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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    More aptly, if they are going to use their massive centralized place on the internet to curate it to their preferred political lens', why should anyone outside that narrow band of thought care if the Internet becomes throttled by ISP's. It seems materially the same internet either way if you are in that camp.

    At this present moment, if you were "#WithHer" you are unlikely to be allowed to voice much of an opinion on the internet as is, so what is the difference between an internet where Zuckerberg decides what you can and cannot say, and an internet were Charter-Spectrum, Comcast, AT&T ect decide what you can and cannot say?
    That's like saying you should treat the regulation of highways the same as you would regulate a grocery store. Net neutrality is about those who wish to control the means to even make it there. You are trying to equate the two, and it's just not the same thing.

  2. #42
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrysa View Post
    That's exactly why people with views like that, that aren't accepted by modern society, should WANT net neutrality.
    With net neutrality they will be able to make their own AltGoogle, AltYouTube, AltFacebook and not have to worry about being cut off from equal access to infrastructure.
    No they won't because the investment barrier to compete is outrageously high. Nobody can even set up an alternative patreon yet without a massive investment.

    The problem is there really cannot be equal access because realistically nobody can knock google, youtube or facebook out, especially since the three (really two since Youtube is Google) talk to one another and are pushing in the same direction. More over they do so with the approval of the Government who will never break those trusts up. So...... what does it matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That's like saying you should treat the regulation of highways the same as you would regulate a grocery store. Net neutrality is about those who wish to control the means to even make it there. You are trying to equate the two, and it's just not the same thing.
    From a practical perspective if Censorship is assured either way,

    You are either censored by blue haired harpies or bottomless amoral greed. Idk, I cannot really see a difference from a practical day to day perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    But lets be real here, NOBODY is going to break those monopolies. Heck, we can not even break the ISP monopolies. No president will ever enforce the Anti-Trust laws against google. Democrats are practically subsidiaries of Silicon Valley tech, and the GOP are ideological opposed to that AND bought out by corporate America anyway.
    You're most likely correct about the anti-trust issues. However, this has nothing to do with net neutrality. What you're talking about is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  4. #44
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    If ISIS doesn't support net neutrality does that make Comcast a terrorist?
    If ISIS wasn't courted to support Net Neutrality than why do we care about their perspective?

    If nobody expects them to back it, then nobody should be shocked that they aren't writing letters of support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    More aptly, if they are going to use their massive centralized place on the internet to curate it to their preferred political lens', why should anyone outside that narrow band of thought care if the Internet becomes throttled by ISP's. It seems materially the same internet either way if you are in that camp.
    But those tech companies are also the ones most likely to be able to pay to have their content not be throttled by the ISPs. So in trying to reduce their influence you only enhance it.

  6. #46
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Oh look, the supposed anti-globalist taking a pro-corporate stance simply to spite the Democrats. Shocker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    No they won't because the investment barrier to compete is outrageously high. Nobody can even set up an alternative patreon yet without a massive investment.

    The problem is there really cannot be equal access because realistically nobody can knock google, youtube or facebook out, especially since the three (really two since Youtube is Google) talk to one another and are pushing in the same direction. More over they do so with the approval of the Government who will never break those trusts up. So...... what does it matter?

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    From a practical perspective if Censorship is assured either way,

    You are either censored by blue haired harpies or bottomless amoral greed. Idk, I cannot really see a difference from a practical day to day perspective.
    Censorship is not assured either way. One allows for a viable alternative, the other is often a government-protected monopoly. If Facebook does not wish to work with someone, there are many, many viable alternatives. The same cannot be said for ISPs, at least not yet. Get the government out of the game, and you will have more competitors.

  8. #48
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Oh look, the supposed anti-globalist taking a pro-corporate stance simply to spite the Democrats. Shocker.
    Don;t fall for their routine, its as boring as the rest. A pale copy of Tenn's.

  9. #49
    Simple solution, use Bing, DailyMotion and Instagram.

    Other solution, stop using x-Chan, Reddit, Tumblr or whatever platform has convinced you Google is run by blue-haired harpies.

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    You're most likely correct about the anti-trust issues. However, this has nothing to do with net neutrality. What you're talking about is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    If Obama wouldn't do it, Hillary wouldn't have done it. Trump won't do it, nobody will do it.

    What I am talking about is a question of "What am I getting out of this?"

    If one is told "Well if you support Net Neutrality, then these giant silicon valley titans will be free to curate the Internet to their political agenda" vs. "Support the ISP's and they will be free to curate the internet to their endless apatite for money or their political agenda".

    I REALLY don't see a practical difference between those two forms of internet.

    If lets say there exists a platform that you are informed in no uncertain terms, your not welcome to say things on, why then would you support saving that platform from a greater threat to it? Either way the situation from your perspective is the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post

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    From a practical perspective if Censorship is assured either way,

    You are either censored by blue haired harpies or bottomless amoral greed. Idk, I cannot really see a difference from a practical day to day perspective.
    Put aside your fascination with protecting Nazi's and the KKK, because well fuck them with a rusty pipe. You do understand that without Net Neutrality the internet will get far more expensive and even slower in the states. The U.S. already has one of, if not the, the slowest and most expensive internet services in the modern world. The reason why is the ISP companies hold monopolies in almost all the U.S. and won't allow anyone to put in faster more affordable internet. So yes if you want your internet bills to skyrocket and your internet speed to plummet. Then please fuck everyone over because Nazi's lost one of their main internet pages.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    If ISIS wasn't courted to support Net Neutrality than why do we care about their perspective?

    If nobody expects them to back it, then nobody should be shocked that they aren't writing letters of support.
    I don't know why you care about their perspective, this whole thread is down-the-rabbit-hole levels of lunacy and broken logic.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Considering the Google Memo, and the revelations that have come out since, one should ask that if they are not Democratic Party loyalists or committed Social Justice types, should you support Net Neutrality.

