I want a raid mode where we actually get to see the content

[Twdft]

Words of the day: "causation" and "correlation"

[A Chozo]

That is funny. Because the exact opposite of what you say happened when there was 1 raid difficulty. BC had the highest spike in numbers. Soon as they introduced LFG and multiple difficulties in wrath, numbers started dropping.

Yeah you'r right, BC's rise in playerbase nunbers was because of the raid difficulty model they used.

Of course.

[cparle87]

No its not dumb.

So what about bosses that were unkillable when they were first released and all those top guys spent weeks trying to down them unsuccessfully? Would they never be hotfixed and be left unkillable forever?

[Trend]

That is funny. Because the exact opposite of what you say happened when there was 1 raid difficulty. BC had the highest spike in numbers. Soon as they introduced LFG and multiple difficulties in wrath, numbers started dropping.

I think about it this way ... WoW was really good and had great numbers like nothing the world had ever seen. Then Obama was elected in November of 2008 and WoW started a decline. Thanks Obama!

[Bloodmagix]

But if you make things hard even World First guilds cry "mathematically impossible".

[Riistov]

No its not dumb.

Yeah it kinda is, no offense. You can pretty much replicate that by putting on lower ilvl gear.

[Alvito]

Easy solution do the difficulty that suits your game play and desires, don't do the ones that don't. Seems way like way to easy of a choice to be happy, yet somehow you overlooked it.

[Trend]

I want a mode where the raid bosses are set as ORIGINALLY intended. No nerfs. THAT to me is seeing the content. LFR to me is not seeing the content, its just tourist mode with easy difficulty. If you want to separate this new mode from the other difficulties, fine. Also, I think this mode could have an ilvl cap in some way. I was thinking if a piece of gear being worn by a raid member is higher ilvl than intended, it gets scaled down to some random ilvl between minimum and preferred. Might still need adjusting for gear with special procs found in higher difficulties. .

I think you're confused about what "intended" means. You seem to be thinking it is some sort of static thing that is the same for everyone. Interviews and the reality of how Blizzard does every single raid tier confirm that the intention is actually dynamic. It is dynamic in terms of time (encounters get tuned down, not up; players get more gear) and player skill (i.e., mythic isn't intended for bads.) They want mythic to be super hard initially so as be a real challenge for the best players in the world and for it to get gradually easier as time goes on. They want heroic to be a good challenge for lesser skilled or time constrained players and for that to get gradually easier as time goes on. Etc, etc.

Saying you want to do raids as they were "ORIGINALLY intended" does not make any sense. The whole idea of an MMO is that it is a dynamic world and gear and experience helps you to overcome challenges. The better the player, the less those things are needed, thus the prestige of doing this earlier rather than later. Doing a full heroic clear of ToS is not impressive now, but it was impressive that Nurfed did it the first day it was released. That is the kind of thing that was intended for them. It was not intended for most players who needed more gear and experience to do it later. Whatever is an appropriate challenge for you right now is what Blizzard intends for you right now. And even if you got what you asked for, which doesn't make any sense, then what? So you take a hundred thousand attempts on the original mythic KJ to get a kill? Then that's not even the same thing Method did.

The one point I can see that you possibly have is in regards to not liking tuning changing. I think they've gotten better at that, but it would be completely unreasonable to expect Blizzard to get the difficulties of encounters exactly right before hundreds of raids are making honest concerted attempts. It would be nice if they could release everything tuned exactly right, but that is not realistic. So they choose to error on the too-hard side instead of the too-easy side because it's a lot more fair to everyone to make things easier after release than it is to make everything harder. Still, in regards to intent, I believe you are confused. They intended a certain difficulty for mythic KJ. The reality was this it was harder than what they intended. So do you want it as they originally released and was unintended or do you want the tuned down version that they clearly did intend?

[syllabic]

You're going to have an extremely difficult time finding 19 other people who want to go along with your bad idea

[Deleted]

That is funny. Because the exact opposite of what you say happened when there was 1 raid difficulty. BC had the highest spike in numbers. Soon as they introduced LFG and multiple difficulties in wrath, numbers started dropping.

Nah, what is funny is that you're trying to come across as smart and owning yourself in the most embarassing fashion. Let's spell it out for you, smart guy.

Aging games lose players. BC was a huge spike because it was the first expansion to the biggest MMO on the market, a MMO that had even taken root beyond its traditional niche to have a presence in popular culture. People (some of who hadn't even played vanilla and weren't invested in Warcraft) signed on up because they were exctied/curious to see what Blizzard would come up with to expand their game; they wanted in on this thing, to be part it.

