BM Hunters! Are we viable now?

[Sabinn]

I am currently playing BM since I have all legendaries for it ( thanks to 7.2 for that , took me 11 legs to get the shoulders) now I really wanna play mm but I dont have of the required gear(CoF and Boots). Still , on Goroth my MM already outdpses my BM but not by much. As soon as I have those 2 items I will be switching ( 29 eli kills and rolls and not a single cof has dropped so far lol).

Since I also dont have the aoe legs for mm , my bm outdpses my mm on aoe fights by quite a lot ( trueshot on a 2:30 minutes cooldown doesnt help either).

[Deleted]

I am in a 4/9 mythic guild and main BM. I'm just as competitive in DPS as our MM hunter and generally can out DPS him. I greatly prefer the movement that BM allows for and find that it's well worth any potential loss of DPS switching specs.

Your MM needs to step up.

[nidosarg]

Your MM needs to step up.

Or maybe he is good (?)

Come on guys stop that thing MM against BM. Both specs are viables, both fun, both do good dps (MM is ahead for now but movility if you dont follow the MM playstile is a really dps loss in terms of movement), and both have pros and cons.

For example i have some people just for to get Oranges Parces do not do ANYTHING in mythic progress to help the raid.

Mechanics > DPS.

[Deleted]

Or maybe he is good (?)

Come on guys stop that thing MM against BM. Both specs are viables, both fun, both do good dps (MM is ahead for now but movility if you dont follow the MM playstile is a really dps loss in terms of movement), and both have pros and cons.

For example i have some people just for to get Oranges Parces do not do ANYTHING in mythic progress to help the raid.

Mechanics > DPS.

A good MM > a good BM. I'm not disputing that the guy might play BM well, but if he's consistently wrecking his fellow MM then the MM isn't performing as he should. It's that simple.

You can deny facts all you want, but they won't change reality. And the "I do blue parses but i do mechanics man!" excuse is rubbish. Parse purple/orange AND do mechanics. Simple.

[sionus]

A good MM > a good BM. I'm not disputing that the guy might play BM well, but if he's consistently wrecking his fellow MM then the MM isn't performing as he should. It's that simple.

You can deny facts all you want, but they won't change reality. And the "I do blue parses but i do mechanics man!" excuse is rubbish. Parse purple/orange AND do mechanics. Simple.

You're clearly incredibly biased and unable to see beyond it. FWIW all of my parses are either purple or orange. To claim that playing BM must mean that you've picked mechanics over DPS is narrow-minded and unhelpful to any conversation.

[Deleted]

Go to warcraftlogs.com. Use the dropdown Menu on the left side and click the Arrow Thingy next to "Tomb of Sargeras".

I think this tells more than a thousand words.
We have our niche (avatar, maiden) because we have no dps loss whilst moving. Other than that we are outclassed by far by pretty much every spec in the game. 4% or whatever we'll get won't help in 7.3 as well as the next tier set. Since our T19 2pc will still be a dps upgrade with t21. They would either have to buff direfrenzy or killcommand / cobrashot in order to not make the direbeasts such a big portion of our overall dmg which then is a huge deal considern t19 2pc buffs them by 50% in bw.

[Sylvaeres]

I came here to see if BM is viable, atleast it was worth the 4 pages of reading.

[Deleted]

You're clearly incredibly biased and unable to see beyond it. FWIW all of my parses are either purple or orange. To claim that playing BM must mean that you've picked mechanics over DPS is narrow-minded and unhelpful to any conversation.

Learn to read. You're completely misrepresenting what I said. How about you link your logs and I'll fucking show you how hard your fellow MM sucks.

Come, put your money where your mouth is. That's the problem with these boards: pushing anecdotal evidence as statistically relevant generalizations. You CAN beat your MM on a consistent basis, which is NO argument for BM over MM in general. It INHERENTLY AND FACTUALLY means your MM is underperforming.

And the other part you failed to comprehend completely and misrepresent intentionally: there is no argument for BM over MM when it comes to mechanics. You can't discredit the factual DPS difference between the 2 specs by claiming that BM makes up for the performance gap in terms of actually doing mechanics, as opposed to MM, which means you're implying that high parsing MM intentionally don't do mechanics at all, also meaning that you could match their performance as BM if you similarly ignored mechanics.

It's rubbish and bullshit. Let's discuss facts instead of fiction and not compare someone parsing at 85+ to someone parsing at the 30th percentile and use that as the guiding principle of how the specs in general compare.