    Why Not? Well, considering it is now accepted that people who aren't part of a group think can be censored, blacklisted, harassed, deplatformed, demonetized ect into oblivion on any platform on the web, what would be the material difference from your perspective of an internet censored by giant tech conglomerates versus ISP's?

    Clearly places like Google, Facebook, Youtube (by extension of being owned by Google), Twitter ect, the big players all wish to now censor speech and content they do not politically approve of. While that is their right, even if nakedly unethical, why then should you care if your not in with their political platform if some bigger player wrecks the internet for good?

    If you are anywhere outside of that narrow platform of Social Justice meets "Hillary Clinton is Radiant Light unto All Nations!" types you are going to be driven from the internet by these types anyway, so what is the material difference between an internet ruled by Social Justice Techies, and an Internet ruled by the ISP's wanton greed?
    You don't seem to understand what net neutrality is about at all. What Google does on its own platform or how it employs people has absolutely nothing to do with net neutrality.
    Google isn't censoring you or stopping you from speaking your mind. You're completely free to create a platform on which you can express yourself if you so wish. Your rights are not infringed upon just because Google polices its own platform the way it does.

    That's a terrible victim complex you've got. I'm not sure how anyone can hope to argue with that when you've just painted anyone that disagrees with you as your oppressor

  14. #54
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Put aside your fascination with protecting Nazi's and the KKK, because well fuck them with a rusty pipe. You do understand that without Net Neutrality the internet will get far more expensive and even slower in the states. The U.S. already has one of, if not the, the slowest and most expensive internet services in the modern world. The reason why is the ISP companies hold monopolies in almost all the U.S. and won't allow anyone to put in faster more affordable internet. So yes if you want your internet bills to skyrocket and your internet speed to plummet. Then please fuck everyone over because Nazi's lost one of their main internet pages.
    Yup, and let us unpack that first bit. Why should anyone outside of the Social Justice, Antifa, ect support net neutrality? I mean, pretty much any opinion outside of theirs is considered Nazism and in need of insta-censoring, so.... from the perspective of someone outside that band of thought, yeah I see no reason to care.

    I mean if your cause is so dependent on building a broad based coalition, why then start going after anyone on your platforms who isn't a committed lefty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  15. #55
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I guess Theo just thinks anyone who disagrees with them is an autist.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Yup, and let us unpack that first bit. Why should anyone outside of the Social Justice, Antifa, ect support net neutrality? I mean, pretty much any opinion outside of theirs is considered Nazism and in need of insta-censoring, so.... from the perspective of someone outside that band of thought, yeah I see no reason to care.

    I mean if your cause is so dependent on building a broad based coalition, why then start going after anyone on your platforms who isn't a committed lefty?
    Except when the website that was taken down was actually run by Nazi's. So yes while everyone that you don't agree with isn't a Nazi, in this instance they were fucking Nazis.

  17. #57
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    You don't seem to understand what net neutrality is about at all. What Google does on its own platform or how it employs people has absolutely nothing to do with net neutrality.
    Google isn't censoring you or stopping you from speaking your mind. You're completely free to create a platform on which you can express yourself if you so wish. Your rights are not infringed upon just because Google polices its own platform the way it does.

    That's a terrible victim complex you've got. I'm not sure how anyone can hope to argue with that when you've just painted anyone that disagrees with you as your oppressor
    I understand well what it means. I am not saying one is the other.

    I am saying that if the central hub of the internet for all practical purposes is going to act as it does, what is the difference for me as a consumer with opinions that are not "#WithHer".

    Sure, maybe someone can rally 20 billion or so dollars to challenge Google, but probably not since nobody will bust that trust.

    So from my perspective as a user, there difference between ISP ruled internet, and Silicon Valley Tech giant ruled internet is nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    If Obama wouldn't do it, Hillary wouldn't have done it. Trump won't do it, nobody will do it.

    What I am talking about is a question of "What am I getting out of this?"

    If one is told "Well if you support Net Neutrality, then these giant silicon valley titans will be free to curate the Internet to their political agenda" vs. "Support the ISP's and they will be free to curate the internet to their endless apatite for money or their political agenda".

    I REALLY don't see a practical difference between those two forms of internet.

    If lets say there exists a platform that you are informed in no uncertain terms, your not welcome to say things on, why then would you support saving that platform from a greater threat to it? Either way the situation from your perspective is the same.
    I think the problem is you've invented two situations that have little bearing on reality and whilst it's absolutely fascinating the lack of coherence makes it difficult for people outside of your head to form an argument either for or against it. You might as well ask why should we stop the moon howling when it will only start dripping blood on the hills.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Except when the website that was taken down was actually run by Nazi's. So yes while everyone that you don't agree with isn't a Nazi, in this instance they were fucking Nazis.
    Not important, if that is the direction of the internet, then there isn't much of a material difference. The precedent is cast and its already more than "Those bad guys on the Stormer".

    So what is the difference if your not a registered Democrat wanting to state your opinions and give voice to your words?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    You don't seem to understand what net neutrality is about at all. What Google does on its own platform or how it employs people has absolutely nothing to do with net neutrality.
    Google isn't censoring you or stopping you from speaking your mind. You're completely free to create a platform on which you can express yourself if you so wish. Your rights are not infringed upon just because Google polices its own platform the way it does.

    That's a terrible victim complex you've got. I'm not sure how anyone can hope to argue with that when you've just painted anyone that disagrees with you as your oppressor
    Nazi's have the right to spread racism and genocidal messages just as much as ISIS has the right to have a website to recruit new followers and post beheading videos.

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