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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Archon14 View Post
    Fine, then let historians put the statue in a museum, so when people who are interested show up, they will learn about why the statue was created and afterwards removed, or just admire the work that the sculptor has done.
    I guess the only issue is that if people care they'll go and show up and learn.... Else we'll get the same uneducated running around screaming falsehoods and wrong facts about events in the past....

    Wait we get that anyway with the statues out in public.. One second thought. I like your idea. More museums!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    "A group of treasonous states who fought tooth and nail to preserve a system in which human beings could buy and sell each other based on the color of their skin, but I mean we're really just trying to focus on how good of a general he was, here! Next up, we have our statue of Hitler celebrating how good he was at civic planning!"
    You know its really more complex that South = keep slaves and North = get rid of slaves.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post

    You know its really more complex that South = keep slaves and North = get rid of slaves.
    Sure.


    But that was the main reason. If you want to argue that, you should probably take it up with the southern states that listed "slavery" as their reason for seceding. Which was... all of them.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    You know its really more complex that South = keep slaves and North = get rid of slaves.
    Power. What all wars boil down to.

    South wanted independence.

    North was like "ok, but not with our people/land/power"
    South "fuck you its ours!"

    post war - North - "told you it was ours"
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2017-08-19 at 01:51 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #244
    The south should be building monuments to the British Worker after all we made most of your fucking guns!!

    Infact its been estimated had we British not sold war material to the south the civil war mightve ended much sooner!
    Last edited by yetgdhfgh; 2017-08-19 at 01:53 AM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If you want to argue that, you should probably take it up with the southern states that listed "slavery" as their reason for seceding.
    Slavery was argued over long before.

    War only broke out when the southern states wanted independence.
    People fight over that cause the United States wsnt just gonna give up , idk 33% maybe, of its manpower/land/resources.

    Plus all the negative geopolitical implications if independence was granted.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Slavery was argued over long before.

    War only broke out when the southern states wanted independence.
    People fight over that cause the United States wsnt just gonna give up , idk 33% maybe, of its manpower/land/resources.

    Plus all the negative geopolitical implications if independence was granted.
    ...And why did the southern states want to secede?

    They didn't want their economic cash cow (slavery) to be stripped from them. You can't really argue that point; every single state that seceded said as much.

    The Confederacy was created to protect slavery. You can hem and haw about "geopolitical whatsits" as much as you want, but you cannot remove slavery from the reason the confederacy existed. A confederacy that, I remind you, that were effectively traitors to the united states.

    So what possible reason would we have to celebrate traitor-generals who commanded soldiers to kill thousands of American soldiers all while supporting states who were in the war first and foremost to preserve slavery as an institution?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #247
    Let's just remove any and all statues and monuments. Problem solved.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    You can hem and haw about "geopolitical whatsits" as much as you want
    yeah the US would of totally granted independence if the Southern states just gave up slavery......
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    yeah the US would of totally granted independence if the Southern states just gave up slavery......
    If the south gave up slavery they wouldn't have wanted independence.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If the south gave up slavery they wouldn't have wanted independence.
    and WW2 would have been prevented if the French just lost WW1

    God dam arrogant ass Frenchies at it again, causing a whole new world war.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #251
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    and WW2 would have been prevented if the French just lost WW1

    God dam arrogant ass Frenchies at it again, causing a whole new world war.
    That's really not an apt parallel.

    The south started the war by seceding. They seceded because they wanted to preserve slavery.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The south started the war by seceding. They seceded because they wanted to preserve slavery.
    And slavery existed cause the British/Europeans brought it to the Americas

    Which they picked up from Africans. Who learned it when mister Zimbuto from Ethopia ensvaled the first person. Guess its that asshat who should be blamed for an American civil war.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #253
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    And slavery existed cause the British/Europeans brought it to the Americas

    Which they picked up from Africans. Who learned it when mister Zimbuto from Ethopia ensvaled the first person. Guess its that asshat who should be blamed for an American civil war.
    Again, completely false parallels. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make bringing these up.

    Suffice to say, regardless of where slavery came from the confederacy fought to preserve it, well into an age (150 years ago) in which a great deal of the civilized world had since cast it down.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Again, completely false parallels. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make bringing these up.
    That you are just going backwards in time trying to pinpoint the start of a war.

    American civil war is the exact same as any other civil war in human history - New country wants to form by taking existing countries shit

    If slavery was the main reason for an actual war in breaking out, it would have erupted long before.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    That you are just going backwards in time trying to pinpoint the start of a war.

    American civil war is the exact same as any other civil war in human history - New country wants to form by taking existing countries shit

    If slavery was the main reason for an actual war in breaking out, it would have erupted long before.
    Slavery was clearly the main reason because slavery was the main dividing point between the states, Lincoln was an abolitionist and his election triggered the secession of the slave-holding states, Lincoln freed the slaves in the southern states at the first opportunity, both Constitutional amendments that came out of the Civil War revolved around slavery, and the era after the war were filled with racial strife and American apartheid.

  16. #256
    I don't believe in destroying statues. Those that people don't like can be put in museums (preferably after a vote from the locals decided the issue) to preserve it for historical value.

    And yeah, that includes Confederate statues even if my view of that government is so low only scum like ISIS or the Nazis rank lower.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Slavery was clearly the main reason
    then why did war never break out before then

    People were bitching and moaning about slavery before the Civil War. Yet it was never important enough for war.

    What, a independence claim magically make slavery worth fighting a war for all of a sudden.
    And why even fight it at all, if slave states make their own country, boom, no more slavery in United States 'proper'
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2017-08-19 at 03:15 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    That you are just going backwards in time trying to pinpoint the start of a war.

    American civil war is the exact same as any other civil war in human history - New country wants to form by taking existing countries shit

    If slavery was the main reason for an actual war in breaking out, it would have erupted long before.
    You're both touting and simultaneously ignoring the historical context of the time to try and remove "slavery" as an impetus for the civil war.


    Slavery WAS a big deal for the United States at the time and was a HOTLY contested subject of debate. New states entering the Union were EXTREMELY contentious. Missouri compromise ring a bell? Kansas-Nebraska act? Bleeding Kansas? Hell, a man attacked ON THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE over the issue in 1856. (that's a mere five years before the civil war broke out)

    It was by no means a "settled" issue.

    The civil war was the issue of slavery coming to a head.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    then why did war never break out before then
    Because a staunch abolitionist wasn't elected president until that point. Lincoln vocally opposed the expansion of slavery into western territories, and many southerners believed that he wanted to eliminate it throughout the country. The states began to secede almost immediately after Lincoln was sworn into office.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    people who we can all look up to
    And thus they are fantasy.

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