Defending Tolerance Requires Intolerance...

[Sunseeker]

Yes, any reasonably sane person knew this. The only people who don't actually believe this are the intolerant ones.

[Realitytrembles]

Do the "peaceful conservatives" tolerating extreme right wing hate groups, and telling us we should tolerate them, absolve the rest of them from any responsibility and make them still "peaceful conservatives"?

If the "peaceful conservatives" view Biblical law over the law of the Western country they reside in, are they still integrated?

Whataboutism at its finest.

I voted for Bernie, mainly on his economic message. To me, he was all wrong on defense/terrorism. Such are the compromises someone who is fiscally socialist (but hard right on defense/terror) must make.

It is literally going to take a suitcase nuke going off in the US (or something like an ISIS sympathizer machine-gunning a kindergarten class) to get lots of people to stop being afraid to oppose ( with force) a certain philosophy. Mainly because the philosophy in question is mostly followed by people from the third world. A philosophy absolutely opposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment and the Western Liberal Democratic order.

Western guilt complex in full effect.

[Edge-]

How about every muslim who prayed at a mosque where an extremist imam preached his hatred but refused to report him? My god its not rocket science.

Cool, and what about every rally attendee over the weekend that saw people wearing hate groups outfits or sporting their flags, and didn't report them or disassociate themselves from them? What about every every attendee that saw the illegal Tiki-torch lit march on Friday night and decided that they still thought that the rally wasn't going to primarily be for white supremacists?

If that Imam is in the US, he has the same legal right to preach hate that the white supremacists over the weekend have, FYI. I think there should absolutely be a broader national discussion on how hate speech is handled, legally and socially, honestly.

Whataboutism at its finest.

I voted for Bernie, mainly on his economic message. To me, he was all wrong on defense/terrorism. Such are the compromises someone who is fiscally socialist (but hard right on defense/terror) must make.

It is literally going to take a suitcase nuke going off in the US (or something like an ISIS sympathizer machine-gunning a kindergarten class) to get lots of people to stop being afraid to oppose ( with force) a certain philosophy. Mainly because the philosophy in question is mostly followed by people from the third world. A philosophy absolutely opposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment and the Western Liberal Democratic order.

Western guilt complex in full effect.

Naw, this is just run of the mill, vanilla islamophobia. No thanks, bro.

[Realitytrembles]

Naw, this is just run of the mill, vanilla islamophobia. No thanks, bro.

Phobia implies an irrational, baseless fear. It is neither irrational or baseless to fear a philosophy that attacks the roots of Western society (the Enlightenment and liberal democracy). or maybe ...

“Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”


― Andrew Cummins

[DarkTZeratul]

Phobia implies an irrational, baseless fear.

Everyone's irrational hatreds are rational in their own mind.

[downnola]

Shit...... I'd prefer not to have that responsibility.

That's why ideology is appealing to so many. It allows one to evade that responsibility by having others do their thinking for them.

Not that I'm accusing you of doing so. I don't know enough about you to make that claim. Just thinking out-loud, so to speak.

[Brubear]

Extremists? So those extremists are not representative of anything?

Are the FLDS (Tom Green and Warren Jeffs) representative of all Mormons?

Is the Westboro Baptist Church representative of all Christians?

[Mormolyce]

The only paradox here is the idea of tolerating intolerance.

That's not tolerance, that's complicity.

[Luckx]

It depents on situation, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[Antiganon]

Theodarzna was right. Antiganon literally described a lot of Muslim nations; so succinctly that I assumed that was part of the joke.

I'm not talking about other nations.

I'm talking about in the US. I could give a crap what laws people have in a country I will never visit, those are their laws, they agreed to them, and they abide by them or they pay the consequences. Islamic nations (those with Islam as the official state religion) come with the expectation that there will be laws based on the tenets of islam.

The U.S. is not a christian nation, at least not anymore, by any metric that means anything. We are a diverse nation that allows people to peacefully coexist despite radical differences in beliefs. The key point is that your platform needs to allow other people to peacefully exist. Crazt alt-righters like neo-nazis and the KKK do not allow blacks, jews, muslims, etc to peacefully exist. Crazy islamic extremists do not allow the average westerner to peacefully exist.

