Three British men to be caned for sexual assault of woman in Singapore

[Deleted]

i would go with one year in prison, and 500 lashes every week that they're in prison.

i believe lashings are a good punishment that should be used here in the states.

You've already got Gitmo though.

[Thoughtcrime]

Why not? Life is about doing enough pointless things to pass the time till death anyway.

That's too stupid an argument to dignify.

It does if it provides mental satisfaction to the victims. By definition of that happening, the act of corporal punishment is no longer "pointless". There is a point, it's just one you arbitrarily choose to not agree with.

Then the victims are wrong, and again it's not justice. I will ask the same questions as before elsewhere in the thread.

What rehabilitation is provided? None
What compensation to the victim is provided? None
How has society benefited? It doesn't.
Will this stop future crimes being committed? It won't.

For the purposes of administering law in a civilised country these are some of the important requirements of justice, which is why corporal punishment is outlawed in almost every developed nation on Earth. Thrashing someone with a stick, stretching them on a rack, drowning them, cutting them, mentally torturing people, stoning them, burning them, or raping them does none of the above. It's JUST torture.

How are they mutually exclusive?

Justice and sadism are the same...got it. I'll refer to my first response.

[Deleted]

Why not? Life is about doing enough pointless things to pass the time till death anyway.




It does if it provides mental satisfaction to the victims. By definition of that happening, the act of corporal punishment is no longer "pointless". There is a point, it's just one you arbitrarily choose to not agree with.


How are they mutually exclusive?



Umm yes, there are ways of inflicting harm without it getting physical. Such as imprisonment.

Harm is something that isn't black and white and must be tangible for it to classify as such. Hence, yes, you are splitting hairs.

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Well, at least in Singapore there are no cases of anyone dying from caning. Plus there usually aren't any penalties for people above a certain age committing crimes, so how is any penal system justice at all?

Again, if that makes you feel better, fine by me. But it doesn't make corporal punishment any less bad, the use of corporal punishment is medieval and any country that uses it is a backwards shit hole. It doesn't help, and if you only do it for the fun of it (mental satisfaction) like you suggest in your first bit of this quote then you are a psychopath.

[Orlong]

"At the end of the four-day trial, high court judge Hoo Sheau Peng lambasted their “reprehensible” conduct and sentenced them to jail terms of between five and a half and six and a half years.

They were also sentenced to between five and eight strokes of a 1.2-metre rattan cane, a punishment dating to British colonial rule."

Caning isn't lenient, by the way.

Id like to know how they determine if they get 5 strokes, or 6, or 7, or the full 8. Do they just keep caning them until they either go unconscious or until they reach the maximum of 8

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It feeds more into the "punishment" part of prison than "rehabilitation"

Why cant prison be both? You get harshly punished for a portion of your sentence and then rehabilitated for the rest of it. Youre acting like committing rape or robbery is a disease that people have no control over and rehab will cure them. It wont

[PosPosPos]

That's too stupid an argument to dignify.

Thank you for admitting that to your initial premise.

Then the victims are wrong, and again it's not justice. I will ask the same questions as before elsewhere in the thread.

Because you said so right?

What rehabilitation is provided? None

Imprisonment by itself isn't rehabilitation either, rehab is something goes side-by-side with punitive measures. So does that mean we should abolish imprisonment entirely because it's not rehab?

What compensation to the victim is provided? None

Mental relief is compensation. It's just less tangible than just giving them money or benefits.

How has society benefited? It doesn't.

Low crime and recidivism rates.

Will this stop future crimes being committed? It won't.

Has rehabilitation stopped crimes from being committed completely? It won't either, so it must be bad right?

For the purposes of administering law in a civilised country these are some of the important requirements of justice, which is why corporal punishment is outlawed in almost every developed nation on Earth. Thrashing someone with a stick, stretching them on a rack, drowning them, cutting them, mentally torturing people, stoning them, burning them, or raping them does none of the above. It's JUST torture.

Because you said so.

Justice and sadism are the same...got it. I'll refer to my first response.

They can go hand in hand. Who cares about what the judge is thinking as long as the sentence handed out if within reason? If judge A is sadistic and judge B isn't, and they would decide on the exact same sentencing based on different mental reasoning, does that make a difference? Maybe your feelings might be offended, but the functional difference is non-existent.

Again, if that makes you feel better, fine by me. But it doesn't make corporal punishment any less bad, the use of corporal punishment is medieval and any country that uses it is a backwards shit hole. It doesn't help, and if you only do it for the fun of it (mental satisfaction) like you suggest in your first bit of this quote then you are a psychopath.

