Why Even Nazis Deserve Free Speech

[BajPally]

That's not inequality, sorry.
What part of neo-Nazism do you support?
Hitler was still a terrible guy, and millions died from his genocide.

How is is not inequality? It's okay for one group of people, but I'm literally Hitler if I do it.

Lenin/Stalin/Mao was still a terrible guy, and millions died from their genocide.

[Elegiac]

How is is not inequality? It's okay for one group of people, but I'm literally Hitler if I do it.

Lenin/Stalin/Mao was still a terrible guy, and millions died from their genocide.

Do you understand why "gay pride" and "black pride" are actually, you know, things?

[PC2]

We have a right to free speech, we do not have a right to be free from the consequences of that speech. Aren't you types supposed to be somekind of alpha males and not these sniveling little whiners?

How is this relevant? The thread topic isn't calling for Nazis to be a protected class of people who cant be fired. It's specifically referring to free speech and the first amendment.

[Grapemask]

People are free to speak all they want. They aren't entitled to a spotlight on center stage when they say it, though. Nor are they entitled to everyone else shutting up while they say it. Nor are they entitled to other people tolerating what they have to say.

Violence is not necessarily a valid counter to shitty forms of speech. But I can understand why it feels like the only solution when minority, unethical viewpoints are given a megaphone to spew hate from that they don't deserve to have. It feels like watching Hitler rise and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

[Sama-81]

None of those were actually communist nations.

They represent the closest things the world will ever come to communism, though, at least on a larger scale, so equating them with what an attempt at communism invariably leads to is perfectly in order, really. Who cares about a theoretical perspective that would never stand the smallest of chances outside the mind of an idealist philosopher, when the reality of those theories is inherently linked to systemic mass murder.

[BajPally]

I wouldn't -have- to equate them if "white pride" philosophies didn't carry racist overtones.

Do you know what legitimate "white pride" looks like? It's things like Oktoberfest and St. Patrick's Day. They manage to be appreciative displays of culture without descending into the 'white power' bullshit that you folks are so gung-ho about.

I can assure you that most people I know hate the Stormfront/White Power people. They are not equal to people who are just proud of being white.

[Requiem94]

Hate speech =/= free speech

There's a fucking difference.

Not in the US there isn't. We literally had supreme court judges say just that in the last 5 months.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rst-amendment/ ---article that says just that.

[Elegiac]

They were the closest thing the world will ever come to communism, though

No.

Communist societies are stateless by definition and is mutually exclusive with the idea of totalitarianism.

[Vyxn]

Ok, this is hard, right now in Germany GG. 19 only gives germans the right to assemble (which should have been in place back then) but at the same time according to the supreme court this is extended to everyone because of GG. 2.

Hard to know how they would've ruled back then. Suffice to say, it would've not been fair.

Anyway, you might be right, but as said: i'm not sure if every right hinged on the citizenship alone back then. Would have been problematic to foreigners?

I have no idea, and a quick check on the internet doesn't help either, so yeah, i probably was wrong,

Wow someone on this Forum that admitted another might be right on a topic
that is very rare and I commend you for it
it showed a lot of integrity and I applaud you
and no I'm not gloating just very pleasantly surprised

[Elegiac]

Not in the US there isn't. We literally had supreme court judges say just that in the last 5 months.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rst-amendment/ ---article that says just that.

The Supreme Court also said black people are legally an inherently inferior class of beings.

Is =/= ought.

[zorkuus]

How is this relevant? The thread topic isn't calling for Nazis to be a protected class of people who cant be fired. It's specifically referring to free speech and the first amendment.

It's relevant to him crying that he can't be racist without consequences.

[Deleted]

When your 'facts' are so devoid of context that they say whatever you are asserting them to say? Absolutely.

You said Caesar wasn't a Senator, which is wrong. Caesar elected quaestor in 68 BC, which gave him a membership on the Senate (one of Sulla's reforms in 81 BC).

[Machismo]

You're trying to explain liberty to what appears to be a thread full of people from Europe. Good luck with that.

Does that mean you guys also support relaxing immigration laws... in the name of liberty?

Somehow, I doubt it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don't see how @Livnthedream can honestly believe that outlawing hate speech will lead to some kind of slippery slope.

I guess if someone is a Nazi sympathizer, bringing out the slippery slope fallacy is only natural... but utterly devoid of logic.

We've outlawed hate speech before. We've determined what kind of speech is and is not allowable. We disbanded the KKK and made their ideology illegal.

What kind of slippery slope did that set us down?

Oh that's right, none.

[Machismo]

They represent the closest things the world will ever come to communism, though, at least on a larger scale, so equating them with what an attempt at communism invariably leads to is perfectly in order, really. Who cares about a theoretical perspective that would never stand the smallest of chances outside the mind of an idealist philosopher, when the reality of those theories is inherently linked to systemic mass murder.

All forms of government leads to mass murder.

[Vyxn]

You're trying to explain liberty to what appears to be a thread full of people from Europe. Good luck with that.

I know it is next to impossible to explain true freedoms and liberties to another that for generations never really ever had it

[Elegiac]

All forms of government leads to mass murder.

Yes thank you Andy Anarchist.

[Sama-81]

No.

Communist societies are stateless by definition and is mutually exclusive with the idea of totalitarianism.

No. They are entirely dependent on totalitarianism (of some type or other) to be implemented fully, and most likely to even stay alive after implementation. In theory perhaps not, but that's the only place as well - in reality that sort of communism can never be implemented on a large scale, and it's more than a little naive to think it can. I see no fault in judging something on practical reality, instead of theoretical construct.

[Elegiac]

I know it is next to impossible to explain true freedoms and liberties to another that for generations never really ever had it

Because Europe is such an oppressive Orwellian hellhole.

I think the better question here is "Why do Americans think they are special and better than every other human on the planet."

[Vyxn]

All forms of government leads to mass murder.

and the less government you have the less chance you will have it happen or a much smaller body count