Not a difficult concept.

[karumayu]

I'm not talking about other nations.

I'm talking about in the US. I could give a crap what laws people have in a country I will never visit, those are their laws, they agreed to them, and they abide by them or they pay the consequences. Islamic nations (those with Islam as the official state religion) come with the expectation that there will be laws based on the tenets of islam.

The U.S. is not a christian nation, at least not anymore, by any metric that means anything. We are a diverse nation that allows people to peacefully coexist despite radical differences in beliefs. The key point is that your platform needs to allow other people to peacefully exist. Crazt alt-righters like neo-nazis and the KKK do not allow blacks, jews, muslims, etc to peacefully exist. Crazy islamic extremists do not allow the average westerner to peacefully exist.

Not a difficult concept.

Sadly by the count of replies defending nazists and equal blaming the people who stood up to nazis, yet at the same time fine with shoving all the people of a religion into the extremist category, it is a uphill battle for any sensible conversation to be had here. They feign ignorance in one circumstance but yet show clarity in another. It's close to impossible to discuss with people who willingly skewer the reality and facts to their hypocrite opinions.

[Lenonis]

"Why won't you tolerate my intolerance" was never EVER been a valid response in my book. It's absurd on it's face.

Similarly this whole discussion about "what is intolerant" is stupid. We all know what intolerance is. The only question is whether or not you agree with it.

[Moshots]

...of Intolerance. Though it sounds paradoxical, the conundrum is a result of improperly used/understood language. The true paradox is the belief that egalitarianism begets authoritarianism. I will try to explain.

A free society requires an equal society. There is no such thing as partial liberty. One cannot be free as deigned in the founding documents of our country, if one is also cordoned from exercises of self-determination and expression. Life, liberty, and the right to pursue one's own happiness are guaranteed in our country, and protected by the full weight of our government. Those rights are a torch which must be preserved for each successive generation. Preservation necessitates a willingness to defend it against those who would tear it down. It must be defended.

History has taught us again and again that passive resistance to active violence will always lose. If Group A advocates for the extermination of Group B (violence), and Group B abstains from all violence including self-defense (passive resistance), Group A will succeed in exterminating Group B.

This is why we have criminal proceedings in the Land of the Free. When a person takes actions that infringe on the rights of another, that person becomes a criminal and forfeits their own rights. Crimes are not protected expression.

In the case of Intolerance (specifically white-supremacist groups like the KKK and neo-Nazis) they advocate for the oppression of Americans. That is literally their founding principle. Rejecting this form of intolerance is not oppression - it is explicitly preventing it to exist. Racist groups like these need people to believe they are the victims of oppression so they can carry out their agenda unhindered. Calling out their lie is a patriotic duty to defend our fellow citizens.

The 1st Amendment guarantees your freedom to speak, but not access to a platform. Refusing to listen to divisive and factually-wrong rhetoric is not censorship. No American is entitled to an audience or a stage. The freedom to ignore and reject racist rhetoric is a protected right.

The thing is you don't have to listen..... There is nothing to do with not listening when you pick up a baseball bat and go find the people preaching and tell they they can't speak while beating them with a baseball bat.... That is Communism.... What is any difference from that and russia/china in USSR times lining up people who spoke out against the government in the street and executing them with violence That is what comes next...

first they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


You can defend silencing KKK members all you want. and I don't think anyone will disagree with you but when Antifa then go's and silences any conservative speak what will be said (Firebombing Berkley to stop Milo from speaking)??? when they then go silence someone else what will be said??? their mission is that only their beliefs can be heard.... They have proven it multiple times by Rioting and causing violence in the face of Conservative speakers on college campuses.

[vondevon]

The thing is you don't have to listen..... There is nothing to do with not listening when you pick up a baseball bat and go find the people preaching and tell they they can't speak while beating them with a baseball bat.... That is Communism.... What is any difference from that and russia/china in USSR times lining up people who spoke out against the government in the street and executing them with violence That is what comes next...

first they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


You can defend silencing KKK members all you want. and I don't think anyone will disagree with you but when Antifa then go's and silences any conservative speak what will be said (Firebombing Berkley to stop Milo from speaking)??? when they then go silence someone else what will be said??? their mission is that only their beliefs can be heard.... They have proven it multiple times by Rioting and causing violence in the face of Conservative speakers on college campuses.

