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  1. #1

    M+ better than raids?

    I dont like dungeons. Lets begin with that.

    At 7.3 (as in when new raid tier isnt open yet), you can get 955ilvl items from M15 according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KClhHmWAd4 . If I understood correctly.

    Since next raid tier isnt open, the hardest content in game mythic raids only give 930ilvl. Only with huge titanforge you can get to same as M+.

    This makes me feel ... dunno... not happy.


    Do I misunderstand something or is this true? If true, what are your opinions regarding it.
    Last edited by Morae; 2017-08-16 at 12:01 PM. Reason: edti: Silly mistake fixed. Somehow was 755 instead of 955.

  2. #2
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Morae View Post
    I dont like dungeons. Lets begin with that.

    At 7.3 (as in when new raid tier isnt open yet), you can get 755ilvl items from M15 according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KClhHmWAd4 . If I understood correctly.

    Since next raid tier isnt open, the hardest content in game mythic raids only give 930ilvl. Only with huge titanforge you can get to same as M+.

    This makes me feel ... dunno... not happy.


    Do I misunderstand something or is this true? If true, what are your opinions regarding it.
    755 ilvl? Meh, 200 ilvl nerf from 7.2.5. Blizz really hates casuls.

    Edit: Check some comments and you will quickly see you are wrong. Also, PTR isn't testing 7.3 content only atm, it tests 7.3.5. So hold your horses lad.
    Last edited by Soluna; 2017-08-16 at 12:00 PM.

  3. #3
    Silly mistake fixed. I obviously meant 955. DUnno where that 755 came.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Don't think so.

    M+ has so far always gotten a bump up in difficulty and rewards when new mythic raid rewards are available. Not before. Getting an ilvl 955 also sounds like the titanforged chest reward that you get in the chest once o week (and is mostly a random item of crap). I'd imagine the new standard non-TF drop from Mythic+15 will be in the 930 range.

    And to be fair. M+15 will be tough, so the rewards fit.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    The difficulty is being ramped up again. Doing a 15 in 7.3 will be like doing mythic raiding today, so the rewards will be on par. Its not hard to get a 955 in a mythic raid today. Hell, its not too out there to get a 955 in a heroic raid either if you get a double titanforge proc. I'll continue to do my 1 or 2 M+ runs a week and get most of my gear from raiding like I do today. I doubt much of the raiding community will suddenly do more M+ than they are already running because of this. They'll likely continue to do their one high dungeon a week to get the cache and that's it.

  6. #6
    The entire playerbase hasn't downed Mythic KJ, some probably won't until later in the next raid or next expansion. With that being said, I'll also state that not everyone has M+so 15 or higher on farm.

    High level M+ dungeons are either the equivalent or higher of certain stages of raiding. Not everyone in this game is as good as they could be or as good as they think they are. The average guild will have players with deficiencies as will M+s.

    I'm a min maxing elitist jerk, not everyone is, my competition is trying to place in the top 100 on warcraftlogs.com on the fights my guild can clear with the gear I'm able to get and we still haven't down heroic KJ yet.

    I've pugged quite a few M+ that are around 15 ish and the people in there are not impressive as they believe. I've seen and played with 930ilvl dps who can't do 800k just as my guild has healers who are 925 and can't out heal our tanks.

    I'm saying that this game has gates that either you can see or not see. With that said your dependant on others to get where you want to go. For me, I just barely was able to best a M+15 or last week, that's having to go outside of my guild, getting in a group that would give me a shot, and proving that I could be someone to tag along with to that level.

    Tldr;
    Raids and M+ are comparatively difficult, it's only right that they give comparative gear.

  7. #7
    I think that it is a bit problematic, that you get gear so much faster in M+ than in Raids (of comparable difficulty). Right now I'm in a not very ambitioned Raid and nearly no-one gets any upgrades but they still struggle with the content. In the past, if you weren't really good (like my raid) you eventually got enough gear from the raid to overgaer the harder bosses and progress further. This is less and less true for todays raiding and makes the experience a tad bit frustrating, imo.

  8. #8
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    Everything can drop 955 ilvl if it titanforges enough. Heck, a world quest reward could titanforge to 955 with enough luck.

    Base ilvl for +15 will stay at 910 at least until the new raid opens.
    Base ilvl for the weekly chest from a +15 will stay at 930 at least until the new raid opens.

    +15 is already only a little less of a joke than a +10 during Nighthold, so I would say that 910 ilvl is justified. With the reduced amount of loot, the chances for higher titanforges are also at least lower. Not impossible but more comparable with those in raids.

  9. #9
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    It's not better, it's an alternative gearing path for those who don't raid mythic, and a supplemental route to gear for those that do. It's exactly what they advertised it as, and it's the best thing to have happened to the game since...well. Ever.

    I don't get the insecurity over itemlevel, I really don't. If you're raiding for itemlevel, you're doing it wrong (hint: it's supposed to be about the team work and the challenge). Raids get exclusivity with tier sets and trinkets, you can't get those anywhere else. Console yourself with that.

    Itemlevel is largely irrelevant in Legion. Where have you been?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Morae View Post
    I dont like dungeons. Lets begin with that.

