[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Ilikegreenfire]

So much rubbish. We know how long they were on the lake because it went from night time to day and they discovered thoros died in the morning so that gives you a passage of time.

You're reading WAY too much into it

We know at least one night had passed, then the scene cuts again.

Even if it only was 24-36 hours it was totally feasible given the flight speed of Ravens and Dragons. Especially considering the whole thing was a trap for dany anyway.

[RobertoCarlos]

We know at least one night had passed, then the scene cuts again.

Even if it only was 24-36 hours it was totally feasible given the flight speed of Ravens and Dragons. Especially considering the whole thing was a trap for dany anyway.

I strongly disagree with the notion the NK set a trap for Dany. You're giving the writers way to much credit suggesting hes Bran or like Bran and can See everything. And let Sam kill a white walker to lead to all of this. Its a fan theory that fills in too many blanks

[Ilikegreenfire]

Yes you see Arya travel, but she zips all over the place at a speed that other's do not. Varys blinking back and forth to places at a speed that only Euron could is absurd. Euron's ability to rapidly travel is at least covered in the books. With Varys at best they are trying to force things from spilling over into the next episode. Many times people have commented on how long it takes to travel from one place to another in the show or we see it first hand following people along their route. Then we have other manage to skip that and it breaks the flow of events.

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We have seen plenty of maps and the distance between places has been well established. The time it takes to go from one place to another is also often mentioned. The show over the last 2 seasons has broken from that multiple times. It has nothing to do with not seeing people travel it has to do with them skipping all over in some cases over the course of the same episode. If nothing else due to the established ages of characters we have an idea of how much time has passed over the course of the show and when you match to the two together things don't add up.

Arya doesn't zip? She does one big circle around the riverlands then goes home, it takes her 4 episodes to do it....

Again the time between Varys's scenes is months apart in universe, do you need intro text for the scenes or something? hes at DOrne, the NExt time we see him is in Danys mega fleet with ships with Dorneish sails. He spent months traveling with the Dorenish fleet.

The only people i have seen talk about "teleporting" appear to be casual viewers who seem to need intro text at the start of a new scene to remind them of what is happening.

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That's some argument - which brings us to: why on earth didn't Jon tell Daenerys to roast NK in the first place?

No real time, he was busy killing wights while everyone got on Drogon.

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I strongly disagree with the notion the NK set a trap for Dany. You're giving the writers way to much credit suggesting hes Bran or like Bran and can See everything. And let Sam kill a white walker to lead to all of this. Its a fan theory that fills in too many blanks

He is like bran, he has power over his visions, and stops his ravens. It explained why Sam was spared repeatedly by whitewalkers, and how Meera somehow escaped and army of tireless undead(save for the small group sent to keep up the ruse) while having to pull brans ass through thick snow.

[Elim Garak]

We have seen plenty of maps and the distance between places has been well established.

Bullshit. Guestimates at best. But anywho irrelevant. Gendry runs fast. Ravens fly fast. Dragons fly fast. Westeros is not that big, Dragonstone is not that far from the wall.

[Vestig3]

Im noticing a pattern in peoples behaviour when it comes to watching tv shows that they get more nitpicky the longer the show runs lol, now on GoT but im also noticing it on Walking Dead and The blacklist.

[minteK917]

Im noticing a pattern in peoples behaviour when it comes to watching tv shows that they get more nitpicky the longer the show runs lol, now on GoT but im also noticing it on Walking Dead and The blacklist.

Dude how come nobody took a piss or a shit while they were waiting in the middle of that lake. Two days without pissing, my ass. FAN FICTION.

[Alvito]

Im noticing a pattern in peoples behaviour when it comes to watching tv shows that they get more nitpicky the longer the show runs lol, now on GoT but im also noticing it on Walking Dead and The blacklist.

Such is the case of all things. Some things don't bother you until it becomes a pattern. Just like in people things you enjoy over time can become the things that annoy you. Part of the reason people like GoT was all bets were off with certain things. Skilled and good people died, villains win and patterns were less likely. After a few years and the HBO taking over the writing completely the tone has changed. The show is still good, it is just a little more silly now each episode seems to include at least one popular fan idea circling the internet also.

