Who has more Power? Arthas or Illidan?

[sam86]

How exactly is that even up to debate ? we literally have it officially answered

[Noradin]

Illidan, Arthas is dead.

[Magnagarde]

I wasn't talking about that.

Then why talk about it in the first place, when that was the thing that I replied to him about in the first place?

His exhaustion wasn't removed nor did it say anywhere that the proximity mattered, so what are we talking about here lol

[Reza2001]

Source of this?

It's a double edge sword, you cannot really say that he didn't nullified his exhaustion because we don't know it.

But I think that he( @Reza2001 ) had right:
I think that Lich Kings has more power than Arthas, just enough to restore it to full.
All we know is that Lich King restored his power, he didn't say Lich King gave me a little of his power, or - I feel better - so we can clearly say that he restored all of his powers.

EDIT:
Okay found it - he's level 10 on that mission - which means he has all his power restored. And yes - that means it. When he was weakened he was losing levels by each mission, at the end, at the Frozen Throne he has level 10 - which obvious means that he has all his power restored.



I wasn't talking about that.

You got it right
The Lich King restored his powers , And they were fighting near ICC (So the lich king is like right next to Arthas)
That Aside , The Lich King was observing the fight (most likely) We know that The Lich King was connected with Frostmourne , Right ?
The novel has stated that Frostmourne urged Arthas to rally , I believe it was the Lich King ... Why would he send that boost ? Because if he hadn't , Then Arthas would have lost and gg ez Illidan destroys the Lich King afterwards

[A dot Ham]

And this was before Arthas put the helm on I might add.

Yup this was answered, and technically we defeated Illidan before we defeated Arthas... making Illidan the lesser of the 2.

[Reza2001]

If you find a piece of lore that suggests the proximity to the Frozen Throne made Arthas not be weakened anymore(in that sense and order; prove that he was no longer weak/exhausted because he was close), provide it here and you'll be right, but please don't make useless copy/paste posts that do not back your posts up.
People should get their head around the English language before reading any books written in that language lmao ^^

Sounds like someone needs help in Lore ...
The Lich King's powers were getting decreased/withering due to the Earthquake Illidan made by using the Eye of Sargeras (Or are you gonna say this is false too ?) it caused damage to the Frozen Throne (So did it damage the Lich King and caused his powers to ...) , But Illidan failed to destroy it anyways
So he told Arthas to come to him , Aka come to the Icecrown citadel ... Arthas got closer to the frozen throne , He got close to the Lich King , So the Lich King gave him / Restored his powers , Why ? Because they were closer together than before
Can the Lich King restore his champion's power while he was in lordaeron (and he was weakned due to the earthquake) ? No he can't , because he is weakened and lordaeron IS FAR AWAY
Can the Lich King restore his champions's power while he is really close to him ? Yes he can , Because Arthas is right close to him (so that means Arthas is more powerful when he is close to the Frozen Throne , There you go I proved my point)
The Lich King had restored his powers , Because he was close enough to the Frozen Throne to get it ... It's like having a poor wifi signal , Then you go near the router and get a better wifi signal ... That's the simple way I can say how the "Arthas's level 10 near Frozen throne" or "He is near the Frozen Throne so he is more powerful" worked in the entire storyline since Arthas had all of his powers from the Lich King ... When the Lich King is weakened so is Arthas weakened , If Arthas is close to the Lich King He get's his powers back because he is close to him and he can get the powers without any effort since he is close to the Lich King
I've read the book , And I don't know from where have you got the "You don't know language lmao" from , But since you don't know me then I can safely say that you failed hardly at it , Good luck trying to prove it tho ^^

Nowhere in the lore does it state that Arthas' proximity mattered. It is a "lore fact" that you yourself made up about Arthas not being weakened.

ahahahaha , When did I say that Arthas wasn't weakened ? Arthas WAS weakened when he was in Lordaeron , But near the Frozen Throne ? No he wasn't weakened and I explained all of it above
The Power of Arthas in Lordaeron =/= The Power of Arthas near The Frozen Throne
Check your lore facts please

[Eazy]

His exhaustion wasn't removed nor did it say anywhere that the proximity mattered, so what are we talking about here lol

His exhaustion was removes, stop trolling/baiting already, please.

we killed illidan, we really didnt kill the LK, he was kinda just messing with us

Uhm, what? Illidan could've killed us easily(and he was on his deathbed for the whole fight) if it wasn't Maiev, same for LK and Tirion.

