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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    The tank has all the power in a dungeon, they set the pace as they see fit. If the group doesn't like it they can kick the tank but the tank will just get another instant queue.

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    Well the rogue died so he did need a tank.
    If you are undergeared and you are pulling extra stuff on mythic 0 then you are fucking up, but in this day and age there is far more common to find geared people that don't need tanks anymore in m+0

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    Quote Originally Posted by urieliszcze View Post
    Enjoying your queue times? Good. Keep enjoying them.
    Does it really make you tanklets this angry that ONE single geared dps can make your job worthless in flat mythics nobody cares about?

  2. #582
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    If you are undergeared and you are pulling extra stuff on mythic 0 then you are fucking up, but in this day and age there is far more common to find geared people that don't need tanks anymore in m+0

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    Does it really make you tanklets this angry that ONE single geared dps can make your job worthless in flat mythics nobody cares about?
    Yes, the tone and volume of your response very clearly shows who's angry here, widdle piglet. Keep squealing

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    If you are undergeared and you are pulling extra stuff on mythic 0 then you are fucking up, but in this day and age there is far more common to find geared people that don't need tanks anymore in m+0
    You act like this is a new problem that has sprung up suddenly that everyone is way over geared for the content.... This has been an issue as far back as I can remember and people aren't getting any smarter or any less cocky.

    Yes, all it takes is "one single geared dps" (doesn't even create a valid adjective / noun structure, but whatever) to over pull, not be able to control the mobs (because, hey, HE'S NOT A TANK AND DOESN'T GENERATE AGRO LIKE ONE), and for those mobs to kill everyone else, but again, hey, he's a rogue and can vanish, so screw the rest of the group, AmIRight?

    Then .... Suddenly people grow older than 12, and POSSIBLY start respecting the wishes and time of people around them...
    /sig

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by urieliszcze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    The tank is a saint without flaw.
    Enjoying your queue times? Good. Keep enjoying them.
    Does it really make you tanklets this angry that ONE single geared dps can make your job worthless in flat mythics nobody cares about?
    We interpreted this so differently rofl, had to comment. I though Golden Yak was a bit sarcastic and that urieliszcze meant that Golden Yak should keep tanking since he/she have short queues so that urieliszcze would have more tanks to shorten his/her queue :P You're probably more right but my interpretation isn't that bad!

    It's strange for me that you find so many ninja pullers. I've had one here and there over the expansion, mostly some aoe hitting the wrong thing or such. If it's not progress, keep ninja pulling, makes it more interesting as tank! I've full control of what I pull so, while going fast, the instance won't really challenge me that much. Therefore any ninja pulling adds flavour and engages me more while providing something to talk about. You can soft banter someone after a wipe or promote someones action after avoiding a wipe. It's great
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  5. #585
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    The rogue is a worthless piece of shit who should be kicked immediately after that stunt.

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    A few months ago I was leveling a DK alt through Outland and ended up farming Hellfire dungeons with two nice guys, a healer and a dps.

    And every time -- literally every single time -- one of the dps would proceed to start chain ninja pulling everything from the second they entered the instance. We just let them die and then kicked them. We did that maybe half a dozen times. It was very satisfying to be able to for once get rid of those arrogant pieces of shit and watch their tantrums while they were being zoned out.
    Are you for real? You are getting upset when they while your lvling? DaFuQ
    How is it annyoing when the mobs just simply die after 3 secs?
    Lulz


    And sure the rouge was a douche. im just simply ask them to pull more, if they dont....well i dont really need to use my dps CDS either so am just standing there hitting them with my auto attacks.

    Being manchilds its great,

  6. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by McTroll View Post
    Situation: RDF, tank going at his pace, rogue decides it's not fast enough, goes pulling packs, tank gives no f*cks, rogue dies, rogue throws tantrum, tank says "You pull, you tank".


    Question: Who's in the right?
    As long as the tank is maintaining a reasonable pace, it is entirely the rogue who is in the wrong. Rogue deserved to die, and I hope the healer didn't bother to throw the rogue any heals either.

    If the tank was taking long pauses between pulls for no reason, then he takes some of the blame for being uncooperative.

    Sadly, this reminds me of why I miss the old expansions when dungeons meant something instead of being the joke that they've been for the past few expansions. Too many idiots in the game who feel entitled to a 5-10 minutes race for gear / daily completion.