Seeing someone receiving their just deserts or retribution after they have harmed you isn't psychopathy. It's a perfectly normal human reaction.

It's really nice to see people sling empty insults like "backwards shit hole", "medieval" and "psychopath" at entities that simply don't hold the same opinion as them.

Can't win arguments based on logic, facts and reason? No problem, sling more insults and hopefully people get distracted enough to address those non-sequiturs instead of the lack of a substantial argument.

[Orlong]

Easy to say that when you never been caned.

Oh please. It hurts really bad but its not life threatening at all. Hell lots of Pro Wrestlers get caned several nights a week for like $50 a night in pay (with welts, split skin sometimes requiring stitches/staples)

[Deleted]

Thank you for admitting that to your initial premise.




Because you said so right?



Imprisonment by itself isn't rehabilitation either, rehab is something goes side-by-side with punitive measures. So does that mean we should abolish imprisonment entirely because it's not rehab?



Mental relief is compensation. It's just less tangible than just giving them money or benefits.




Low crime and recidivism rates.



Has rehabilitation stopped crimes from being committed completely? It won't either, so it must be bad right?




Because you said so.



They can go hand in hand. Who cares about what the judge is thinking as long as the sentence handed out if within reason? If judge A is sadistic and judge B isn't, and they would decide on the exact same sentencing based on different mental reasoning, does that make a difference? Maybe your feelings might be offended, but the functional difference is non-existent.



Seeing someone receiving their just deserts or retribution after they have harmed you isn't psychopathy. It's a perfectly normal human reaction.

It's really nice to see people sling empty insults like "backwards shit hole", "medieval" and "psychopath" at entities that simply don't hold the same opinion as them.

Can't win arguments based on logic, facts and reason? No problem, sling more insults and hopefully people get distracted enough to address those non-sequiturs instead of the lack of a substantial argument.

Nope, deriving pleasure out of seeing someone receiving pain because you have suffered is psychopathic.

I did not anywhere insult you, i called a country that uses physical pain in order to punish someone a backwards medieval shit hole, and it is. It has been studied extensively and everything point towards it not deterring crime. If you still use it, even after people have done the research then the only thing that comes to mind is pleasure.

This has nothing to do with logic, you are the one that uses things like

Why not? Life is about doing enough pointless things to pass the time till death anyway.

And you dare to claim that use logic, that is facepalm worthy. There isn't a reasonable way to defend corporal punishment. If you cant win an argument with reason then you come and sling some stupid shit around and hope something sticks. Nothing so far has sticked, and nothing ever will stick, because corporal punishment is medieval.

Infracted

[Bakis]

As much as I am in love with Singapore caning is outrages. Slam them in a jail cell for a longer amount of time, they deserve some serious jail time.

[Deleted]

Oh please. It hurts really bad but its not life threatening at all. Hell lots of Pro Wrestlers get caned several nights a week for like $50 a night in pay (with welts, split skin sometimes requiring stitches/staples)

Umm. That's a bamboo sword. It's hollow. I used to practice kendo and thats exactly what we used. Sure it smarts abit if you get hit but I doubt very much its anything like a proper caning. Incomparable. Instead maybe refer to this video:

Warning: Nakked butt.

[PosPosPos]

Nope, deriving pleasure out of seeing someone receiving pain because you have suffered is psychopathic.

It's not. You might want to consult the DSM-5 for the proper definition of psychopathy.

I did not anywhere insult you, i called a country that uses physical pain in order to punish someone a backwards medieval shit hole, and it is.

I said "entities", not specifically referring to myself. Plus, you are clearly straddling the line of nation bashing, so I would recommend you to stop about now.

It has been studied extensively and everything point towards it not deterring crime.

In the US at least. In Singapore? Not remotely conclusive. Just because you claim something to be so doesn't make it so. The results Singapore have gotten speak for themselves, at least.

If you still use it, even after people have done the research then the only thing that comes to mind is pleasure.

Compensating victims has always involved pleasure to various extents. They aren't supposed to walk away from being victims being permanently traumatized because they suffered under their transgressors and get punished by the state because they weren't compensated or the criminals not punished.

This has nothing to do with logic, you are the one that uses things like

And you dare to claim that use logic, that is facepalm worthy. There isn't a reasonable way to defend corporal punishment. If you cant win an argument with reason then you come and sling some stupid shit around and hope something sticks. Nothing so far has sticked, and nothing ever will stick, because corporal punishment is medieval.

Uh, I am just using your logic against you. So if you are saying it's lacking in logic, that means your arguments lack substance as well. Simple cause and effect here. And yes, I dare to use your logic against you, so sue me.