[sionus]

which means you're implying that high parsing MM intentionally don't do mechanics at all, also meaning that you could match their performance as BM if you similarly ignored mechanics.

Learn to read. You're completely misrepresenting what I said.

The irony...

FYI, no where in any of my posts did I state that BM was overall higher DPS than MM. For evidence of the contrary you only need to go to warcraftlogs and look at parses. My point was that players who pick BM can be perfectly viable raiders; and because most players will never perform as well as top tier raiders the differences between the two specs for most mythic runs is going to be much less than what you see in top logs.

[Deleted]

BM was much much stronger in Nighthold.. is it viable in TOS? sure everything is

IF you are pretty good player would u parse higher with 90% of other specs? yep

Outside of the Single target bosses BM is pretty poor and expect with purple/orange parse to be beaten by other class with blue/sometimes green parse on bosses like mistress/harj any boss with some adds.. even on ST BM is middle/lower middle

[3clipse]

For the vast, vast majority of players in ToS, the best spec is the one you can play most optimally while performing the fight mechanics correctly. The difference in damage between MM and BM only becomes a factor if you are both extremely skilled and in a bleeding edge Mythic progression guild.

[Alvito]

A good MM > a good BM. I'm not disputing that the guy might play BM well, but if he's consistently wrecking his fellow MM then the MM isn't performing as he should. It's that simple.

You can deny facts all you want, but they won't change reality. And the "I do blue parses but i do mechanics man!" excuse is rubbish. Parse purple/orange AND do mechanics. Simple.

That is a bit of a strectch. For pretty much every spec if you are hitting orange parse you a skipping mechanics to some degree. You can do it but most dont or they are doing other things to pad numbers. Especially if you are a strong aoe spec. High MMparses on say Mistress are putting way to much damage into adds.

[Sabinn]

That is a bit of a strectch. For pretty much every spec if you are hitting orange parse you a skipping mechanics to some degree. You can do it but most dont or they are doing other things to pad numbers. Especially if you are a strong aoe spec. High MMparses on say Mistress are putting way to much damage into adds.

And to complement to that. High MM parses on Avatar usually ignore the maiden( which is basically why progression usually runs BM here instead of MM).
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Biomega]

That is a bit of a strectch. For pretty much every spec if you are hitting orange parse you a skipping mechanics to some degree.

I wouldn't generalize it like that. While skipping can help you parse higher, that doesn't automatically translate to skipping being required. I've parsed orange many times without cheesing or skipping mechanics.

[Scrya]

blizz just reverted the bm "buffs" on ptr. so i guess we are perfectly viable for everything. (lol)

[Alvito]

I wouldn't generalize it like that. While skipping can help you parse higher, that doesn't automatically translate to skipping being required. I've parsed orange many times without cheesing or skipping mechanics.

Which normally only happens early on when less are parsing or when you greatly out gear content and are doing speed kills. Sure some people are rockstars at mechanics and damage, but with all the people looking to cheese fights just to parse it becomes significantly harder to rank without that being a focus. I garentee you if you look at the parses for many of the top ranking people for every spec they do almost no heavy movement mechanics or take the things closest to them and avoid anything that might drop damage or they over do it against adds. Unholy DKs going bananas on mythic Il'gynoth is a great example, go crazy and kill the team have your raid bring 3 shammies so you can rank.

[Biomega]

No question that ignoring mechanics helps you rank higher, and that to get to the absolute top you need to abuse this to some degree.

However, that is quite different from "in order to rank orange, you HAVE to ignore mechanics".

[SnowTang]

blizz just reverted the bm "buffs" on ptr. so i guess we are perfectly viable for everything. (lol)

What a joke...

[Kayagurcu]

R.I.P. 4% buff there might be something bigger and usefull coming instead of 4% buff.

[Eapoe]

EVERYone is so up in arms about this, and it's a very simple topic. Is BM viable? Yes. Is it the strongest spec for most of ToS compared to MM? No.
Let's not even look at parses, let's look at 1 hypothetical person. This person has BiS for both specs including legendaries, and plays both specs equally well, and follows mechanics. This person is going to do more damage as MM than they will as BM on the majority of fights. It's just the way the game is right now with spec damage, gear scaling, legendaries, and set bonuses.
Does that mean you can't play BM and still do good on all fights? No. MM will still do better for the majority though in the hands of skilled players.