  7. #587
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Except a DPS who impatiently pulls everything then dies. :/
    Not even close.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by urieliszcze View Post
    Yes, the tone and volume of your response very clearly shows who's angry here, widdle piglet. Keep squealing
    I'm actually surprised I've never met any of you brainlets in-game, tanks have always been happy in my groups with us dps pulling half the dungeon ahead of him and finishing world tours/week quest in less than 5 min per dungeon.

    Let me guess, you're one of those posters that doesn't even play the game currently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelxin View Post
    You act like this is a new problem that has sprung up suddenly that everyone is way over geared for the content.... This has been an issue as far back as I can remember and people aren't getting any smarter or any less cocky.

    Yes, all it takes is "one single geared dps" (doesn't even create a valid adjective / noun structure, but whatever) to over pull, not be able to control the mobs (because, hey, HE'S NOT A TANK AND DOESN'T GENERATE AGRO LIKE ONE), and for those mobs to kill everyone else, but again, hey, he's a rogue and can vanish, so screw the rest of the group, AmIRight?

    Then .... Suddenly people grow older than 12, and POSSIBLY start respecting the wishes and time of people around them...
    I'm guessing here you have never owned a geared dps?
    You don't need to generate aggro when you can kill a pack of mobs in 1 death from above, or kill a boss in less than 30 seconds on your own, rogues can literally burst over 4mil dps currently with 920 gear.

    >respecting the wished and time of people around them
    I sure as hell respect their time, I flask and pot even on the easiest content, I want to be done with the grind ASAP, if they want to admire the scenery, that's what normal is for, I'm there to steamroll the dungeon with or without them.

    I'm really starting to think half of this forum has not even reached level 110 yet, its really something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Are you for real? You are getting upset when they while your lvling? DaFuQ
    How is it annyoing when the mobs just simply die after 3 secs?
    Lulz
    You're speaking to people that think they're god's gift to the world because they decided to spec tank and save us all from the dangers of leveling dungeons and mythic+0.
    Even tho any half competent dps in lfr gear and some heroic from cache/weekly quest can stomp that content on its own and hes basically there to hopefully find another player like him that can even further boost clear times on outdated content because he doesn't want to be there all day and values his time on shit hes done 20 times before.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Not even close.
    And this right here, folks, is everything that's currently wrong with the groupfinding community. Where going slow is worse than some a-hole DPS pulling everything and getting killed.

    /thread

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And this right here, folks, is everything that's currently wrong with the groupfinding community. Where going slow is worse than some a-hole DPS pulling everything and getting killed.

    /thread
    Maybe he needs to git gud, a good DPS won't die to dungeon content unless its keys, and trust me no DPS would ever pull everything on purpose in key mythics.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    Maybe he needs to git gud, a good DPS won't die to dungeon content unless its keys, and trust me no DPS would ever pull everything on purpose in key mythics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    I'm actually surprised I've never met any of you brainlets in-game, tanks have always been happy in my groups with us dps pulling half the dungeon ahead of him and finishing world tours/week quest in less than 5 min per dungeon.
    Problem here is that the situation described wasn't about a competent/overgeared DPS who can pull stuff and handle it. It was about some schmuck rogue who pulled stuff then died. I mean, how would YOU treat a fellow DPS who ran off to pull some stuff and failed as badly as the rogue in question?

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Problem here is that the situation described wasn't about a competent/overgeared DPS who can pull stuff and handle it. It was about some schmuck rogue who pulled stuff then died. I mean, how would YOU treat a fellow DPS who ran off to pull some stuff and failed as badly as the rogue in question?
    Then that's his fault for taking more than he could handle, but people are not discussing this anymore for like 20 pages, they are discussing ANY dps.

  13. #593
    Deleted
    I prefer the more catchy "You spank it, you tank it".
    The rogue had the tools to redirect aggro, so there's no good reason why he should've died, even if the tank was afk.