[Deleted]

It's not. You might want to consult the DSM-5 for the proper definition of psychopathy.

Pretty sure that deriving pleasure from someone else their pain is psychopathic.

I said "entities", not specifically referring to myself. Plus, you are clearly straddling the line of nation bashing, so I would recommend you to stop about now.

I did not nation bash, i just said that if a nation uses backwards punishments that they are backwards.

In the US at least. In Singapore? Not remotely conclusive. Just because you claim something to be so doesn't make it so. The results Singapore have gotten speak for themselves, at least.

Right, because humans are sooo different, all these different races that react toooootally different to every situation. /s if it wasn't really obvious.

Compensating victims has always involved pleasure to various extents. They aren't supposed to walk away from being victims being permanently traumatized because they suffered under their transgressors and get punished by the state because they weren't compensated or the criminals not punished.

Compensating with monetary means can derive pleasure from the monetary means, but not from the pain others suffer, that is psychopathic. Their transgressors being traumatized too doesn't help them in any way. And if you call this logic then i suggest you take up a course in logic, because this has none.

Uh, I am just using your logic against you. So if you are saying it's lacking in logic, that means your arguments lack substance as well. Simple cause and effect here. And yes, I dare to use your logic against you, so sue me.

No you have not, you just throw some crap at the wall and hope something sticks, corporal punishment is indefensible. To bring physical pain to others is wrong, if you can not understand this simple concept then i don't know what to tell you.

[daenerys]

Corporal punishment doesn't work, jail time would be better.

They also got jail time in addition to the caning, I believe the article said they got the caning in addition to five and half to six and a half years.

[Deleted]

But im done with you and your psychopathic tendencies.

[Thoughtcrime]

Thank you for admitting that to your initial premise.

My argument was that it was pointless in the context of justice. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

Because you said so right?

Because history says so, and because the laws in developed nations say so. They're abolished for a reason, governments don't do those things in Europe and haven't done them for decades in some places, and hundreds of years in others.

Imprisonment by itself isn't rehabilitation either, rehab is something goes side-by-side with punitive measures. So does that mean we should abolish imprisonment entirely because it's not rehab?

I'll repeat myself. Caning is just torture as punishment that appeals to sadists. It might make the victim and people watching on youtube feel better if they're a sadistic savage or an imbecile but that's about it. Prisons serve justice in the form of punishment by isolating perpetrators from society while they work off their debt to society and as a place of rehabilitation so that they can rejoin society as productive members. If prison is punishment, applies to everyone equally, isolates criminals from society, provides a means to repay society, and rehabilitates offenders what was the point in torturing them?

Mental relief is compensation. It's just less tangible than just giving them money or benefits.

Speak to a counsellor, that's their job. You don't need to torture people to make yourself feel better.

Low crime and recidivism rates.

Why aren't places with corporal punishment the safest places on Earth then? The reverse is usually closer to the truth. Any impact it has on crime rates is proportional to appropriate prison sentences, and again; prison serves multiple purposes in the administration of justice while torture does not.

Because you said so.

As above, history and law in developed nations say so.

[Zoranon]

Umm. That's a bamboo sword. It's hollow. I used to practice kendo and thats exactly what we used. Sure it smarts abit if you get hit but I doubt very much its anything like a proper caning. Incomparable. Instead maybe refer to this video:

Warning: Nakked butt.

Corporeal punishment is absurdly outdated on its own, but the way Singapore and other countries in the are do it is pure sadism. From what I read, the scars from this are permanent, it should be called torture.

[Socialhealer]

Corporeal punishment is absurdly outdated on its own, but the way Singapore and other countries in the are do it is pure sadism. From what I read, the scars from this are permanent, it should be called torture.

and the mental ones the victim has aren't permanent?

[Zoranon]

and the mental ones the victim has aren't permanent?

Your point being? Torturing the criminals does not have any positive effects on the victims or anyone else.

[Flarelaine]

Your point being? Torturing the criminals does not have any positive effects on the victims or anyone else.

It has it if makes them feel better.

[Zoranon]

It has it if makes them feel better.

If it makes them feel better they are psychos who need to see a shrink.

[Thoughtcrime]

and the mental ones the victim has aren't permanent?

Being an educated, civilised human being is about aspiring to be better than our worst instincts. Society and law don't just need to appeal to the baser elements of our monkey brain while ignoring humanity and reason.

It has it if makes them feel better.

This is why courts appoint counselling. It provides proven and better cathartic results than having the villagers stand in a circle and stone a person.