founding Fathers or American Revolution then too.... Darn traitor colonists!

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It's a little frightening to know that my country is so divided that criminal acts are actively cheered for.


I am not against having such statues removed and put into a museum, or otherwise just being removed from places like public parks. I would expect reasonable adults to start this process the proper way, however, by going to their local government and gathering support. Instead we have children, who throw a tantrum and destroy things they don't like. Sad.

If it starts being ok to just go and tear down things we disagree with... then I'm starting with those red-light cameras!

[Noradin]

What do dead bodies have to do with this? And again, slavery is about owning people as property, not people. Your apologism is sad.

Exactly, it is about owning people, not about owning things.
And again, for apparently you missed it despite me explicitly writing it out for you: I do not condone slavery, there are no excuses for it that I'd accept.

[Somewhatconcerned]

I guess we should take down all the moments about the Founding Fathers or American Revolution then too.... Darn traitor colonists!

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Why, are you British?

It's a shame they were slave owners, but it's another thing to take up arms against your own countrymen.

If you care about that part of our history so much, but that stuff in a museum of losers. We don't need open tributes to traitors.

[Hyral]

Next you'll be defending Nazis because the anti-Nazi protesters littered.

Really not defending them. The Neo-nazis want me either dead or out of the country. Again, this isn't black and white, people aren't with you or against you. The only way we will move on from it is to stop compromising our values for the sake of tribalism and start calling things the way they are without excuses. That is all I'm saying.

[Alexeht]

Really, this is not a pissing contest between two sides who has killed more, this is just about why under all this despicable mass murders the Holocaust stands out because of his "quality"

Well apparently it is since people tend to put commies in good light when in reality they were same/worse than nazis. And communism is really unhealthy ideology, simple as that.

[Pannonian]

Well apparently it is since people tend to put commies in good light when in reality they were same/worse than nazis. And communism is really unhealthy ideology, simple as that.

I never would paint communists in a good light. Why should i? (i suspect we're talking about real-communists) The one thing i wont say is who was worse, because... depends:

Now both are dead, but if I'd ask the brother of my grandmother who was worse, he'll say communists after spending 15 years in a Gulag. My other grandmothers aunt would probably go with Nazis after spending 4 years in a KZ and then being freed by communists. See, both are evil, both are a blight on humanity.

My whole point was about why the concenration camps of the Nazis and their industrialized genocide stand out in the history of genocides. That doesn't diminish the evils of Communists/Gulags or makes them somewhat justifiable, and they killed more people, sure.

What is the worst, is probably (as hopefully explained in my examples) what hits you nearest to home.

[Alexeht]

i suspect we're talking about real-communists

Well now we have neo-communists called antifa. And this is what worries me, people go to extremes like nazism and communism, instead try and work with democracy (which is also shit, but at least we have illusion of choice).

[Deleted]

Well now we have neo-communists called antifa.

Antifa exists since the 1920s, as organizations of left and right wingers that fought fascism in Europe.

The American "Antifa" is just a group of anarchists that is misusing the name.