"Gogogo!!!", or "You pull, you tank"

[freddy090909]

I usually pick up trash if DPS don't get too obnoxious with speed-pulling, but sometimes I just don't have an aoe skill available due to internal CDs. This is why I prefer to pull. If a DPS or healer is bored and wants me to pull faster, they can whisper me and I will speed up. Besides that, I usually maintain a steady pace. I don't like to overpull, but I don't idle either without some severe reason. Just hate when some phone call comes in...

The big difference there is that the rogue would have died because of you not being able to pull off of him, not because you maliciously decided to let him die. And, that death would have been completely on him. I'm sure that you would have attempted to collect threat as soon as you were able.

[Klingers]

The "you pull, you tank" mentally is out of touch and just retarded thinking.

It's the tanks JOB to tank shit REGARDLESS of how it was aggroed. That kind of mindset is unacceptable in LFD and LFR imo.

He's tanking the rogue's stupidity by popping "Object Lesson". Very useful ability.

[prwraith]

I guarantee everyone has been in one of those groups with that slow ass tank and just said fuck me this is awful somebody fix this. Queue the rest of the group pulling.

There is nothing worse than a tank that takes forever to get from A-B. Roll a different class in a different game.

[Deleted]

I'm actually surprised I've never met any of you brainlets in-game,

Awww, hit a wee nerve have I? Here, a lollipop just for you . <3

I do meet widdle piglets like you quite often though. The scenario is fairly fixed and dependable, with at least some entertaining squealing being guaranteed:

• widdle piglet charges boldly ahead and pulls a pack
• impressed with the widdle piglet's boldness, I let him get on with it and go to pull the next pack, can't waste any time given the death knight's mobility y'know
• the widdle piglet, almost always a hunter or a rogue, dies, because either he forgot his threat redirection tools or I wasn't in generous mood and applied the Neural Silencer

That's where variation comes in: some widdle piglets start squealing almost as loudly as you do in this thread. These get kicked. Some die a couple times and learn better. And so on. It's always good fun.
I don't remember when was the last time the piglet proved to be smart and nasty by dropping threat so that NS doesn't mean that much.

Sometimes I get a bit curious about how it is to be the widdle bold piglet. Get a dps and do some impatient pulling. I guess I must be insufficiently porcine for that since I haven't yet died as a result, the worst ever being the tank starting to wait a few seconds before pulling next pack in hopes I overreach and kill myself. They end up as disappointed as you.

[Senea]

I was doing Stockades on my alt last night, came across this extremely toxic tank. If anyone pulled any additional mobs, he would just sit down and kick off at everyone. I mean I get that tanks should 'tank' but accidental pulls or the tank going afk shouldn't mean that everyone else should wait for said tank to throw his toys out the pram and finish flapping his gums before carrying on. Especially at that level.

Honestly I've not seen anything so petty in a long time, it got to a point where he refused to pull Hogger at the end just and sat down again, so we kicked him and got another. His loss I guess!

[Nigmatar]

Awww, hit a wee nerve have I? Here, a lollipop just for you . <3

I do meet widdle piglets like you quite often though. The scenario is fairly fixed and dependable, with at least some entertaining squealing being guaranteed:

• widdle piglet charges boldly ahead and pulls a pack
• impressed with the widdle piglet's boldness, I let him get on with it and go to pull the next pack, can't waste any time given the death knight's mobility y'know
• the widdle piglet, almost always a hunter or a rogue, dies, because either he forgot his threat redirection tools or I wasn't in generous mood and applied the Neural Silencer

That's where variation comes in: some widdle piglets start squealing almost as loudly as you do in this thread. These get kicked. Some die a couple times and learn better. And so on. It's always good fun.
I don't remember when was the last time the piglet proved to be smart and nasty by dropping threat so that NS doesn't mean that much.

Sometimes I get a bit curious about how it is to be the widdle bold piglet. Get a dps and do some impatient pulling. I guess I must be insufficiently porcine for that since I haven't yet died as a result, the worst ever being the tank starting to wait a few seconds before pulling next pack in hopes I overreach and kill myself. They end up as disappointed as you.

