Heroes are good - let's make statues of them

[zorkuus]

Because you have a hard time seeing the section that is of history.

The problem with your argument is that it's just "it's history because it's history". It's just empty words, without deeper meaning. it's meant to sound nice but that's all. It's an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy. You are failing to grasp the context within the issue.

Okay, I am sorry.

One is an indicator of a historical event, the other is an indicator of a historical person.

Aaand we're done.

[Deleted]

Why do you need to shelter yourself from the past? Same question. People HAS to learn about this, in one way or the other. I already hear about schools ruining kids by trying to shelter them from the past that our countries have had.

Because it's one of the fundamental roles of museums, to teach people about their history.

Public statues are nothing but celebratory.

[Lochton]

Because it's one of the fundamental roles of museums, to teach people about their history.

Public statues are nothing but celebratory.

Wouldn't state celebratory, a monument doesn't have to be about celebrating but just generally remembrance of events and people.

And yes, museums and libraries, schools and on so, is about teaching people about their history. But as I point out, you shouldn't shelter yourself, you can't just push away the fact that one's country had a bad past. You may as well just remove all statues then. Tourism will have a blast.

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The problem with your argument is that it's just "it's history because it's history". It's just empty words, without deeper meaning. it's meant to sound nice but that's all. It's an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy. You are failing to grasp the context within the issue.

Aaand we're done.

What is the issue then? You have a bad past you aren't proud of, and wish to hide? Or that you can't hide all of the bad?

My stance are about this thread, and how we can't just push away the bad that has happened in the past, as it is part of our history. Just because it is part of our history doesn't mean it is us now.

[Kaleredar]

Thomas. Derp.

And he's catching flak for... what, exactly? Owning slaves?

The difference between someone like Jefferson owning Slaves is that we take Jefferson to represent the United States, which has since moved past slavery and pushed those ideas into the past (Though Jefferson held a very conflicted view of slavery, stating "Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism" and indeed vouched for a slow end to slavery, which was rejected by congress. Though that doesn't change the fact that he still owned slaves) and have indeed condemned said ideas since slavery's passing. Meaning we can say things like "we support Jefferson's ideas of freedom from tyranny and religious freedoms, and have long since moved past any antiquated ideas of slavery he might have supported"

The confederacy, first and foremost, stood for preserving slavery and seceded from the United States. It never "matured" past meaning anything other than that, because it was routed and destroyed.

Disgraceful based on today's metric. Well done not watching the video. Or at least not grasping it's point.

Well here's the thing


We live in today. Not yesterday. And certainly not 140 years ago.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't state celebratory, a monument doesn't have to be about celebrating but just generally remembrance of events and people.

Except, it is, every since the Romans started to celebrate their own in public forums.

Statues are celebrating monuments.

And yes, museums and libraries, schools and on so, is about teaching people about their history. But as I point out, you shouldn't shelter yourself, you can't just push away the fact that one's country had a bad past. You may as well just remove all statues then. Tourism will have a blast.

Except museums are open to everyone that wants to learn more about history. It's not some history shelter, museums technicians would appreciate if there were more people wanting to go there to learn, they would gladly teach any visitor.

By the way, one of the many reasons for Tourism are museums, not statues. Example, Louvre.

[Fonduset]

A lot of 'Heroes' have some form of controvosy attached to them. Which would mean the Liberals and SJW's would take offence to them and they will then be taken down. Sadly, as i think it is a good idea. Statues of heroes as a morale boost for society. But soft people just want to spoil it for everyone.

[AeneasBK]

Well here's the thing

We live in today. Not yesterday. And certainly not 140 years ago.

Could be wrong but was getting the impression the point was a hundred years from now societies morals may have adapted again and we would have premanently lost these monuments to history if we tore them all down because they dont' align with present day morals.

Not saying I agree with that idea necessarily; but I think that was the point being made.

[Wyrt]

A lot of 'Heroes' have some form of controvosy attached to them. Which would mean the Liberals and SJW's would take offence to them and they will then be taken down. Sadly, as i think it is a good idea. Statues of heroes as a morale boost for society. But soft people just want to spoil it for everyone.

These men aren't heroes. They betrayed their country and fought a war to preserve slavery.

[Kaleredar]

Could be wrong but was getting the impression the point was a hundred years from now societies morals may have adapted again and we would have premanently lost these monuments to history if we tore them all down because they dont' align with present day morals.

Not saying I agree with that idea necessarily; but I think that was the point being made.

...except they're being put in museums.

Number of Egyptian statues intact because they were moved into museums: Many

Number of Egyptian statues intact because they were allowed to sit out in the desert: fewer.


And besides, that's like saying they should have left up Nazi paraphernalia in public places in Germany because "hundreds of years in the future people might not be so uptight about the whole 'genocide' issue."


The whole notion of "well I mean in the future maybe people will have rethought their stance of rejecting 'slavery' and 'treasonous betrayal' issues!" really rings hollow.

At least I hope it does, and continues to do so.

[Belize]

Get statues of Batman.

[Shibito]

These statues were erected in the early to mid 20th century by people who were mad they had to treat black people as actual people.

Mean like the Lenin statue thats so beloved by the left?

[Priestiality]

Mean like the Lenin statue thats so beloved by the left?

You mean the Lenin statue that's privately owned and held in trust until it can be sold?

[Shibito]

You mean the Lenin statue that's privately owned and held in trust until it can be sold?

Still as ugly a statue as any confederate statue that was on private property btw they both represent evil in humanity

[Deleted]

I would love to see many statutes of me.

We need all that material for more Varian statues.

[JohnBrown1917]

Cmon guys , the OP has a GG ava, its not worth your time.

[Deleted]

A statue of Varian Wrynn needs to be built in every country's capital.

[Deleted]

Yeah, just like the other day when the catholic Pope of Polish ancestry went to Auschwitz to celebrate the horrors of holocaust, because clearly, the only purpose of monuments is to celebrate what they depict.

Wrong pope:



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I wonder how, for example, Holocaust memorials fit into this notion.

Memorials and statues are completely different.

[Kathandira]

In the argument about removing statues of confederate leaders. I think we should remove and replace them. Remove the ones of the leaders standing tall, and replace them with statues which show them being ashamed of their behavior. Or show them being the losers of the war, with the winners standing over them, taller, and prouder.

If they MUST be there, then make them less of something to revere, and something to actually remind people exactly why they lost.

Some may see it as a waste of money, but I think it is a worthy expenditure.

[Livnthedream]

Cmon guys , the OP has a GG ava, its not worth your time.

"I can't counter the argument, so I will just throw shade instead! That totally works!"

In the argument about removing statues of confederate leaders. I think we should remove and replace them. Remove the ones of the leaders standing tall, and replace them with statues which show them being ashamed of their behavior. Or show them being the losers of the war, with the winners standing over them, taller, and prouder.

If they MUST be there, then make them less of something to revere, and something to actually remind people exactly why they lost.

Some may see it as a waste of money, but I think it is a worthy expenditure.

So you want more Trump and Trump like figures. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Kathandira]

"I can't counter the argument, so I will just throw shade instead! That totally works!"



So you want more Trump and Trump like figures. Thanks for the confirmation.

Not sure where you got that impression.

My example is, if you want a Robert E Lee statue, have him laying down his weapons at the feet of Lincoln. That is more of a history lesson than a statue of a confederate leader standing tall and proud. This way, history is not removed from visibility.