You dragging Wrath into it only compounds your ignorance, good job. Wrath is the expansion that to date retains the highest number of concurrent subs; multiple raid difficulties didn't exist then as they do now, there was 10 man, 25 man, and "hard modes" for each. If anything 10 man progression only increased interest and presence in raids since there were plenty of guilds that didn't have the players and/or interest for fielding a 25 man team. Further, LFD was introduced at the ass-end of ICC, it wasn't an expansion feature.

Your assertion is a streaming crock, you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you even play this game?

[Deleted]

No, it should be mythic level difficulty, tuned as it was on release when killed for world first. So for example, whatever tuning KJ had with Method downed it for world first, that's the permanent setting for this mode.

You wont be seeing the content in that mode.

[Stormspellz]

Would rather see them make 10 man raids for lfr/normal, and then heroic/mythic for 10+ flex raids

[Ehrenpanzer]

I want a mode where the raid bosses are set as ORIGINALLY intended. No nerfs. THAT to me is seeing the content. LFR to me is not seeing the content, its just tourist mode with easy difficulty. If you want to separate this new mode from the other difficulties, fine. Also, I think this mode could have an ilvl cap in some way. I was thinking if a piece of gear being worn by a raid member is higher ilvl than intended, it gets scaled down to some random ilvl between minimum and preferred. Might still need adjusting for gear with special procs found in higher difficulties. .

I dont think you grasp the point of a gear treadmill game....

[orgonutil]

this is so stupid

[epLe]

I dont think you grasp the point of a gear treadmill game....

Item levels could cap at heroic levels, leaving the difficulty of mythic to be something you cannot overgear.

Having the mythic rewards be cosmetic like the PvP elite sets, would make comparing 2 different mythic raid groups way better.

[Flurryfang]

No, it should be mythic level difficulty, tuned as it was on release when killed for world first. So for example, whatever tuning KJ had with Method downed it for world first, that's the permanent setting for this mode.

You know, that if you want to experience it like them, you will proberly never be able to defeat it. Even some of the best guilds in the worlds have gone against bosses close to impossible and only beaten with a specific comb and weeks of constant play. Do you seriously think that you will be able to find 19-24 other people who are ready to do that for no other reward then old transmogs, that can be gotten by soloing the current difficulty.

[Mad_Murdock]

That is funny. Because the exact opposite of what you say happened when there was 1 raid difficulty. BC had the highest spike in numbers. Soon as they introduced LFG and multiple difficulties in wrath, numbers started dropping.

Go find the Wow sub charts, Subs hit 12 million at the end of Wrath. Not at the beginning. Ghostcralwer stated that many(aka majority) of a player leveled alts in classic and TBC, but that model had run it course and those players wanted more.

And you should know that "Raiding" was and is still today consider a minority aspect of the game, so why would multiple difficulties cause large drops in sub numbers, when it was the minority that raided?

[Kallisto]

That is funny. Because the exact opposite of what you say happened when there was 1 raid difficulty. BC had the highest spike in numbers. Soon as they introduced LFG and multiple difficulties in wrath, numbers started dropping.

It also was when the biggest links to heroes from WC3 happened outside of class leaders that sat in the capital and did nothing. Barely anyone raided until essentially ICC when normal and heroic 10/25s started coming out proper and it wasn't until LFR (which incidentally stemmed the bleed in that expansion because supposedly everything else was "Too hard." to do) that people going into raid instances went over 20% of the sub base.

It really isn't no real concidence that people started to leave more than people were joining once all links to WC3 were ended with Cata starting. People were leaving the game since Vanilla, the WC3/TFT pull had ended and what we had left was roar dragon DW. Not the master manipulator DW.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

OP: You do understand that Method could not kill M-KJ as originally released, right? And they opined that no one could. In fact, they felt they were spinning their wheels waiting for Blizz to nerf it to something that was at least possible.

[oplawlz]

It also was when the biggest links to heroes from WC3 happened outside of class leaders that sat in the capital and did nothing. Barely anyone raided until essentially ICC when normal and heroic 10/25s started coming out proper and it wasn't until LFR (which incidentally stemmed the bleed in that expansion because supposedly everything else was "Too hard." to do) that people going into raid instances went over 20% of the sub base.

It really isn't no real concidence that people started to leave more than people were joining once all links to WC3 were ended with Cata starting. People were leaving the game since Vanilla, the WC3/TFT pull had ended and what we had left was roar dragon DW. Not the master manipulator DW.

You vastly overestimate how many wow players ever touched wc3. The decline in WoW came from chain blunders in game mechanics, nothing more.