Draenor Pathfidner needs to go.

[Teri]

It's not that i don't care about opinions not coinciding with mine, they are just wrong.
Meaningless grind is never good - you should know that by now - why are you even defending it if you know the truth?
Finally you get one point right, Suramar is worse than WoD.

Legion pathfinder Does take way more time and rep can't be bought via AH like WoD can, as even the 7.3 rep catchup token are BoA. So I agree suramar takes longer.

[WhiteEagle888]

YOU want flying on a silver plate for content that is according to your own words "obsolete" and only YOU dont seem to see how wrong that is.

The grind is obsolete not the flying /facepalm
Yes I want to fly on Draenor without doing pointless stuff if that was your question.

[netherflame]

No it really doesn't play the game, you earn the right to fly after you've experienced things. That is the entire point of those achievements and they should stay, everyone needs to stop being a fragile snowflake and earn things.

[Teri]

The grind is obsolete not the flying /facepalm

There's still a ton of grinds out there that are obsolete with no catchup, worse then pathfinder rep, Ogri'la exalted takes like a full month. Blizz did add timewalk rep tokens for TBC but not for ogri'la.

[Nuba]

I guess it's annoying for new players, but then again the experience is better when questing for the first time to do so by ground mount.

hell no
/10char

[A dot Ham]

The problem with removing the requirement is that it then undermines the whole reason for taking it away to begin with.

Blizzard's perspective is that the game is more immersive and the experience improved if you are required to play the game through from the ground. I disagree, but that is their position, and why they continue to take it away, and then give it back.

IF they remove it... even after making that zone/xpac irrelevant. Then they undermine that position.

[WhiteEagle888]

There's still a ton of grinds out there that are obsolete with no catchup, worse then pathfinder rep, Ogri'la exalted takes like a full month. Blizz did add timewalk rep tokens for TBC but not for ogri'la.

Interesting, naturally another solution for this is account wide reputation I would do that also. But WoD is different because not being able to fly is a much bigger issue.

[ChairmanKaga]

YOU want flying on a silver plate for content that is according to your own words "obsolete" and only YOU dont seem to see how wrong that is.

I am generally confused by this. It doesn't effect me either way as I played WoD when it was current, completed pathfinder etc. For people who returning to the game and did not play WoD (or maybe Pandaria as well) you can buy flying with gold in Outland and Northrend (also Cata EK/Kal) at 60 and 68 essentially immediately but are then grounded for the next two sections. Granted this is probably a small population but I don't really see the point in gating the Draenor flying this way or the Pandaria requiring the book. The way Northrend works seems the most logical or should that be reverted so you have to be 80 first? These areas are generally pretty empty of players either way. Ultimately I suppose the argument can be made with boosts this is all moot anyway ie this only applies to people who come back, don't have these unlocks, aren't willing to pay for a boost but want to level but don't want to go through doing so on the ground. That must be a small percentage of players.

[Teri]

Interesting, naturally another solution for this is account wide reputation I would do that also. But WoD is different because not being able to fly is a much bigger issue.

Yes but WoD rep is no issue if you are on a server with supply of Medallion of Legion (1000 rep for ALL draenor faction), also takes far less time to begin with.

Once again I came back in September 2016, on a DH did half the tanaan rep via dailies, half the rep via medallions to finish it up, of course the price has risen now as gold flowing in fast in Legion and less people in Tanaan.

Rep should be account wide, only reason I can see them not doing it cause you can do dailies/WQ 12x per server, or 50x per account. Same for Honor/prestige really. Even while it would be super monotonous to grind that way.

Right now I got 5 characters exalted with all of Legion, and enough BoA tokens to get another character exalted probably.

But BoA is different from WoD rep as you only get BoA tokens once you are already exalted.

[Blackmist]

Agree. Nobody wants to go back and get that. It's old enough content that all you'll do is annoy new players. And since new players are unicorns you can't really afford to scare them away with that.

[WhiteEagle888]

The problem with removing the requirement is that it then undermines the whole reason for taking it away to begin with.

Blizzard's perspective is that the game is more immersive and the experience improved if you are required to play the game through from the ground. I disagree, but that is their position, and why they continue to take it away, and then give it back.

IF they remove it... even after making that zone/xpac irrelevant. Then they undermine that position.

So you think Blizzard can't change their position about flying? Are you saying they are like Nintendo and any employee would commit harakiri if they did?

- - - Updated - - -

Agree. Nobody wants to go back and get that. It's old enough content that all you'll do is annoy new players. And since new players are unicorns you can't really afford to scare them away with that.

Exactly this

- - - Updated - - -

Yes but WoD rep is no issue if you are on a server with supply of Medallion of Legion (1000 rep for ALL draenor faction), also takes far less time to begin with.

Once again I came back in like 2016, did half the rep via dailies, half the rep via medallions to finish it up, of course the price has risen now as gold flowing in fast in Legion and less people in Tanaan.

Rep should be account wide, only reason I can see them not doing it cause you can do dailies/WQ 12x per server, or 50x per account. Same for Honor/prestige really. Even while it would be super monotonous to grind that way.