[minteK917]

I strongly disagree with the notion the NK set a trap for Dany. You're giving the writers way to much credit suggesting hes Bran or like Bran and can See everything. And let Sam kill a white walker to lead to all of this. Its a fan theory that fills in too many blanks

You realize that part of it, like a undead dragon is also gona happen in the books? How many time do people in the show needs to beat it over peoples head. They cant cross the wall. Thats the whole point of the measters in this season, to repeat again, since the creation of the wall, it has never happened. The whites never went away, they just cant cross the wall. The wall is not just ice. So yes the measters were right, the logical thing to do all along was do nothing.

Its exactly why the walker starts gathering again in this Era, there is finally dragons again, they can use that to just destroy the wall. The Nights king sees like bran and even more. Remember when bran saw the NK in the past, the NK was able to see him and touch him...

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Such is the case of all things. Some things don't bother you until it becomes a pattern. Just like in people things you enjoy over time can become the things that annoy you. Part of the reason people like GoT was all bets were off with certain things. Skilled and good people died, villains win and patterns were less likely. After a few years and the HBO taking over the writing completely the tone has changed. The show is still good, it is just a little more silly now each episode seems to include at least one popular fan idea circling the internet also.

Some of these theories come from the books and were long on the net before the show. The show didnt invent that JS was a targaryen. That Clegane was gona be alive. List goes on. It also kills old theories on the way. Like a third targaryen rider for the dragons, there wont be a third one of the dragon was going to die. Its the only way the nights king can cross the wall.

[Tekkommo]

People need to stop winging so much.

You might say you're not winging, but you're typing words and complaining about something, that's winging.

[RobertoCarlos]

Snip

Theres no doubt the NK can catch Bran peeping on him. He can probably sense all kinds of magic. But to suggest he is also the 3 eyed raven is a stretch.

If he has the sight why did he need Bran to fuck up and let him touch him so he could find him in the cave. He could just find everyone instantly soon as they go north of the wall instead of them having to come to him for their silly plot reasons (capture a wight for proof etc)

[minteK917]

Theres no doubt the NK can catch Bran peeping on him. He can probably sense all kinds of magic. But to suggest he is also the 3 eyed raven is a stretch.

If he has the sight why did he need Bran to fuck up and let him touch him so he could find him in the cave. He could just find everyone instantly soon as they go north of the wall instead of them having to come to him for their silly plot reasons (capture a wight for proof etc)

Nothing in the books or show ever tell us that 3 eyed raven can see everything at once or all the time. I dont subscribe that all of it lines up because he knew everything. But yes that the NK entire plan revolves around the facts that dragons had finally returned.

Remember that bran could change something in the past. Nights King power for all we know has some similarity with the 3 eyed raven, thats why the past NK can touch bran and instantly tell him where he is in the present. So the NK might have played a more active role then we know for now. If it was as easy as just walking out of the wall, he would have done it undreds of years before, hell during Roberts rebellion when everyone was busy. Hell years before dany is in westeros so that there is no dragon to melt his armies? Or he and the whites are stuck behind the wall and needs something to break it for them?

Thats actually the kind of things Martin would write, the heroes fucked up and helped the villain without realizing it. Some of these major plot point are gona be in the book if they ever get finished. They might not be played the same way, but a dragon will die, NK needs it to cross the wall. Just like JS and Dany where always gona be Targaryen meeting up and fucking eventually. Its gona be in the books too.

[Thelxi]

I always thought Jon was the prince who was promised, as in promised to the Night King or something, but I just realized that the night king had jon right there in the lake but couldn't care less about him. So it seems there is no special connection there.

[RobertoCarlos]

Nothing in the books or show ever tell us that 3 eyed raven can see everything at once or all the time. I dont subscribe that all of it lines up because he knew everything. But yes that the NK entire plan revolves around the facts that dragons had finally returned.

Remember that bran could change something in the past. Nights King power for all we know has some similarity with the 3 eyed raven, thats why the past NK can touch bran and instantly tell him where he is in the present. So the NK might have played a more active role then we know for now. If it was as easy as just walking out of the wall, he would have done it undreds of years before, hell during Roberts rebellion when everyone was busy. Hell years before dany is in westeros so that there is no dragon to melt his armies? Or he and the whites are stuck behind the wall and needs something to break it for them?

