Heroes are good - let's make statues of them

[Kaleredar]

Not just the Southern ones. Or is the flat out hate for Jefferson a mere figment of my imagination?

I don't know if you mean Thomas Jefferson, a founding father, or Jefferson Davis, the treasonous president of a hostile enemy nation.

[Lochton]

I don't know if you mean Thomas Jefferson, a founding father, or Jefferson Davis, the treasonous president of a hostile enemy nation.

Both did bad, the change was, once altered the past.

[zorkuus]

And yes, these statues as it seems from you, don't tell anything about history - then where's the problem?

Holy hell. Because they were built to honor a disgraceful past (note once again: not to remember it as a sidenote of history, but to HONOR it) - and they don't tell that. They don't tell the context, that's the problem.

[Livnthedream]

I don't know if you mean Thomas Jefferson, a founding father, or Jefferson Davis, the treasonous president of a hostile enemy nation.

Thomas. Derp.

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Holy hell. Because they were built to honor a disgraceful past - and they don't tell that. They don't tell the context, that's the problem.

Disgraceful based on today's metric. Well done not watching the video. Or at least not grasping it's point.

[Mizix]

Statues should be preserved, they have not only historical value, but also value as art. Removing a statue should be done via public vote imo, and if the majority wants to remove it, put it in a museum instead of destroying it.

Agreed. I can understand and empathize with people that destroy symbols of oppression THEY have lived under but cannot fathom the mob-like mentality of destroying a statue or a cultural symbol because it is no longer "cool". That would be like tearing down the Colosseum because slaves died in there for the amusement of the Romans... Got a statue of a racist? Good, it means the place has a history with racism and the statue is there to remind people of that, leave it there for collective memory or move it to a museum where visitors can see it and get historical facts about the era instead of destroying it because it bothers your fragile ego.

[Lochton]

Statues should be preserved, they have not only historical value, but also value as art. Removing a statue should be done via public vote imo, and if the majority wants to remove it, put it in a museum instead of destroying it.

Missed this one! A wise comment!

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Disgraceful based on today's metric. Well done not watching the video. Or at least not grasping it's point.

This is what part of trying to say.

[zorkuus]

Disgraceful based on today's metric. Well done not watching the video. Or at least not grasping it's point.

They were built "today", practically. In recent times relatively speaking. These are not ancient things whose meaning is lost to history, we know it all too well.

History is not always sweet and the fact you have a statue of someone somewhere doesn't mean you think that everything said person had done is perfect. Would you ask Italians to demolish all ancient roman heritage sites across the country because the Roman Empire was a warmongering machine which destroyed many countries and took hundreds of thousands of lives?

They were not built by modern people to specifically honor the horrible deeds of their ancestors. That is exactly the opposite in this case. Do you understand the difference?

[Wyrt]

Disgraceful based on today's metric. Well done not watching the video. Or at least not grasping it's point.

No, even by that's day's metric. Slavery had been abolished for over a hundred years(or more) in a good number of European nations. Most of South America abolished slavery decades before. Even half the US had abolished slavery(which caused the war in the first place).

Slavery wasn't acceptable in a large portion of the world by the time the Civil War happened. You can't argue by that days standards because that day's standard was that slavery should be outlawed.

[Lochton]

You totaly missed the point. Building a monument to 9/11 hijackers is bullshit, because there isn't and has never been a government whose official policy would be to sympathise with them or glorify them.

There has on the other hand been 40 years of rule of a puppet Soviet government in Czechoslovakia, and these memorials all over the place testify that.

Most of these monuments are integrated within generic WW2 memorials which list the dead from the village or town where they are located, etc.

History is not always sweet and the fact you have a statue of someone somewhere doesn't mean you think that everything said person had done is perfect. Would you ask Italians to demolish all ancient roman heritage sites across the country because the Roman Empire was a warmongering machine which destroyed many countries and took hundreds of thousands of lives?

I am not religious but, amen!

[tankbug]

That's just empty jargon in the wind. in the same vein as "it's tradition because it's traditon". The context is important. Like I said nothing prevents you from learning history from other sources, it doesn't need to be out in public. Esp. if the content is "controversial".

A new statue depicting an historical event or person has little historical value in itself. You can admire the art and craftsmanship.
An old statue has historical value in itself, no matter what it's representing/portraying.

[zorkuus]

A new statue depicting an historical event or person has little historical value in itself. You can admire the art and craftsmanship.
An old statue has historical value in itself, no matter what it's representing/portraying.

These are not that old. They were not built during or just after the fact. Infact some confederate leaders didn't want such monuments built.

[Deleted]

People getting triggered over a statue is a new low imo.

I bet we haven't even reached the bottom yet guys, keep it up

[zorkuus]

People getting triggered over a statue is a new low imo.

I bet we haven't even reached the bottom yet guys, keep it up

Cool, so you'll have no problem with me coming to your house, raping your wife and erecting (no pun intended) a statue outside to commoderate the event?

Did we reach it?

[Lochton]

Cool, so you'll have no problem with me coming to your house, raping your wife and erecting (no pun intended) a statue outside to commoderate the event?

Did we reach it?

That would be the bottom and wouldn't be the topic.

[zorkuus]

That would be the bottom and wouldn't be the topic.

Didn't stop you from making stupid off-topic analogies earlier.

[Lochton]

Didn't stop you from making stupid off-topic analogies earlier.

Which one?

[zorkuus]

Which one?

Yeah, bloody hell. Let's get rid of the Statue of Liberty while we're at it, that old lady has turned a bit patina anyways.

Is this a good one? I can't be bothered to read your whole post history in this thread.

[Lochton]

Is this a good one? I can't be bothered to read your whole post history in this thread.

Actually, that was on topic, that one.

[zorkuus]

Actually, that was on topic, that one.

That's a nope. The statue of liberty was not built to honor something horrible. Why is this so hard?

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

[Lochton]

That's a nope. The statue of liberty was not built to honor something horrible. Why is this so hard?

Because you have a hard time seeing the section that is of history.

But they're not burning libraries. That is where history is still preserved, why do you need a statue? Hypotheticals do not a good argument make.

I made my comment because just like a statue is made of something horrible, another is made with something better - all part of history. We can't just keep the good things, like another user explained earlier.

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I am sorry that you wish, and believe that we can just push all the bad in the back room, and keep the good on the front shelf.

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That's a nope. The statue of liberty was not built to honor something horrible. Why is this so hard?

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

Okay, I am sorry.

One is an indicator of a historical event, the other is an indicator of a historical person.