[Piplupzero]

Lich King Arthas no doubt. Demon hunters are designed to kill demons, death knights are designed to kill everything. I'd put my money on a man who can raise a field of corpses in an instant rather than someone who can do some flips.

[Synros]

At the time they fought, Arthas was leagues above Illidan. Arthas was pretty much screwing with him, because he knew Illidan's failure would bring Kil'Jaeden's wrath down on him. If they fought again today, that's a tough one. Yes, Illidan has gained far more power, but Arthas would now be the Lich King. I honestly think it would be extremely close, but not sure who would win.

[Reza2001]

Lich King Arthas no doubt. Demon hunters are designed to kill demons, death knights are designed to kill everything. I'd put my money on a man who can raise a field of corpses in an instant rather than someone who can do some flips.

Death Knights aren't designed to kill Demons ... The Runeblade's Archetype says hi , They are not designed to steal demon souls but instead are designed to steal mortal souls
While Demon Hunters are demons , A soul-sucking sword is nothing but a regular sword , Why ? Because it doesn't steal demon souls (Frostmourne vs Mal'ganis as an example / Frostmourne vs Illidan as an example)

[Doctor Amadeus]

Which ever one Chris Metzen likes more. Just kidding Arthas.

[Sigxy]

I'm guessing we're talking about pre-Lich king Arthas, because otherwise, keep in mind: One of his powers is to control the undead Scourge. He would've beaten Illidan with it. And no, having a lot of Demon Hunter followers is NOT a power.

As for pre-Lich King... depends what we mean by power. If we discuss fighting capabilites, gonna say Arthas. Speaking of the final battle at Icecrown that they had, Arthas first had to deal with Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj and THEN he could fight Illidan. And even if Illidan in the novel (I wanna go for TFT campaign, but if anything, I'll consider the quest in WoW where you witness the fight to be the best example) managed to beat Arthas pretty badly, he still lost. Doesn't matter what you say, his arrogance made him lose and Arthas was the one who won it. Arthas is the better fighter.

Also, if we take in the raid fights - Illidan 'stunned' us all and we got saved by Maiev, leader of the Wardens. Arthas 'killed' us all and we got saved by the leader of the Argent Crusade, Tirion (who himself got help from the Light), who wielded the Ashbringer.


If it was a 1vs1 between them in modern time, eh, I guess it could be equal grounding if Illidan keeps his metamorphosis up all the time and Arthas the Lich King doesn't bring in so many of his undead - but that's just my opinion.

[Reza2001]

His exhaustion was removes, stop trolling/baiting already, please..

This guy thinks we are talking about Arthas when he was in Lordaeron ...
Where his power level was WAY OFF the actual power level
The Lich King got damaged by Illidan's use of the Eye of Sargeras , It's like damaging a network signal ... You get poor signal from the other side , The powers of Arthas , all of them came from the Lich King , Without him he is nothing but a Death Knight that can't even cast a death coil

[Hctaz]

What is funny is people don't want to get over this entire "Illidan vs Arthas" OR "Who is stronger ? Illidan or Arthas?" it has already been answered in the novel : Illidan was stronger BUT he lost to Arthas due to his Arrogance , He was basically overwhelming him with his Warglaives and Arthas was exhausted by his fight with Kael'thas And then he went Metamorphosis and started flying , He casted a fel-ball and made Arthas feel pain (That's impressive if you ask me , Making an Undead Death Knight like Arthas to feel pain) then Illidan Started using Lethal attacks to finish him off , It was the call of frostmourne that saved Arthas from getting owned , a total of 2 slashes from Frostmourne was enough to bring Illidan down

I mean Arthas is also the Lich King so... he kinda gained a significant amount of power beyond that point as well. He was probably way stronger than Illidan is now as the Lich King and we know that WAS Arthas.

[Saybel]

Legion Illidan > WoTLK Lich King > TBC Illidan > TFT Illidan > TFT Arthas

WoTLK Lich King is literally a tier (or two) above TFT Arthas due to having access to multitudes of kinds of different magic and having had time to learn LK knowledge.

Legion Illidan is clearly above WoTLK LK though.

[SirCowdog]

Legion Illidan > WoTLK Lich King > TBC Illidan > TFT Illidan > TFT Arthas

WoTLK Lich King is literally a tier (or two) above TFT Arthas due to having access to multitudes of kinds of different magic and having had time to learn LK knowledge.

