[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[ReD-EyeD]

now if you can't understand why it's not as good as with combo and barely a dps increase with HT i can't help you

Regardless what Antico is saying you still don't understand that EVEN WITHOUT BoC Face Palm relics worth ~60 lvls. This is exactly what I was asking you to sim for yourself. Of course it's even more insane when coupled with BoC, nobody is denying that, but saying that FP relics is a damage decrease with only ~15-20 lvl is just plain wrong.

And this is exactly why these dps shenanigans forbids you to be in a good percentile on warcraftlogs regardless of how good you're at your rotation execution and boss encounter.
DPS trinkets vs defensive trinkets is such a non-issue compared to stuff like that.

[antico]

listen Lady, your argument was that it is possible to parse 90+ without offensive items, talents and relics just by executing a perfect rotation, to which I responded, can you back you claim with relevent logs supporting it, (I understand you cannot prove it yourself, simply cause you wont swap those 3 FP relics, that's weeks if not months of farming) unfortunetly you decided to go personal calling me names. I understand you dont like being disagreed with on the internet, but I implore you, cast your emotions aside and simply prove me wrong. I refuse to belive you cant. There are over 11 thousand logs in that bracket, someone has to be doing it.

[PinDrop]

listen Lady, your argument was that it is possible to parse 90+ without offensive items, talents and relics

90th percentile on goroth is 521k which is easily doable with HT/abbey and defensive trinkets

Relics were not brought up by Mokuna at all, you brought them up first. Pretty sure Mokuna's argument assumed 3 FP, as the damage that they provide is assumed when talking high parses. Pretty hard without them. Don't misquote people to try and prove a point.

Not saying I agree that 90+ is possible with a more defensive build, you'd have to specifically arrange the fight for it to be possible, like having your co-tank take all the burning armors so you get 100% uptime, etc, and I doubt anyone is doing that while also running a defensive build, so no parse is going to exist without being made on purpose to prove this point.

[Raiz]

Can someone explain me why FP relics are good ? If so, how relevant is it for someone who use BoC talent with BoS followed by Keg Smash or Breath of Fire and never with Tiger Palm ?
I've always played like this because I loved the reduced brews cooldown it generates from BoC. I always went for something like this : BoS > KG > TP > BoS > BoF > TP and eventually when I have both KG and BoF on CD, I'd use TP. It's just that, for me at least, KG and BoF always took priorities over TP.
Keep in mind I don't have the Chest leg yet. But even so, I'm curious what your rotation would have been ?

[PinDrop]

Can someone explain me why FP relics are good ? If so, how relevant is it for someone who use BoC talent with BoS followed by Keg Smash or Breath of Fire and never with Tiger Palm ?
I've always played like this because I loved the reduced brews cooldown it generates from BoC. I always went for something like this : BoS > KG > TP > BoS > BoF > TP and eventually when I have both KG and BoF on CD, I'd use TP. It's just that, for me at least, KG and BoF always took priorities over TP.
Keep in mind I don't have the Chest leg yet. But even so, I'm curious what your rotation would have been ?

Generally, you don't empower Keg Smash for the brew cooldown because with the ISB cap, there actually is a point where you can have too many brews, and it's rather easy to hit that running Black Ox Brew. If you need the defensive benefit of more brews, running HT would be more helpful than increasing Keg's brew CDR.

The only reason you would empower Breath of Fire would be to either keep the dot up, or to press it more often for more damage. The increased dot length now makes it unnecessary for upkeep, and empowering TP gives you more damage than a reduced CD on Breath of Fire, unless you're hitting a very, very large number of targets. Running dungeons comes to mind though, having a breath ready for every pack is nice.

FP relics affect your already empowered combo TPs, which multiplies the boosted damage by a great amount, which is why they give more dps than any other relic. Hot Blooded relics or Potent Kick are the defensive choices, but Hot blooded is only 1% per relic, and Potent Kick just eases ISB upkeep and gives you more brews to purify with, which generally isn't hard to do for most(again BoB gives a lot of brews already), which is why TP is the go-to choice.

If you run easier content and you like empowering Keg Smash and Breath of Fire all the more power to you, but yeah, TP relics won't give you as much of a boost, but I think they are still be the best dps-wise, not sure about the numbers exactly. I used to run HT exclusively awhile back, and I still went for TP relics and noticed a large increase in my damage when I got a new one, then I tried Blackout Combo and it was night and day.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I'm still new here, just gearing up my BrM, and only just starting to think about farming good relics. I'm guessing someone has a list of where to find our bis relics? Can someone link such a list?

Thanks!
Brewmaster Kolee

[ReD-EyeD]

I'm still new here, just gearing up my BrM, and only just starting to think about farming good relics. I'm guessing someone has a list of where to find our bis relics? Can someone link such a list?