    Imo if a dps pulls he should be ready to solo. Even more so in a random heroic.
    As much as everyone loves to blast through dungeons without ever stopping there are some things to consider, some of which are not even dependant on the tank:
    Can the lowest geared player survive the cleaves? (having to stop pulling because one group member dies from cleave damage is often more costly time wise)
    Is the group interrupting enough? (mass pulling healing mobs when none of the dps in the group know how to interrupt can make fights longer than just pulling the groups separately. This is especially true on the upper deck of MoS, where even in a heroic with incompetent dps you'd go through the healer groups faster if you just pulled one pack at a time)
    Is the big aoe hit of the tank off cooldown. (Avenger's shield/Keg throw/DnD/Thrash/Thunder Clap/Inferno Strike. Accidents can happen and it's rarely a tank will not do his best to peel mobs off the blind fatty, but if someone pulls on purpose, and it's clearly seen that he did, I wouldn't go out of my way to stop what I was doing. It's always annoying to see someone pull an extra pack which, most of the time, has more HP than the damage done by the player pulling, making their dps contribution to the group a negative.)
    Are there ranged mobs that will be left unattended by aoe hungry dps?
    Are there any stacking or dispellable debuffs that can go out of control if the influx of them is too large?
    Maybe the tank is just inexperienced and doesn't have the confidence to pull a lot? (Some poeple say tanks have huge egos, but to tank you have to have confidence and the more you tank the more confidence you get and confidence inflates ego. It all depends what the proportion of ego/performance the tank has... similar to the hot/crazy graph)

    From a dps point of view if a tank is pulling too slow you either solo or suck it up. If you get called out on ninjapulling in a dungeon there's four options:
    Stop doing it
    Let the tank know that he shouldn't worry about you being an idiot, and don't blame the tank if your stupidity kills you (my pick)
    Misdirect
    Overestimate your ability, die and be an ass about it (the rogue in OPs case)

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Jegger View Post
    I prefer the more catchy "You spank it, you tank it".
    The rogue had the tools to redirect aggro, so there's no good reason why he should've died, even if the tank was afk.

    Imo if a dps pulls he should be ready to solo. Even more so in a random heroic.
    As much as everyone loves to blast through dungeons without ever stopping there are some things to consider, some of which are not even dependant on the tank:
    Can the lowest geared player survive the cleaves? (having to stop pulling because one group member dies from cleave damage is often more costly time wise)
    Is the group interrupting enough? (mass pulling healing mobs when none of the dps in the group know how to interrupt can make fights longer than just pulling the groups separately. This is especially true on the upper deck of MoS, where even in a heroic with incompetent dps you'd go through the healer groups faster if you just pulled one pack at a time)
    Is the big aoe hit of the tank off cooldown. (Avenger's shield/Keg throw/DnD/Thrash/Thunder Clap/Inferno Strike. Accidents can happen and it's rarely a tank will not do his best to peel mobs off the blind fatty, but if someone pulls on purpose, and it's clearly seen that he did, I wouldn't go out of my way to stop what I was doing. It's always annoying to see someone pull an extra pack which, most of the time, has more HP than the damage done by the player pulling, making their dps contribution to the group a negative.)
    Are there ranged mobs that will be left unattended by aoe hungry dps?
    Are there any stacking or dispellable debuffs that can go out of control if the influx of them is too large?
    Maybe the tank is just inexperienced and doesn't have the confidence to pull a lot? (Some poeple say tanks have huge egos, but to tank you have to have confidence and the more you tank the more confidence you get and confidence inflates ego. It all depends what the proportion of ego/performance the tank has... similar to the hot/crazy graph)

    From a dps point of view if a tank is pulling too slow you either solo or suck it up. If you get called out on ninjapulling in a dungeon there's four options:
    Stop doing it
    Let the tank know that he shouldn't worry about you being an idiot, and don't blame the tank if your stupidity kills you (my pick)
    Misdirect
    Overestimate your ability, die and be an ass about it (the rogue in OPs case)
    We're in patch 7.2.5, the average ilvl is over 900 all this information is useless.
    and this is not how high mythics work.

  15. #595
    If the rogue pulled a proper next pack and attempted to bring it to the tank, but the tank just watched as he died because of some stupid "you pull, you tank" mentality, the tank was in the wrong. If the pack the rogue pulled was bad and would slow the group down (e.g. tank went one way rogue ran off another), the tank still should have picked it up, but the rogue was more in the wrong. Stomping your feet and letting someone die for being stupid is certainly not the "adult choice", as a few people have said (Note: I do acknowledge that sometimes it is better to let them die if they pulled a very bad pack and have not brought it close to the group to aggro onto someone else).

    In the end, it is the tank's job to hold aggro on mobs, not to pull them. Regardless of who gets the first hit, grabbing aggro is as simple as clicking one thrash in Legion. Personally, when I tank, I welcome people pulling for me - as long as I don't end up overwhelmed (in terms of damage), the mobs get brought somewhat near me, and the pulled pack was logical to pull next, anyway.

    Also, obligatory: The rogue should have just tricksed the tank.