Right now I got 5 characters exalted with all of Legion, and enough BoA tokens to get another character exalted probably.

But BoA is different from WoD rep as you only get BoA tokens once you are already exalted.

Yes but that medallion shit is unnecessary altogether. We should do a flying quest instead - soar through the skies as a shaman imbues you with the spirit of air and the skies itself- would be good to have something like that in all previous zones

[Teri]

Agree. Nobody wants to go back and get that. It's old enough content that all you'll do is annoy new players. And since new players are unicorns you can't really afford to scare them away with that.

Most actual New new player probably more focused on 110 content anyway and might not even know it existed, especially if they boost right past WoD, or go DH to have 2 Legion-ready characters.

[Khallid]

Honestly either way is fine. This is a non-issue.

The game doesn't let you fly until you finish all the stuff because flying oversimplifies a lot of quests. But in no way is it "hard" to level up without flying. You can just chain-run dungeons you know.

[AcidicSyn]

Some of the requirements need to be nerfed - particularly the Reputations.
I wouldn't remove it, though.

Basically this. Make them play through the content as in- the leveling experience, once for the achieve. I mean hell, the first time leveling through WoD was, in my opinion, the best part of the entire expansion! I still remember the way I felt after the Ga'nar cinematic at the end of Frostfire. But I don't think they should necessarily need to farm rep or really anything in Tanann; as Tanann actually IS irrelevant for their leveling experience. Removing just the reputation requirements I think would be just fine.

[ChairmanKaga]

Most actual New new player probably more focused on 110 content anyway and might not even know it existed, especially if they boost right past WoD, or go DH to have 2 Legion-ready characters.

The guy I mentioned way back that made me even notice this all had started his sub up again but had not yet bought Legion since he wasn't 100 yet. Theoretically a new player could pay for the base game level to 60 buy flying in Outland and for EK/Kal, level to 68 (or is it 70) buy Northrend flying thus skipping all of that content on the ground, hit Pandaria and technically if aware buy flying at 85 (actually would this even be possible or would they need to be able to reach the BMAH in Legion Dal? ), then hit Draenor and ground level to 98. It does seem like a weird patchwork of rules.

I mean hell, the first time leveling through WoD was, in my opinion, the best part of the entire expansion!

I agree.

Basically this. Make them play through the content as in- the leveling experience, once for the achieve.

If this philosophy holds should new players also be required to be on the ground through Outland until 70 and Northrend till 80 (I guess also Cata AK/Kal flying would require 80 as well then) ?

[Demetrion]

No. Earn it like everyone else. Not like it's mandatory for leveling or anything.

You don't have flying in MoP and not many complain about it.

[WhiteEagle888]

No. Earn it like everyone else. Not like it's mandatory for leveling or anything.

You don't have flying in MoP and not many complain about it.

You realize there is flying in MoP right?

[Reclaimer]

Everything worth while should require effort, Flying in the legion and in any expansion is an extremely powerful boon. What it boils down to is the fact that blizzard is trying to make the games experience better for you.

1. You enter and start questing in the games new zones.
2. Hit max level and start exploring end game story content on ground mounts.
3. Blizzard understands sooner or later your going to see and do everything on the ground thus grants you the option for flying to speed up your everyday process.

What about this process do you guys not understand? I get you want this :

1. Enable flying off the bat for gold so you can miss out on exploring by flying over everything then after that your going to hit the fourms and cry that there is nothing to do like always because your finished leveling/grinding dailies of your new expack in under a week.

Sorry but that's not how MMO's survive. Basically, You all want your game to become a fancy Dot to Dot as you effortlessly fly between objectives without care right from the start however it should only be a boon that you have worked for after doing it on the grounds for a few months.

[WhiteEagle888]

The guy I mentioned way back that made me even notice this all had started his sub up again but had not yet bought Legion since he wasn't 100 yet. Theoretically a new player could pay for the base game level to 60 buy flying in Outland and for EK/Kal, level to 68 (or is it 70) buy Northrend flying thus skipping all of that content on the ground, hit Pandaria and technically if aware buy flying at 85 (actually would this even be possible or would they need to be able to reach the BMAH in Legion Dal? ), then hit Draenor and ground level to 98. It does seem like a weird patchwork of rules.



I agree.



If this philosophy holds should new players also be required to be on the ground through Outland until 70 and Northrend till 80 (I guess also Cata AK/Kal flying would require 80 as well then) ?

Exactly - do 1 quest link in a quest chain of flying unlocks for each zone at max level to that particular zone. Account bound Like pet battle quests.

Like learning to fly in outland against the Twisting Nether, in Northrend against the freezing wind, in Cataclysm against the elemental hazards, in MoP against the mist, in Draenor against the primordial winds and in Legion against the fel-tainted air. The issue would be gone and everything would become streamlined.

[Phuongvi]

You mean there's still people who don't have the Legion pathfinder ?

And by the way I don't care about removing the requirement achivement but pay 5000g for each toon. That's it.