Legion Illidan is clearly above WoTLK LK though.

THANK YOU! Someone actually gets it.

Everyone is so focused on that one fight during Frozen Throne, they're missing all the other information on what these two guys are capable of.

[Reza2001]

Legion Illidan > WoTLK Lich King > TBC Illidan > TFT Illidan > TFT Arthas

WoTLK Lich King is literally a tier (or two) above TFT Arthas due to having access to multitudes of kinds of different magic and having had time to learn LK knowledge.

Legion Illidan is clearly above WoTLK LK though.

You got it completely right
People underestimate Illidan , If a rematch was to ever happen Illidan would kick his ass since he learned one thing back to his fight near ICC , Never go melee when you can fel-bombard someone to death
I bet he can do what he did to Gul'dan , to Arthas

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I mean Arthas is also the Lich King so... he kinda gained a significant amount of power beyond that point as well. He was probably way stronger than Illidan is now as the Lich King and we know that WAS Arthas.

Illidan in Legion > Illidan in BC
Illidan was near his deathbed yet he was able to imprison us and would have killed us
Now Illidan's body has refreshed since the time his soul went to the Twisting Nether , I bet he has learnt some new tactics against opponents , I mean he has been seen fighting Kil'jaeden (that's right .. The creator of the Lich King) with the help of Velen and Khadgar inside the Tomb of Sargeras , He has killed Gul'dan (the most powerful warlock to have ever existed , of course his alternate universe self) with fel magic

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Everyone is so focused on that one fight during Frozen Throne, they're missing all the other information on what these two guys are capable of.

Yeah , It's the sad part people don't know the difference between "who can win the fight ?" and "who has more power?"

[Hctaz]

Illidan in Legion > Illidan in BC
Illidan was near his deathbed yet he was able to imprison us and would have killed us
Now Illidan's body has refreshed since the time his soul went to the Twisting Nether , I bet he has learnt some new tactics against opponents , I mean he has been seen fighting Kil'jaeden (that's right .. The creator of the Lich King) with the help of Velen and Khadgar inside the Tomb of Sargeras , He has killed Gul'dan (the most powerful warlock to have ever existed , of course his alternate universe self) with fel magic

How do you assume he was stronger in Legion than in BC? Why do you say he was near his deathbed? During the fight? You mean we actually damaged him? Because we didn't damage Arthas at all. The only reason we won was because Frostmourne got shattered and he was trapped by the hundreds of thousands of souls that the blade had stolen. He played with us until he saw we didn't fall over dead and then instantly killed us. He could have done that from the beginning of the fight. I've never seen Illidan one shot everybody in a raid before.

Yeah sure he was fighting against Kil'jaeden but that doesn't mean much. It's not like he won or even made any significant progress against him. They needed us to fight him because they couldn't win. And you act as if Velen and Khadger aren't significant to the fact that Kil'jaeden didn't turn him into dust. And more importantly: Kil'jaeden making the Lich King is entirely irrelevant. The Lich King was definitely gaining in power much faster than KJ expected which is why he sent Illidan to take him out. Every single undead that the Lich King has under his control makes him physically more powerful. He was probably already more powerful than KJ when we fought him inside of ICC but lost because the Ashbringer shattered Frostmourne and let out thousands of souls. Not only did that weaken his power but the souls themselves were strong enough to make him unable to fight just like the wisps from WC3 causing Archimonde to explode.

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Legion Illidan > WoTLK Lich King > TBC Illidan > TFT Illidan > TFT Arthas

WoTLK Lich King is literally a tier (or two) above TFT Arthas due to having access to multitudes of kinds of different magic and having had time to learn LK knowledge.

Legion Illidan is clearly above WoTLK LK though.

I mean you're forgetting that every single soul that the Lich King has under his control just physically makes him stronger as well as Frostmourne gaining in strength with every soul it takes as well. He was probably stronger than all of the Burning Legion sans Sargeras by the time we fought him in ICC. I mean he froze Tirion in a block of ice with the flick of his wrist and that was the man almost as powerful as the player character in Legion now. He killed every single person in the entire raid with the flick of his sword. The only reason we survived as long as we did was because he wanted to make sure it wasn't a fluke that we got to him. We didn't even deal real damage to him until he had his sword broken and lost all the power it contained as well as the fact that the thousands of souls from Frostmourne were, themselves, trapping him and making him unable to actually do anything about us beating on him.