Do you think talking like a dummy makes you funny or is that a britbong thing?
I mean who's more angry here, you typed all that useless post for nothing, literally the definition of a tank on a ego trip in a world where he is not needed in LFG.

[Ishayu]

I just cannot understand the mentality of tanks who deliberately let their group members die because of pulling just because they can.

If you don't have aggro yet, and don't think you can take them, then it might be reasonable, since the DPS can be ressed afterwards and told to stop it.

If you do have aggro, then the mobs are just gonna come for you afterwards. Now you're a group member down and more likely to die or be set back, and the only reason why you're in this state is because you decided that it was vitally important for you to teach those impotent whelps a lesson. You might as well be hitting yourself. Why?

Regarding pull rates, I think that's a gray area. Yes, some tanks are supremely slow, and yes, some DPS are supremely jumpy. It's up to players within a group that's just met to find the right pull rate together. This usually doesn't take long UNLESS either the tank or the DPS goes down the road of saying "FOLLOW MY COMMAND OR DIE!!" and starts calling everyone names and letting them die on purpose.

In other words, whichever person refuses to work together with his group is the bad player. It isn't always the DPS.

[Thundering]

You pull you tank ancient group rule that is to be followed!

[Saiteck]

Everyone has their roles in the dungeon, if the rogue keeps on pulling mobs, let him die. The rogue's job is NOT to pull additional mobs but to kill the ones that the tank pulls. I would let the rogue die too if he keeps going like that. Of course if the speed of the tank was super slow I can understand the rogue but still, it's not his job and if he is unhappy with the tank he is free to leave and join another dungeon group.

[the]

If you're struggling to keep threat, you're doing something very wrong and should probably fix that instead of complaining about DPS pulling things.

If it's sets of caster mobs, the tank can only be in one place. I expect if the dps is pulling extra mobs, they are not bothering to interrupt so that the casters can go to the tank.

[Thagrynor]

I usually tank pugs and stuff. I tend to pull like I have a death wish. If someone still is impatient and pulling ahead, I will pick up what I can, but if it kills the person who pulled dies, I will laugh at them and not slow down so they can be rezzed. They can run their ass back. After it happening a couple times, they tend to learn. Granted, I rarely have this issue as, as I mentioned, I pull like I have a death wish and just keep pulling until my healer tells me to slow down, so impatience is rarely an issue.

[Deleted]

It's strange for me that you find so many ninja pullers.

Mobs don't hit hard enough to put idiots in their place. Back in TBC you needed a defense capped tank for regular heroics, and the trash mobs could one-shoot a dps who was stupid enough to overaggro, attack the wrong target or break cc.

I'm not saying we should go back to those days, but I wish there would be a punishment for being cocky or stupid. Other than the /kick tool, that is. Like a triple repair bill if you die to mobs that you aggroed before the tank.

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However if that is the case, a simple sentence like : "We have a solid group, you can take more trahs" could resolve the situation without some guy going full solo. Like it or not, but wow is a social game, if you decide to not do the minimum social interaction, don't expect people to go your way.

If I get such suggestions while tanking, I ask the healer's opinion. Because that's the only one that matters. If s/he thinks s/he can handle some stress, so be it. Depends a bit on the game and the type of pulls. In a game like Swtor, where 90% of enemies are ranged and 99% of the players lack the understanding of how line of sight works (or how to use their pulls/knockbacks etc. to aid the tank at gathering the mobs), I only pull one group at a time.

[Nigmatar]

I ask the healer's opinion. Because that's the only one that matters.

"Lets ignore the opinions of the people directly responsible for literally killing everything"
You are clearly a very good player my dude.

[Katchii]

Do you think talking like a dummy makes you funny or is that a britbong thing?
I mean who's more angry here, you typed all that useless post for nothing, literally the definition of a tank on a ego trip in a world where he is not needed in LFG.

Needed or not it's the tanks job to tank and the DPS job to DPS. If you're impatient..talk it out, don't just start doing the tanks job. It's called communication. You can take 10 seconds to type, "you can pull more/ faster, we can handle it" If you die as a result of you pulling because you're not overgeared, that's on you.

