Is saying "all right wingers are fascists" the same as "all muslims are terrorists"?

[Deleted]

...the most common terrorist today (used to be Protestants 50 years ago)

For which era ? Certainly 50 years ago the IRA almost invented modern terrorism.

There is no disagree - I was stating a fact.

The pompous, smug retards here never cease to entertain.


[Infracted]

[schwarzkopf]

Also the IRA are Catholic.

As I mentioned earlier - it was Protestant vs Catholic. There was a fair bit of it on both sides.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The pompous, smug retards here never cease to entertain.

Are you alt-right? Because they seem to be allergic to facts...

[elaina]

No but both are overgeneralizations. Not much to discuss here.

[Chrysia]

No, but if you actually looked at Marxist teachings, you'd see quite alot of transfer. Hitler did read "Das Kapital" afterall.

A lot of people read Das Kapital, that doesn't mean they're Socialists. National Socialism was not, under any comprehensive study of its structure, Socialism. It was a unique nation focused socio-economic principle based on national protectionism and racial purity.

[schwarzkopf]

The pompous, smug retards here never cease to entertain.

Indeed, I'm glad I am here to inform instead.

[Chrysia]

You know the first Crusade was called as a defensive measure to protect Byzantium from the Invading Seljuq Turks right?

"Protect them" by capturing Constantinople for the Catholics?

[Queen of Hamsters]

If you can't air your opinion without breaking lax forum rules then perhaps you might change your rethoric?

Indeed.

But why do that when they can just play the victum card, blame "librulz" and cry for safe spaces as they bitch about "SJW's wanting safe spaces!!"...?

[Deleted]

Fuck sake. I can't believe people actually think this.

You certainly did not find state ownership of the forces of production. Those remained in private hands (including foreign corporations like Ford, GM, and IBM). Far from close identification with the labor movement, you found harsh repression of labor unions. Social welfare provision did not advance markedly beyond that which dated back to Bismarckian Germany. And while there was state regulation of capitalism, it was the kind of wartime mobilization of capital that is found in all sorts of regimes. Too, one must remember that the first inmates of the first concentration camp, Dachau, were members of Germany's leading socialist parties, the SPD and the KPD.

In sum, there is no good reason to regard the NSDAP's use of the terms"socialist" or "worker's party", or the anti-capitalist tone of some of the party's pronouncements, as anything other than cynically propagandistic.

A point of expected irony perhaps is that it's always the same kind of people falling for nazi propaganda. (Believing the nazis were socialists = believing nazi propaganda)

And here is the problem you fall upon. I said National Socialism took in Marxist ideology and applied it to nationalism. Not that is was JUST Socialism. Property remained in private hands, but under the supervision of the Party and was heavily regulated. Like how people often assume "Socialism" works today.

[schwarzkopf]

Here is a bit of a mud map, showing the rectangle covering the range of US politics for your entertainment. The middle is 'Liberalism' which I prefer to call 'Centrism'.

[Muadiib]

No - Fascism is the opposite of Communism. Fascism being RIGHT + Authoritarian, Communism being LEFT + Authoritarian.

Liberalism is the opposite to Authoritarianism, and can exist on the left or the right of politics, although the crazier liberals tend to be on the left.

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There is no disagree - I was stating a fact.

Many make the case that Fascists were and are leftist, certainly by today's standards it falls on the left. I think the problem is the left and right is not set in stone and is in a constant state of motion. I would also say the left/right spectrum is more than a little arbitrary anyway, I doubt many fall completely on the left, right, up or down, we are all a mix. Maybe we should focus more so on what is authoritarian and libertarian. Certainly the "left" leans more and more heavily towards authoritarianism right now. The definition of left and right also differs between country so maybe this isn't an argument either can win. I would just say most of the evils from the last 100 years or so originate from those that line up with the current mainstream left in the US and Europe.

[Chrysia]

And here is the problem you fall upon. I said National Socialism took in Marxist ideology and applied it to nationalism. Not that is was JUST Socialism. Property remained in private hands, but under the supervision of the Party and was heavily regulated. Like how people often assume "Socialism" works today.

Applying limited socialist programs doesn't make your overarching political structure left-wing. See: every modern nation that ranges from generally left to generally right.

[Deleted]

A lot of people read Das Kapital, that doesn't mean they're Socialists. National Socialism was not, under any comprehensive study of its structure, Socialism. It was a unique nation focused socio-economic principle based on national protectionism and racial purity.

Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of internationalist class struggle, but supported the "class struggle between nations", and sought to resolve internal class struggle in the nation while it identified Germany as a proletarian nation fighting against plutocratic nations.

It applied some Marxist theory, but not all.

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Applying limited socialist programs doesn't make your overarching political structure left-wing. See: every modern nation that ranges from generally left to generally right.

I'm not arguing it's left wing.

I'm arguing it's fundamentally a Marxist born Ideology.

[Chrysia]

Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of internationalist class struggle, but supported the "class struggle between nations", and sought to resolve internal class struggle in the nation while it identified Germany as a proletarian nation fighting against plutocratic nations.

It applied some Marxist theory, but not all.

Right, which is why it wasn't a left-wing ideology. It was a right-wing ideology that applied limited socialist policies to reinforce its power.

[jellmoo]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[schwarzkopf]

Many make the case that Fascists were and are leftist,

Many make the case the earth is 6000 years old. We call those people 'WRONG'.

Don't confuse the narrow US political box with the actual reality of the political spectrum.

[Deleted]

"Protect them" by capturing Constantinople for the Catholics?

That wasn't the first Crusade, I think that was the 4th.

[schwarzkopf]

Right, which is why it wasn't a left-wing ideology. It was a right-wing ideology that applied limited socialist policies to reinforce its power.

It applied Extreme Authoritarian policies to reinforce its power.. that is Left+Up = COmmunism, Right+Up = Fascism.

[Deleted]

Right, which is why it wasn't a left-wing ideology. It was a right-wing ideology that applied limited socialist policies to reinforce its power.

Yes. That's what I am arguing. Fascism is a Right-Wing, Authoritarian Marxist Ideology.

[Chrysia]

I'm not arguing it's left wing.

I'm arguing it's fundamentally a Marxist born Ideology.

But it isn't. Hitler used many sources to come to his conclusions about how to create a German national identity. Without Marx, we would have gotten a very similar Nazism through Hitler and his advisers' other views about Nationalism and humanity.