Heroes are good - let's make statues of them

[Lochton]

How does not putting defenders of slavery on literal pedestals erase history? When is the alt-right going to issue some actual logical talking points on this?

The fact that you believe I am 'alt-right' is a sheer joke to me. And I am pretty sure these 'defenders of slavery' isn't all there for the cause of slavery. And if slavery is the reason that people hate them, I don't see people throwing away their bills, coins, etc.

The events I mention is the sheer stupidity events of tearing down statues because you can. Sorry to you extremist, but doesn't fucking change your past. Fuck it, I live about 2 hours away from an almost fully preserved concentration camp, you don't see us tearing that down, it is preserved to educate.

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But they're not burning libraries. That is where history is still preserved, why do you need a statue? Hypotheticals do not a good argument make.

Because humans is a plain species that creates monuments for various events in life.

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And no, a statue cannot hurt you, enslave you, or anything. It is a sculpture created. Only time it can hurt you, is if it deems actual oppression (which I still haven't seen a statue do) or one is so dumb to walk into one.

[Wyrt]

The fact that you believe I am 'alt-right' is a sheer joke to me. And I am pretty sure these 'defenders of slavery' isn't all there for the cause of slavery. And if slavery is the reason that people hate them, I don't see people throwing away their bills, coins, etc.

The events I mention is the sheer stupidity events of tearing down statues because you can. Sorry to you extremist, but doesn't fucking change your past. Fuck it, I live about 2 hours away from an almost fully preserved concentration camp, you don't see us tearing that down, it is preserved to educate.

You realize that's completely different right? Concentration camps are not glorifying the holocaust. They've remained as a remembrance to the horrors of genocide.

These statues were built 60+ years after the civil war to glorify the war fought over slavery and to remind the local black populations where their place in society was according to white supremacists.

You can put these status in museums, but they do not belong on public property glorifying slavery.

[zorkuus]

And if slavery is the reason that people hate them, I don't see people throwing away their bills, coins, etc.

Wait... what? Were they made to specifically honor a turbulent past? No they weren't.

Fuck it, I live about 2 hours away from an almost fully preserved concentration camp, you don't see us tearing that down, it is preserved to educate.

Statues don't typically have placards that explain their history. Apples and oranges.

And no, a statue cannot hurt you, enslave you, or anything. It is a sculpture created. Only time it can hurt you, is if it deems actual oppression (which I still haven't seen a statue do) or one is so dumb to walk into one.

No shit Sherlock. It's not what they do (or rather don't) but what they were built to represent.

[Lochton]

But they're not burning libraries. That is where history is still preserved, why do you need a statue? Hypotheticals do not a good argument make.

Yeah, bloody hell. Let's get rid of the Statue of Liberty while we're at it, that old lady has turned a bit patina anyways.

[Wyrt]

Yeah, bloody hell. Let's get rid of the Statue of Liberty while we're at it, that old lady has turned a bit patina anyways.

The statue of liberty is celebrating American independence from England. It's not celebrating slavery.

[Lochton]

Wait... what? Were they made to specifically honor a turbulent past? No they weren't.

Nope, but the discussion of slavery 'defenders' was brought into my comments, hence it was mentioned that some of your faces on your currency, did have slaves too.

Statues don't typically have placards that explain their history. Apples and oranges.

Nope, not always. Some do, else it is just the name. And some just have a small marker as to the event. Now, excuse me if I haven't seen any statue directly advocating racism or slavery, or anything else that may fall as a reason to be removed.

[zorkuus]

The statue of liberty is celebrating American independence from England. It's not celebrating slavery.

I'm either on acid or the world has lost some collective IQ points. These arguments... just... wow.

Now, excuse me if I haven't seen any statue directly advocating racism or slavery

That is why you open up a history book and read why they were built.

[Lochton]

The statue of liberty is celebrating American independence from England. It's not celebrating slavery.

I know, it is common fucking knowledge. It was a jab at the comment of:

But they're not burning libraries. That is where history is still preserved, why do you need a statue? Hypotheticals do not a good argument make.

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Nope, not always. Some do, else it is just the name. And some just have a small marker as to the event. Now, excuse me if I haven't seen any statue directly advocating racism or slavery, or anything else that may fall as a reason to be removed.

And I guess I have to cover the discussion of saying, but you can be a war hero and still having fought for the southern states.

[zorkuus]

I know, it is common fucking knowledge. It was a jab at the comment of:

You need to come up with better jabs because that doesn't make any sense in relation with my comment.

And I guess I have to cover the discussion of saying, but you can be a war hero and still having fought for the southern states.

You really need to read up on the time and place for when and why most of these statues were erected. It was less about war heroes and more about showing blacks "their place".

[Wyrt]

I know, it is common fucking knowledge. It was a jab at the comment of:


And I guess I have to cover the discussion of saying, but you can be a war hero and still having fought for the southern states.

Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of Hitler at the concentration camp near you?

[Lochton]

I'm either on acid or the world has lost some collective IQ points. These arguments... just... wow.

I am sorry about your IQ loss, RIP.

That is why you open up a history book and read why they were built.

Indeed, that is correct. But does that then mean the statue are actually a harm? Or is this a general discussion of people having a fear of their past?

Again, the human kind is a plain species that creates monuments. These monuments aren't always in celebration but some are in remembrance of where you once stood, and part of what you once fought to get here. A monument alone, isn't at harm. Your past alone, isn't at harm. Can't change where you came from just be tearing down a sculpture of bronze, iron, copper, stone. You're still in the books.

And if these statues were of people that is now a days considered of having done ill, are we then meant to tear down buildings that has been raised on recommendation of them? Are we then having to erase names of all these, just because we feel insecure about our past?