Are you familiar with the term false equivalence? I think you're lacking in a bit of historical context.

But first, I feel I need to point out that the entire reason we are having this discussion now is because of the amount of indiscriminate death on the hands of ethno-nationalists and the ideology that governs their behavior. Before we begin to have a discussion about anything alt-left you simply must agree to the historical fact that ethno-nationalist ideology is responsible for nearly every genocide in the history of the human race. It is never a good thing, there is nothing rational about thinking that way, and like a sickness of the mind - it can inflict entire communities with hatred.

In particular this week we are discussing the recent Unite the Right rally in which heavily-armed and extremely dangerous members of the KKK, neo-Nazis, and other known violent hate-groups gathered for a show of force in Charlottesville. The pretext for the rally was to express anger at the removal of a Confederate monument, but the main draw (as shown by flyers for the rally) was the host of prominent racist community leaders who were set to be there. This gathering was meant to draw together the disparate hateful sectors of the extremist-right to intimidate the community of Charlottesville. That community rallied in protest to say loud and clear that ethno-nationlism was not welcome; and in response an Ohio man who took part in the white-supremacist rally drove his vehicle full-speed through a crowd of people in an effort to kill them for trying to make him leave. He was successful, and 1 woman died and 19 others were injured.

Now...

I just LOVE that you bring up that quote (specifically after equating self-defense in the face of racist violence to Communism). "First they came for the Socialists" i.e. a label given by the Nazi party to anyone who believed in equal treatment of all people. "Then they came for the Trade Unionists" i.e. the label given by the Nazi party to the liberals and globalists who wanted Germany to be part of the world economy/community. "Then they came for the Jews" i.e. when draining the swamp of German political elites didn't solve Germany's problems, the Nazis scapegoated minority communities and the result was immense bloodshed. "Then they came for me and there was no one left" i.e. I failed to speak out against this ideology every time it wasn't directly aimed at my group and now that it finally is, there isn't anyone else to speak out for me. <--- the inevitable slippery-slope decline that comes with ethno-nationalism.

Milo Yiannopoulos is not "any Conservative" and if you don't know that, then you don't know who he is. The 1st Amendment protects you from legal punishment for expressing your opinion (you can't be arrested or otherwise incriminated, you can't have your assets seized, things of that nature). The 1st Amendment does not shield you from public criticism and it doesn't guarantee you a spotlight and megaphone. Local communities are well within their right to boo you out of the room, and to remove you if you try to make trouble. But it doesn't matter in the case of ethno-nationalism because it violates the founding principle of American society that all people are created equal. Fighting to make a certain race the official race of the country is not protected by our constitution and people have a right to defend themselves from you and the violence you advocate.

[Moshots]

Cool poem.
Just some remarks on it:
1. It said 'communists' and not 'socialists'.
2. The goal of this poem is to warn against political apathy, which many moderates are showing.
3. It's anti-Nazi. The writer actually tries to GET you to do something against Nazism.

It's just mindblowing how you can take a poem that basically says "DO SOMETHING ABOUT NAZI'S, DO NOT IGNORE THEM!!!" and think it's a good defense for Nazism.

I'm less concerned with the nazi's being stopped and more with Antifa overreaching on other subjects.

Firebombing Berkley to stop Milo Speaking... Campuses around the US banning conservative speakers after people going full Trigglypuff over them.... All this is ramping up every week.... and the left just keep agging it on.... Something needs to be done to stop it before we Honestly end up with violence cause can people can only be pushed so far. The fact that the left rather Spend hours talking about why the president won't use the word nazi on the same day that a Islamic Extremist takes out 13 people and injures 80 is fucking sickening to show that the left is so much stuck into their identity politics that its puke worthy.

not to mention all this Statue shit getting worse.... Did you see the news about the chicago Lincoln statue that was lit on fire and spraypained Black Lives matter and lincoln was a racist???