If you don't die because you're overgeared and can handle it, that's a whole other story where this whole "you pull, it, you tank it" works out because you pulled it off.

It's not an ego trip to expect the tank to tank and lead the group through the dungeon. That's been the main role of a tank in MMO's since MMOs were invented.

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"Lets ignore the opinions of the people directly responsible for literally killing everything"
You are clearly a very good player my dude.

While the DPS play a huge role in the dungeon, they're not the one keeping everyone alive. If the healer isn't geared or skilled enough to keep the group alive on big pulls, I don't really care how much DPS you can do, the pulls will be smaller to ensure no one dies. In that context, the healer really is the one that matters.

[Nigmatar]

While the DPS play a huge role in the dungeon, they're not the one keeping everyone alive. If the healer isn't geared or skilled enough to keep the group alive on big pulls, I don't really care how much DPS you can do, the pulls will be smaller to ensure no one dies. In that context, the healer really is the one that matters.

I disagree, good dps can be the difference between a wipe or a kill, this becomes more present on the harder the content becomes, better dps means less healing and tanking needed.
I know this discussion is not about high mythics, but in that content dps literally translates to not dying, many packs are just impossible to stay alive after the CDs run out.
Everyone is equally important in high mytbics, even when there are people in this very forum that think of DPS as dispensable sheep.

If we're talking lfr heroics or flat mythics DPS is the deciding factor between fast or slow clear is on the DPS hands. and since speed is all people care about when doing this grindy content for the sake of weekly quest or legendary farming, I would score DPS way above anybody else, healers are basically not needed in this content, 1 tank 4dps or 5 dps is by far the best group layout for speed clearing farm.

[Shakari]

I'm actually surprised I've never met any of you brainlets in-game, tanks have always been happy in my groups with us dps pulling half the dungeon ahead of him and finishing world tours/week quest in less than 5 min per dungeon.

Let me guess, you're one of those posters that doesn't even play the game currently?

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I'm guessing here you have never owned a geared dps?
You don't need to generate aggro when you can kill a pack of mobs in 1 death from above, or kill a boss in less than 30 seconds on your own, rogues can literally burst over 4mil dps currently with 920 gear.

>respecting the wished and time of people around them
I sure as hell respect their time, I flask and pot even on the easiest content, I want to be done with the grind ASAP, if they want to admire the scenery, that's what normal is for, I'm there to steamroll the dungeon with or without them.

I'm really starting to think half of this forum has not even reached level 110 yet, its really something.

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You're speaking to people that think they're god's gift to the world because they decided to spec tank and save us all from the dangers of leveling dungeons and mythic+0.
Even tho any half competent dps in lfr gear and some heroic from cache/weekly quest can stomp that content on its own and hes basically there to hopefully find another player like him that can even further boost clear times on outdated content because he doesn't want to be there all day and values his time on shit hes done 20 times before.

I think that's your spouting the biggest pile of hypocrisy I've seen in a lot while, your saying that you think tanks think there gods gift ... yet you clearly think than you are just the same.

End of the day m8, the only person you care about is you .... and to put it mildly is extremely selfish, I want to pull everything so screw everyone else.

No matter how you try and justify it, your not in a group alone... wana pull lots of stuff regardless ... go solo the place.

Your a classic case of why pugs have a bad name.

[Katchii]

I disagree, good dps can be the difference between a wipe or a kill, this becomes more present on the harder the content becomes, better dps means less healing and tanking needed.
I know this discussion is not about high mythics, but in that content dps literally translates to not dying, many packs are just impossible to stay alive after the CDs run out.
Everyone is equally important in high mytbics, even when there are people in this very forum that think of DPS as dispensable sheep.

If we're talking lfr heroics or flat mythics DPS is the deciding factor between fast or slow clear is on the DPS hands. and since speed is all people care about when doing this grindy content for the sake of weekly quest or legendary farming, I would score DPS way above anybody else, healers are basically not needed in this content, 1 tank 4dps or 5 dps is by far the best group layout for speed clearing farm.