Thats actually the kind of things Martin would write, the heroes fucked up and helped the villain without realizing it. Some of these major plot point are gona be in the book if they ever get finished. They might not be played the same way, but a dragon will die, NK needs it to cross the wall. Just like JS and Dany where always gona be Targaryen meeting up and fucking eventually. Its gona be in the books too.

The night king doesnt plan on Dany getting the dragon eggs and giving birth to the dragons it just happened because GRRM wrote it that way. The dragons being alive gives rise to magic in the world. But Its a bit like the chicken and the egg, which one came first. Except we know the Night King came first so surely the dragons are the counter to them, when theres Ice there must also be fire and vice versa. Having dragons has undoubtedly sped up the night kings progress but I fail to see how that means he managed to plan it all out so Dany flies in her dragons so he can kill just one to bring down the wall

[Tekkommo]

The distance between Eastwatch and Dragonstone is supposed to be roughly about the same distance between Finland and Italy.

It should've taken about 1,5 week for a raven to fly 2000 miles.


The show has been taken a lot of liberties with Telepetyring since season 5 already. It's not really something that super bothers me. Probably would make more sense if they had been stuck on that lake for a whole week instead of only a single night, might've made more sense with people dying from the cold and starvation.

How do you know how fast ravens can fly?

The Children of the Forest taught the First Men how to use ravens for long distance communications thousands of years prior to the events of the show, and they are basically magical creatures.

Pigeons can fly up 58mph, whose to say Ravens can't fly faster in a fantasy show?

[Deleted]

Pigeons can fly up 58mph, whose to say Ravens can't fly faster in a fantasy show?

So those we saw in the show already (who flew at the speed real-life ones would) were just inferior ravens?

[Tekkommo]

So those we saw in the show already (who flew at the speed real-life ones would) were just inferior ravens?

Exactly, the fastest Raven charges a lot for his services, so is only used in emergencies.

Anyway, I agree the pacing is way off this season, but I am still loving it.

[Ilikegreenfire]

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The distance between Eastwatch and Dragonstone is supposed to be roughly about the same distance between Finland and Italy.

It should've taken about 1,5 week for a raven to fly 2000 miles.


The show has been taken a lot of liberties with Telepetyring since season 5 already. It's not really something that super bothers me. Probably would make more sense if they had been stuck on that lake for a whole week instead of only a single night, might've made more sense with people dying from the cold and starvation.

A carrier pigeon can do 1.1k a day(before roosting for the night). Carrier ravens in asoif are stronger flyers than pigeons per the books and could fly all night. They were probably on the rock for 36-48 hours, long enough to start to freeze to death after having slow burning Thoros for warmth.

Most ravens will eat grain, but they prefer flesh. It makes them strong, and I fear they relish the taste of blood. In that they are like men ... and like men, not all ravens are alike. Doves and pigeons can also be trained to carry messages, though the raven is a stronger flyer, larger, bolder, far more clever, better able to defend itself against hawks ... yet ravens are black, and they eat the dead, so some godly men abhor them.[6]

None of this really matters anyway as the night king only sent the wights in again because dany was in range.

[pateuvasiliu]

The distance between Eastwatch and Dragonstone is supposed to be roughly about the same distance between Finland and Italy.

It should've taken about 1,5 week for a raven to fly 2000 miles.


The show has been taking a lot of liberties with Telepetyring since season 5 already. It's not really something that super bothers me. Probably would make more sense if they had been stuck on that lake for a whole week instead of only a single night, might've made more sense with people dying from the cold and starvation.

Maybe the world is smaller on the show dunno

[ItachiZaku]

lieutenant*
=D

The hardest word for me to spell on the regular.

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Holy shit Dany is dumb.

21 minutes in to the episode, but still...

Dan has engaged in combat twice in Westeros with her babies, both times they'd been brought down lol Dragon's, the ultimate glass cannon.

[Deleted]

Might be going waaaayy off the current thread of conversation, but I cannot work something out.

Apologies if this has been asked (I don't really have time to run through 1049 pages!), but how did that undead survive over the wall?

I mean, its clearly moving about in the boat when The Hound throws it in, and I thought they couldn't get over? Or is it just the White Walkers?

Its been a long time since I have read the books again, but is it something to do with a horn or something?