Thanks!
Brewmaster Kolee

Defensive: Hot Blooded >>> Potent Kick = Overflow (slightly goes up if you have 2p/4p set)
DPS: Face Palm

The rest is pretty much whatever. As to where find them I don't have a list, but you can use the dungeon journal in-game or wowhead.

[Deleted]

I'm still new here, just gearing up my BrM, and only just starting to think about farming good relics. I'm guessing someone has a list of where to find our bis relics? Can someone link such a list?

Thanks!
Brewmaster Kolee

Face Palm drops in Neltharions Lair (Life), Halls of Valor (Storm) and Eye of Azshara (Iron). Hot Blooded is much more common, but I don't know where they drop off the top of my head.

If you want to play Black out Combo, which is a very flexible build that can be used for maximum dps by empowering Tiger palm and used defensively in other parts of the fight by empowering mostly ISB and Keg Smash, you probably want to run as much Face Palm as you can get. Mainly because they are a massive dps increase for that build (they are a lot less effective if you are running other builds). It also helps with energy management because more FP means shorter brew cooldown, and therefore less CD on Black Ox Brew, which gives you a full energy bar.

If you want to run the standard defensive build: Black Ox Brew + High Tolerance, the best relics are probably Hot Blooded. They are still the second best relics dps wise (slightly edging out the new DoD trait as far as I know) and give you 1% damage reduction, which is kinda nice. These two builds are low haste builds and are in general considered to be working well.

Then there are the two more fringe defensive builds. They are also running High Tolerance, but no Black Ox Brew. Instead you either take Light Brewing and stack haste to get as much purification out of it as possible. This synergizes really well with Potent Kick relics and makes you take less damage overall but your damage intake is a lot less stable. I don't really get what the appeal of this build is because it isn't like monk tanks with the standard build are a healing sponge.

The other idea was running current 4 set with T19 2p, GotM and HT. That would be a completely defensive build, probably with wrists and another defensive non-tier slot legendary, to mitigate extreme amounts of damage intake. If there was a fight with really, really, really high tank damage, this would probably be the go to build, but there doesn't seem to be a fight where you want to go this way.

TL; DR: Go with FP/Hot Blooded and you are fine. Keep all the FP, HB and Potent Kick relics you are not using and hope they get a good second trait on the crucible.

[vsb]

Two hot blooded relics dropped in BRH. One dropped in ToS. Actually it's easy to check them with dungeon journal, setup filters and search.

There's 5% DPS increase with 7/7 FP, so one FP relic is 1.7% DPS increase with BoC. IMO it's not worth it over defensive Hot Blooded relic, because you can't switch relics around easily and 5% of tank DPS is pretty negligible, while 3% of incoming damage reduce is huge.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think about new set bonuses? Looks like pure garbage for me. Monk has enough avoidance already and I'm rarely dying because I didn't avoid enough, but what I'm actually dying from is huge magic spells, thanks to our stagger nerfs.

What's kind of damage will Argus bosses unleash on tanks? Considering that Blizzard can't find a sweet medium, they'll go magic heavy again, I guess. Monks might struggle with that.

[Noodleface]

I've never had a single FP relic drop EVER. Not even for other people in my group.

I routinely parse 80-90's: 94 on H KJ. I wonder if I'd parse 99% with FP.

I'll never know..

[ReD-EyeD]

I've never had a single FP relic drop EVER. Not even for other people in my group.

I routinely parse 80-90's: 94 on H KJ. I wonder if I'd parse 99% with FP.

I'll never know..

With 3 FPs easily.

[dirtybrew]

Mystic vitality or Healing elixir? Which is better for grievous?

[ReD-EyeD]

Mystic vitality or Healing elixir? Which is better for grievous?

Depending on the dungeon and healer. With DC priest I would take Healing Elixir and probably with undergeared druid.

Mystic Vitality is not that awesome in M+ unless you need to survive some specific burst like shade of aran (or whatever it's called now, shade of medivh?) in karazhan and similar.

[antico]

Mystic vitality or Healing elixir? Which is better for grievous?

that depends on the dungeon, there are some high magic damage dungeons, where you want that extra stagger, while others have a more physical oriented profile, if you really need the sustain, I'd go for healing elixirs. I constantly swap around stagger and talent ring and the keg smash shoulders, depending on what dungeon am I running. for example NL I use the stagger ring, UK talent ring, and anything bellow a 15 I run shoulders (chest is like a perma leggo for me, I'm constantly working around never taking it off)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Face Palm drops in Neltharions Lair (Life), Halls of Valor (Storm) and Eye of Azshara (Iron). Hot Blooded is much more common, but I don't know where they drop off the top of my head.

If you want to play Black out Combo, which is a very flexible build that can be used for maximum dps by empowering Tiger palm and used defensively in other parts of the fight by empowering mostly ISB and Keg Smash, you probably want to run as much Face Palm as you can get. Mainly because they are a massive dps increase for that build (they are a lot less effective if you are running other builds). It also helps with energy management because more FP means shorter brew cooldown, and therefore less CD on Black Ox Brew, which gives you a full energy bar.