In content where there's challenge it's really a moot point because all roles are equally important, with some pulling ahead for certain things. Without a tank, you wouldn't survive long enough to kill anything, without a healer same deal, without good DPS things will usually just take forever to die but in more challenging content without DPS to focus the right targets or interrupt the right casts things can go pretty bad real quick.

In content where there is less challenge things start to more heavily favor Tanks and DPS because things die so fast a healer really isn't needed.....but at the same time if it's not that challenging it could also be taken care of by a tank and healer and no DPS though it would be slower. That said said, I've seen some RIDICULOUS stuff with a good group of all roles. Like in Eye of Azshara Heroic, tank just waltzes up to each boss directly with an entire train of trash (no killing trash on the way) and the trash gets taken out with the boss. Would not have been possible without good performance from all roles. Fastest Heroic I've ever done.

Edit: Double post. Interwebs slow, let me click twice.

[Deleted]

Do you think talking like a dummy makes you funny or is that a britbong thing?
I mean who's more angry here, you typed all that useless post for nothing, literally the definition of a tank on a ego trip in a world where he is not needed in LFG.

Keep squealing please. Sometimes, in order to keep myself entertained with nice pink squealing piglets like you, I need to do a tiny little bit more prodding.

[murbaez]

To be fair, if the rogue is pulling stuff and dies, it's completely their fault...like seriously, vanish or tricks of the trade or something lol.

But on to the topic, the pace of the dungeon should be set by the tank, i feel. I see some people argue that the tank is being a jerk by refusing to pick up threat on adds the rogue pulled, but the rogue is in the wrong for pulling ahead of tank. Especially if they didn't ask to pick up the pace. Most of the time, if i tank an instance and someone start pulling ahead, they 100% of the time NEVER ask if i can go faster. I usually take the hint and then over pull and see if they could handle it, as blood dk i havent ever died from it but ive gotten them killed, and then they got the hint.

But if the damage is so good that, as a Blood DK, i cant keep up with the pulls, sometimes i let them pull ahead and i pick up what they get so that we can get it done quicker. There is no harm in trying to do the dungeon quicker. In fact, it's more fun at times, gets your adrenaline[excitement] going sometimes to see if you can manage the insanity.

As dps, i can see why people would want to try and go faster when a tank is too slow. If i can manage the pull myself, i do sometimes pull ahead, but only if i know i can manage it myself [like doing Random daily heroic on my 924 U DK] But if i can't handle it, i won't, and if it's a problem that the tank is way too slow, i always ask to see if they could speed it up. If they won't i offer to tank it for them.

[Nigmatar]

I think that's your spouting the biggest pile of hypocrisy I've seen in a lot while, your saying that you think tanks think there gods gift ... yet you clearly think than you are just the same.

End of the day m8, the only person you care about is you .... and to put it mildly is extremely selfish, I want to pull everything so screw everyone else.

No matter how you try and justify it, your not in a group alone... wana pull lots of stuff regardless ... go solo the place.

Your a classic case of why pugs have a bad name.

Hypocrisy?
I'm just trying to do my best to get a shitty blizzard grind over with, if they won't cooperate then I'll do it alone fine, if they get angry at me for whatever arbitrary reason I don't care, I'm still helping them even if they hate me, I'm not getting anyone killed including myself, I'm not slowing down the group, I'm literally doing the dungeon for them, if that hurts their feefees that's their problem.
If they want to cooperate and keep up, good, nothing better than a lightning fast tank geared for max dps that knows what hes doing.


How can you call me selfish if I'm literally working on getting the job done for all the group?
If it really that important for them to show up on the meters and press their buttons if the result is slower overall clear time and a waste of everyone's time?
I know my limits and I know when the tank is needed and when its not, if they ask me to stop I'll do it (nobody has ever told me to stop)

I guess clearing dungeons fast is a case of being bad nowadays?

Must be a personal issue, I've never seen anyone complain about speed running dungeons as fast as humanly possible, regardless of who is doing what.