Whats next lets tear down the Washington Monument? he owned slaves after all. Give me a break. The left media has done Nothing to condemn any of this and is just fueling the hate for ratings.

[Moshots]

With nazi's spreading propaganda for a second Holocaust, their idol in the White House and them marching on the street and committing terrorist attacks you should probably be more concerned with the Nazi's.


Oh yes, because Milo is totally not part of the alt right.

It will end up in violence.
And all of you guys will try to claim you never had anything to do with that entire movement.

Fourteen people died, get your facts straight.
But hey, you don't even care about those people. You don't bother to follow the news.
For you it's all about bashing the left and Muslims, fuck those victims amiright?
If you cared you would have known.

There are something like 3000 Registered KKK members in the ENTIRE US.......

Think about that for a second... that rally had people from a dozen states and still only had like 1000 Alt Right people in attendance..... People act like the KKK is some force that will take over the world... They couldn't even fill up a baseball park.... They are Nothing and mean nothing... After the left gets over using this to attack trump it will be another 6 months before the words KKK are ever muttered on CNN again because these people are irrelevant in numbers.....


Also you kinda take
I'm less concerned with the nazi's being stopped and more with Antifa overreaching on other subjects.
out of context... I mean I'm fine with you stopping them at whatever costs they are nothing that garbage that ruin actual republican standings... Like They will make Immigration about race when the reality is Illegals shouldn't be banned from this country for the color of their skin they should be stopped for being ILLEGAL.... Alt-right groups fuck up things that we stand on by making it about race.

I'm more concerned with the other dozen rally's to stop freedom of speach than antifa has done in the last 6 months. The ones again Coservative authors/commentators.. Or the left basically blaming the senators that got shot for Being Conservatives is why they got shot....

[Edge-]

After the left gets over using this to attack trump it will be another 6 months

Broheim, it's not just the "left" that's criticizing Trump over this. Not by a longshot.

[Moshots]

Broheim, it's not just the "left" that's criticizing Trump over this. Not by a longshot.

No its 2 senators up for relection next year in Places that are 50-50 Who rather play Identity politics than try to win a real election... Just like a democrat trying to win a election in texas would kiss republicans asses. a republican in a Blue state may fall to the same low.

[Edge-]

No its 2 senators up for relection next year in Places that are 50-50 Who rather play Identity politics than try to win a real election... Just like a democrat trying to win a election in texas would kiss republicans asses. a republican in a Blue state may fall to the same low.

And CEO's from dozens of companies, and foreign leaders, and artists, and more than just those two senators from the GOP side of things, and evangelicals are starting to break ranks, and the Joint Chiefs (army, navy, air force, marines, national guard), and charities...I mean, I could go on, but the list of folks sticking with Trump is far shorter than the list leaving.

White supremacists (for the most part)
Evangelicals (though it seems they're beginning to crack as well)
His supporters claiming that it's everyone else that's wrong

And that's about it.

[Moshots]

It's not the KKK, it includes white supramacy groups and Nazi's.
Just because they make up twenty different names for the exact same kind of retardism doesn't change a thing.

- - - Updated - - -


No, it's nearly all the Republicans.

This is not Democrats vs Republicans.
This is about humanity VS everything a decent human should be against.

Except it is..... Steve Bannon even made it very clear he was happy with the Left wing talking about identity politics all day on CNN Because it just helps Trump or the Next republican in line....

Ever think that trump was just a figure head to Incite the left to these tactics? then he resigns and in 4 years the Republicans win the most one sided election in US history due to all the people the left alienated??? I for one know after the last 6 months that the Democratic party isn't my party.... And I think alot of people who Barly voted for trump or were on the fence now realize that the vicous attacks from the democrats in losing have made who were voting for in 3 years very clear. So for that Trump was the greatest plan ever put forward by republicans.

People are getting mad at trump and at the democrats... The republicans at this point have shielded themselves... If they then kick him out they still have full control but now with all the hate for trump gone but the hate for democrats still there.. Its beyond brilliant.