If you want to run the standard defensive build: Black Ox Brew + High Tolerance, the best relics are probably Hot Blooded. They are still the second best relics dps wise (slightly edging out the new DoD trait as far as I know) and give you 1% damage reduction, which is kinda nice. These two builds are low haste builds and are in general considered to be working well.

Then there are the two more fringe defensive builds. They are also running High Tolerance, but no Black Ox Brew. Instead you either take Light Brewing and stack haste to get as much purification out of it as possible. This synergizes really well with Potent Kick relics and makes you take less damage overall but your damage intake is a lot less stable. I don't really get what the appeal of this build is because it isn't like monk tanks with the standard build are a healing sponge.

The other idea was running current 4 set with T19 2p, GotM and HT. That would be a completely defensive build, probably with wrists and another defensive non-tier slot legendary, to mitigate extreme amounts of damage intake. If there was a fight with really, really, really high tank damage, this would probably be the go to build, but there doesn't seem to be a fight where you want to go this way.

TL; DR: Go with FP/Hot Blooded and you are fine. Keep all the FP, HB and Potent Kick relics you are not using and hope they get a good second trait on the crucible.

Good stuff - thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

Two hot blooded relics dropped in BRH. One dropped in ToS. Actually it's easy to check them with dungeon journal, setup filters and search.

There's 5% DPS increase with 7/7 FP, so one FP relic is 1.7% DPS increase with BoC. IMO it's not worth it over defensive Hot Blooded relic, because you can't switch relics around easily and 5% of tank DPS is pretty negligible, while 3% of incoming damage reduce is huge.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think about new set bonuses? Looks like pure garbage for me. Monk has enough avoidance already and I'm rarely dying because I didn't avoid enough, but what I'm actually dying from is huge magic spells, thanks to our stagger nerfs.

What's kind of damage will Argus bosses unleash on tanks? Considering that Blizzard can't find a sweet medium, they'll go magic heavy again, I guess. Monks might struggle with that.

Got it, thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

908 and gearing up atm, still looking for that first real lego.

Meanwhile I am using mostly crafted gear, including two DM's: Immortality (no-brainer) and Dominion. It occurred to me tonight that I am alchemist so could replace Dominion with Philosopher's Stone, but should I?

• 1180 Versatility vs ~ 1329 Crit
• 2063 passive Agility vs 7591 Agi proc

To me the Darkmoon looks like a clear winner, although I don't know proc rate on the stone. Anyone have insight on this I should consider?

[ReD-EyeD]

To me the Darkmoon looks like a clear winner, although I don't know proc rate on the stone. Anyone have insight on this I should consider?

Pretty sure the uptime is 24.4%, but blizzard could stealthnerf it for tanks, doubt it tho.

[anon5123]

Is Stagger level a good indicator of incoming damage levels? The big thing that worries me as a tank is that I'm always paranoid that I'm taking too much damage and straining the healer.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Is Stagger level a good indicator of incoming damage levels? The big thing that worries me as a tank is that I'm always paranoid that I'm taking too much damage and straining the healer.

Ask them. They will let you know. Most of the time, keeping ISB up and not seeing your health bar dip is good enough to keep healers happy. If your health bar is dipping, healers might be straining. When you do get ahead - ISB has time to spare and you have a brew to spare, go ahead and purify IF you are in red.

Later you will learn the fights and know exactly when you need to purify. Meanwhile this approach should work out fine.

- - - Updated - - -

I shouldn't pass myself off as an expert on Brewmaster, as I am still learning myself. This is my 6th tank - one of each - so I'm comfortable with the basics. What is working for me so far is:

1. Keep ISB up 100% so healers never get caught by surprise.
2. Watch both stagger level AND health bar; if stagger is red but health is full, this means healers are keeping up.
3. Keep RJW up so I'll always be picking up loose adds.
4. Purify if ISB has plenty of time left, stagger is high, and I have a brew to spare.
5. Save big CDs for when health bar is dipping (healers falling behind) or I know big damage is incoming.

More experienced Brewmasters can weigh in if I am leading you astray.

[vsb]

You don't need to keep ISB 100%. If you're not tanking, it's waste of brews. I highly recommend to use better way to watch stagger than default interface, 100% stagger isn't that much.

Basically you have limited brews, some are spent for ISB, so few that left could be spent for purifying. You must purify as big stagger as possible. So it all comes to planning and knowing the encounter. If you expect huge damage (e.g. felclaws), save brews. If damage is steady and your avoidance failed so you got hit few times and stagger is higher than usual, purify. If you expect some time without external healing, purify in advance.

[Tech614]

You don't need to keep ISB 100%. If you're not tanking, it's waste of brews.

No it's not, it's actually a waste of brews to NOT keep up ISB while not tanking. You're only "wasting" brews that couldn't be used while tanking, you just keep excess stacks and leave 1 on CD at all times.