  16. #596
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    We're in patch 7.2.5, the average ilvl is over 900 all this information is useless.
    and this is not how high mythics work.
    Except you still get people under 2m health sometimes and resurrecting them after every pack can take forever. Are you assuming there haven't been any new players since the start of the expansion?
    And some people are just awful. There are way too many "dps" who can't even outdps the tanks. If the bad players suddenly stopped queueing, the dps queue would be the shortest queue...

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Jegger View Post
    Except you still get people under 2m health sometimes and resurrecting them after every pack can take forever. Are you assuming there haven't been any new players since the start of the expansion?
    And some people are just awful. There are way too many "dps" who can't even outdps the tanks. If the bad players suddenly stopped queueing, the dps queue would be the shortest queue...
    I mean, 2m hp is already a lot for heroics, if you took someone that undergeared for mythics using the LFG tool, that's on you.
    If you joined a mythic group with everyone that undergeared, you can always leave/or stay if there is at least one geared player, at the end of the day most people are too geared for this content just by buying full dauntless gear 1 minute into 110 and if they decided to skip on free gear for no reason you're asking for trouble by staying.

  18. #598
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy090909 View Post
    If the rogue pulled a proper next pack and attempted to bring it to the tank, but the tank just watched as he died because of some stupid "you pull, you tank" mentality, the tank was in the wrong. If the pack the rogue pulled was bad and would slow the group down (e.g. tank went one way rogue ran off another), the tank still should have picked it up, but the rogue was more in the wrong. Stomping your feet and letting someone die for being stupid is certainly not the "adult choice", as a few people have said (Note: I do acknowledge that sometimes it is better to let them die if they pulled a very bad pack and have not brought it close to the group to aggro onto someone else).

    In the end, it is the tank's job to hold aggro on mobs, not to pull them. Regardless of who gets the first hit, grabbing aggro is as simple as clicking one thrash in Legion. Personally, when I tank, I welcome people pulling for me - as long as I don't end up overwhelmed (in terms of damage), the mobs get brought somewhat near me, and the pulled pack was logical to pull next, anyway.

    Also, obligatory: The rogue should have just tricksed the tank.
    I usually pick up trash if DPS don't get too obnoxious with speed-pulling, but sometimes I just don't have an aoe skill available due to internal CDs. This is why I prefer to pull. If a DPS or healer is bored and wants me to pull faster, they can whisper me and I will speed up. Besides that, I usually maintain a steady pace. I don't like to overpull, but I don't idle either without some severe reason. Just hate when some phone call comes in...

  19. #599
    Deleted
    The tank is fully right as long as he doesn't fuck the 3 other member up.

    Tanking is a role that consist in more than just holding aggro, as much as Dps is more than just doing damage.
    Slower tanks do not pull slowly on purpose. And yes sometime a tank is not that important in a dungeon and fast dps could cover it, or the tank is being too much cautious when the healer could handle way tougher situation.

    However if that is the case, a simple sentence like : "We have a solid group, you can take more trahs" could resolve the situation without some guy going full solo. Like it or not, but wow is a social game, if you decide to not do the minimum social interaction, don't expect people to go your way.

    and no "gogogo" is not the mimimum social interaction, that's counter productive.
    If you want a change in pace, ask for it, don't choose for the others.

  20. #600
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigmatar View Post
    I mean, 2m hp is already a lot for heroics, if you took someone that undergeared for mythics using the LFG tool, that's on you.
    If you joined a mythic group with everyone that undergeared, you can always leave/or stay if there is at least one geared player, at the end of the day most people are too geared for this content just by buying full dauntless gear 1 minute into 110 and if they decided to skip on free gear for no reason you're asking for trouble by staying.
    The topic is RDF, not LFG though. You don't get to pick what you get in RDF.
    LFG lets you set the ilvl minimum so the whole discussion stops making sense.
    Caryying someone new or undergeared is not a problem as long as they don't consider themselves god's gift to the dps role and play smart.
    Even in LFG if I choose not to set an ilvl limit and invite someone undergeared I won't put them in a situation where they're unable to survive assuming they aren't sleeping in fire. That might lead to pulling two groups instead of four and that's fine.
    And just in case you just came to argue without reading what the original topic was about, the player in question clearly was either unable to handle what he pulled either due to his lack of gear or competence. I just explained the reasons why pulling might not go as fast as some dps would like and gave the available options to handle the situation.
    If the tank was inexperienced and the rogue was being a moron the "you spank it, you tank it" rule applies.

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