    At 7.3 (as in when new raid tier isnt open yet), you can get 955ilvl items from M15 according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KClhHmWAd4 . If I understood correctly.

    Since next raid tier isnt open, the hardest content in game mythic raids only give 930ilvl. Only with huge titanforge you can get to same as M+.

    This makes me feel ... dunno... not happy.


    Do I misunderstand something or is this true? If true, what are your opinions regarding it.
    The video explicitly said that he thinks that come 7.3 the cap for weekly chest will be +10 again (like they did in 7.2). That makes the ilev from doing a +10 930. And come 7.3.5 when the new raid is released it will go back to +15 being the cap, and thats where the 955 will come from, again exactly like in 7.2.5.

    Is the video right? I don't know for sure but it makes sense since thats what blizz have done so far this expansion.

    Anything can titanforge up to 955 so it doesn't matter where you get loot from even world quests can so there is no difference.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    Its not hard to get a 955 in a mythic raid today.
    It's actually extremely hard to get a +25 proc.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    It's actually extremely hard to get a +25 proc.
    I think the truth of it is somewhere in the middle. Its not extremely hard by any means. I see 20+ procs in my raid group constantly. I run heroic content, not mythic so I've even been seeing several 30-40+ procs. One of our warriors got a 955 relic and a 945 ring just a couple days apart. We see a good amount of 25-30+ procs too. It may not feel like its happening to you personally, but if you look at the raid as a whole, there are a decent amount of titanforge procs happening on just about every run.

  13. #13
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    930 from chest isn't 930 base, but already titanforged so harder to get 955.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    I think the truth of it is somewhere in the middle. Its not extremely hard by any means. I see 20+ procs in my raid group constantly. I run heroic content, not mythic so I've even been seeing several 30-40+ procs. One of our warriors got a 955 relic and a 945 ring just a couple days apart. We see a good amount of 25-30+ procs too. It may not feel like its happening to you personally, but if you look at the raid as a whole, there are a decent amount of titanforge procs happening on just about every run.
    There's a little mistake in your statistic, you're adding all occurrences of other people into the same pool. You have to look at it from a personal point of view. How many +20s have YOU gotten? How many have YOU gotten that were even higher? On a personal level they're exceedingly rare.

  15. #15
    No you didn't understand correctly. The 955 is available the week mythic burning throne is put. Another 80some days.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Man the replies in this thread scare the hell out of me. The same thing happened in 7.2 guys. How do you spent all day here but not know these things? People are arguing about the chances of getting a titanforge to try to backwards rationalize things that aren't even true.
    Come on guys. Stop over reacting about things you don't understand.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    I think the truth of it is somewhere in the middle. Its not extremely hard by any means. I see 20+ procs in my raid group constantly. I run heroic content, not mythic so I've even been seeing several 30-40+ procs. One of our warriors got a 955 relic and a 945 ring just a couple days apart. We see a good amount of 25-30+ procs too. It may not feel like its happening to you personally, but if you look at the raid as a whole, there are a decent amount of titanforge procs happening on just about every run.
    Please feel free to link your character decked out in +20ilvl rolls.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    I see 20+ procs in my raid group constantly. I run heroic content, not mythic so I've even been seeing several 30-40+ procs.
    Please take me with you. Also, link some of those lucky chars I need something to swoon over.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    There's a little mistake in your statistic, you're adding all occurrences of other people into the same pool. You have to look at it from a personal point of view. How many +20s have YOU gotten? How many have YOU gotten that were even higher? On a personal level they're exceedingly rare.
    Ok, just logged in to check my character. I character swap for our raids, so my stats are a little lower than they would be on a toon that clears every weeks since ToS launched, but going just on my main here:

    I'm currently wearing 2 20+ titanforges, 5 15 titanforges, 3 +10 warforges, and 2 +5 warforges. So, yes, I only have 2 20+ titanforges, but my toon hasn't been full clearing for the last 2 months like many raiders do. I think I personally have a decent amount for the content this toon has done. Also, that's only including my main spec. I've gotten a couple nice pieces on my elemental as well, but don't feel like going through that set at the moment. I think 2 20+ titanforges is nice along with my 5 +15s.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    Ok, just logged in to check my character. I character swap for our raids, so my stats are a little lower than they would be on a toon that clears every weeks since ToS launched, but going just on my main here:

    I'm currently wearing 2 20+ titanforges, 5 15 titanforges, 3 +10 warforges, and 2 +5 warforges. So, yes, I only have 2 20+ titanforges, but my toon hasn't been full clearing for the last 2 months like many raiders do. I think I personally have a decent amount for the content this toon has done. Also, that's only including my main spec. I've gotten a couple nice pieces on my elemental as well, but don't feel like going through that set at the moment. I think 2 20+ titanforges is nice along with my 5 +15s.
    The character I've cleared ToS with since release only has 3 forged items total, the entire rest consists of an assortment of non-forged 930s, non-forged 915s and 2 legendaries.

  20. #20
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    The character I've cleared ToS with since release only has 3 forged items total, the entire rest consists of an assortment of non-forged 930s, non-forged 915s and 2 legendaries.
    I'm wearing a +5 helm, +10 gloves, +10 and +15 relic myself.

    And I'm one of the luckier ones in my guild (not the luckiest, but still)

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