[Reza2001]

How do you assume he was stronger in Legion than in BC? Why do you say he was near his deathbed? During the fight? You mean we actually damaged him? Because we didn't damage Arthas at all. The only reason we won was because Frostmourne got shattered and he was trapped by the hundreds of thousands of souls that the blade had stolen. He played with us until he saw we didn't fall over dead and then instantly killed us. He could have done that from the beginning of the fight. I've never seen Illidan one shot everybody in a raid before.

Yeah sure he was fighting against Kil'jaeden but that doesn't mean much. It's not like he won or even made any significant progress against him. They needed us to fight him because they couldn't win. And you act as if Velen and Khadger aren't significant to the fact that Kil'jaeden didn't turn him into dust. And more importantly: Kil'jaeden making the Lich King is entirely irrelevant. The Lich King was definitely gaining in power much faster than KJ expected which is why he sent Illidan to take him out. Every single undead that the Lich King has under his control makes him physically more powerful. He was probably already more powerful than KJ when we fought him inside of ICC but lost because the Ashbringer shattered Frostmourne and let out thousands of souls. Not only did that weaken his power but the souls themselves were strong enough to make him unable to fight just like the wisps from WC3 causing Archimonde to explode.

According to the new book , He was near his deathbed since he had performed a ritual (or something like that) and before that he had Destroyed a planet called Nathreza , He and his Demon Hunters were killing numerous Nathrezim like hot knife through butter , Then he opened several portals on the Planet , resulting in the planet's destruction (he did Ner'zhul's trick that had been done on Draenor) He must have got his body weakened by doing such things , Right ?

In Legion he has been atleast doing something , Also staying alive while fighting Kil'jaeden is not something that can be achieved easily (a Full summoned Kil'jaeden) I mean the guy has so many years of experience in magic , Being empowered by Sargeras himself ...
It's not even possible for Arthas to be more powerful than Kil'jaeden , Frostmourne isn't even strong against Demons , It's just a normal sword to them (This is a fact , Since Frostmourne can't steal Demon souls ... See Illidan / Mal'ganis) How is he going to even kill Kil'jaeden ? Sure the Lich King has powers , But all of them came from Kil'jaeden , Since he made the helm in the first place , He taught Ner'zhul how to use necromancy magic , And we know the Lich King's knowledge is basically Arthas's + Ner'zhul's knowledge , With Ner'zhul being killed off in dream by Arthas

If the Lich King had raised us all after killing us THEN He could have even solo'ed Kil'jaeden , But no that never happened , The reason why Kil'jaeden wanted him dead was due to the fact that he though The Lich King will raise the entire planet of Azeroth and ultimately get out of control and challenge him , At which point it never happened ...

[Saybel]

I mean you're forgetting that every single soul that the Lich King has under his control just physically makes him stronger as well as Frostmourne gaining in strength with every soul it takes as well. He was probably stronger than all of the Burning Legion sans Sargeras by the time we fought him in ICC. I mean he froze Tirion in a block of ice with the flick of his wrist and that was the man almost as powerful as the player character in Legion now. He killed every single person in the entire raid with the flick of his sword. The only reason we survived as long as we did was because he wanted to make sure it wasn't a fluke that we got to him. We didn't even deal real damage to him until he had his sword broken and lost all the power it contained as well as the fact that the thousands of souls from Frostmourne were, themselves, trapping him and making him unable to actually do anything about us beating on him.

Because my bet is that effortlessly opening a rift to Argus (opening a rift that large before required the Well of Eternity) is better then freezing the WoTLK player characters, even if the Keystone was used in it.

Almost every feat performed by both characters is unquantifiable, but if we're going to eyeball it - summoning a giant portal/rift to Argus is something that not even the Legion did. I'm going to go ahead and assume that after Gul'dan took his body, the preparations used to ensure that he could host the soul of Sargeras also strengthened him magically. I would put the LK as physically superior, but by now Illidan dwarfs him in terms of magical destructive capability which makes him more powerful.

Illidan would probably also win in 1 on 1 combat (something like 8-2 to Illidan), since he has experience fighting LK now and knows not to come close.

Again, WoTLK LK would trounce every other version of Illidan and generally almost any other humanoid character (i.e none eredar/deathwing) in the show bar maybe Khadgar.