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I don't think monuments to slavery belong in public. They should be moved to museums if they have historical value.

I do at a way agree. But then so would it be stretched to other things too.

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Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of Hitler at the concentration camp near you?

Not needed, there's a few posters in his name there, authentic, actually. And a statue wouldn't be needed, for it is a damn concentration camp.

[Wyrt]

Not needed, there's a few posters in his name there, authentic, actually. And a statue wouldn't be needed, for it is a damn concentration camp.

But that's literally what these confederate statues are. Built decades after slavery ended in places like courthouses and slave auction houses where humans were treated like cattle. It's equivalent to building statues to honor Hitler at concentration camps.

[zorkuus]

Indeed, that is correct. But does that then mean the statue are actually a harm? Or is this a general discussion of people having a fear of their past?

That is not the issue. They were built to honor the dishonorable. There is no good reason whatsoever that losers of a war and generally horrible people should be honored in public for their actions. I can read about them from books if I want to.

[Lochton]

Just for comparison:

Here in Czechia, we have loads of monuments from the communist times that glorify the liberation by the Red Army in 1945. Of course, they liberated us, but also raped many women on the way and later forced our country into servitude and flat out invaded us 20 years later.

But we still have these monuments all over the place. This doesn't mean we support gulags, it means we want to remember history, what happened and why. To demolish those would be weak, pretending we've never done anything wrong, that nothing bad ever happened, and that we live in a sunshine rainbow land.

A bit easier explained, thank you. This is what I was trying to explain.

And as well, you have some lovely places there. Been a while, but can still remember most my time visiting. Heh.

[zorkuus]

Just for comparison:

Here in Czechia, we have loads of monuments from the communist times that glorify the liberation by the Red Army in 1945. Of course, they liberated us, but also raped many women on the way and later forced our country into servitude and flat out invaded us 20 years later.

But we still have these monuments all over the place. This doesn't mean we support gulags, it means we want to remember history, what happened and why. To demolish those would be weak, pretending we've never done anything wrong, that nothing bad ever happened, and that we live in a sunshine rainbow land.

Put them in a museum, problem solved. Why do you need to see them all the time to remember your past?

Let's build monuments to the 19 9/11 hijackers!

[Lochton]

But that's literally what these confederate statues are. Built decades after slavery ended in places like courthouses and slave auction houses where humans were treated like cattle. It's equivalent to building statues to honor Hitler at concentration camps.

Humans are still treated like cattle now and then but as I've stated before, I understand what you mean but doesn't mean it didn't happen. I am truly sorry that this chunk of earth we call home, has become with such a past but that is how it goes. And in the end, we can't avoid remembering the bad things if we wish to remember what good has come out of it.

That is not the issue. They were built to honor the dishonorable. There is no good reason whatsoever that losers of a war and generally horrible people should be honored in public for their actions. I can read about them from books if I want to.

I can't fully discuss this point, as for the United States, are divided in their selection of past and whom they wish to honor. And just to throw a text from a book, even the winners of war, can be losers. And no, you can't demand source, was a school text book that I can barely recall.

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Put them in a museum, problem solved. Why do you need to see them all the time to remember your past?

Why do you need to shelter yourself from the past? Same question. People HAS to learn about this, in one way or the other. I already hear about schools ruining kids by trying to shelter them from the past that our countries have had.

[Wyrt]

Why do you need to shelter yourself from the past? Same question. People HAS to learn about this, in one way or the other. I already hear about schools ruining kids by trying to shelter them from the past that our countries have had.

But these statues don't teach people. They glorify the confederacy. Same with some schools in the south. That's why we still have some many neo-confederate asshats and the KKK.

There are even statues honoring the complete shitstain of a human being that wrote the Dread Scott decision for the Supreme Court. Not condemning him, honoring him.

[zorkuus]

Why do you need to shelter yourself from the past? Same question.

It's not the same question at all because I'm not advocating burning books. History is still preserved if some statues are taken down. the statues tell you nothing about history, they're just there.

People HAS to learn about this, in one way or the other

Good thing we have books. And the internet, I hear that's a marvelous thing.

I already hear about schools ruining kids by trying to shelter them from the past that our countries have had.

You mean like how the southern states are trying to rewrite history?

[Livnthedream]

You mean like how the southern states are trying to rewrite history?

Not just the Southern ones. Or is the flat out hate for Jefferson a mere figment of my imagination?

[Lochton]

Put them in a museum, problem solved. Why do you need to see them all the time to remember your past?

Let's build monuments to the 19 9/11 hijackers!

Fuck it, this is going to sting on my history classes.


You already have.


These hijackers had their goal, and they were sadly successful, and you added a memorial of all the losses. It may be in good faith but I have my doubts that any ally of the hijackers has the same idea as the ones who committed to make that memorial. Beautiful piece of work though, haven't had a chance to see the memorial in person but followed closely on TV.


I know, disgusting answer, but also part of our lives on this planet.

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It's not the same question at all because I'm not advocating burning books. History is still preserved if some statues are taken down. the statues tell you nothing about history, they're just there.

Right, so by this statement, we're to take down and store these statues in a museum, together with the abstract ones. Got it. I wasn't advocating book burnings, I was advocating not to shelter yourself from your past. And yes, these statues as it seems from you, don't tell anything about history - then where's the problem?

Good thing we have books. And the internet, I hear that's a marvelous thing.

Yes, all are brilliant works. Bravo.

You mean like how the southern states are trying to rewrite history?

With the latest news, you mean, how almost all your states are trying to rewrite something in fear of someone, or something?