Why Even Nazis Deserve Free Speech

[Cooper]

In which case it wasn't communism.

You don't get to make up new definitions of words because the English language disagrees with your popular mythology.

Reaching only the Dictatorship of the Proletariat stage and not the Withering Away of the State stage doesn't make it not communism. That every nation that has tried has never gotten past stage 2 means there is a problem with the ideology. That every communist experiment to date has come to the same brutal and oppressive results also speaks of a problem in the ideology. If an experiment repeatedly fails, you look at the hypothesis to see why; you don't claim that those weren't true experiments.

[Livnthedream]

You said Caesar wasn't a Senator, which is wrong. Caesar elected quaestor in 68 BC, which gave him a membership on the Senate (one of Sulla's reforms in 81 BC).

He purchased or was appointed to all of his political stations. Another parallel with Palpatine. He never served 'in the mail room' and worked his way up. He started rather effectively at the top. He didn't have to roll around making the fiery speeches like Hitler did. Which is why I will continue to assert that if you look behind the scenes, even a little, Palpatine mirrors Caeser much better than Hitler.

I don't see how @Livnthedream can honestly believe that outlawing hate speech will lead to some kind of slippery slope.

I guess if someone is a Nazi sympathizer, bringing out the slippery slope fallacy is only natural... but utterly devoid of logic.

We've outlawed hate speech before. We've determined what kind of speech is and is not allowable. We disbanded the KKK and made their ideology illegal.

What kind of slippery slope did that set us down?

Oh that's right, none.

So you missed the stupidity of the Hays code? How it still influences products today? Really?

[Requiem94]

Which is why the left wing is typically the ones in favor of funding the arts, you know, the chief means of cultural expression and point of pride for white people?

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An is argument is not an ought argument, as said.

Cool so you won't read the source and you're being ignorant about it. "Free speech for me, but not for thee"

[zorkuus]

They are particularly violent. I don't see any forms of government that are not very capable of such deeds.

People don't need government for that. Having no government doesn't quarantee people will behave, quite the opposite. When governments are toppled, chaos ensues. My source: history.

[Elegiac]

Reaching only the Dictatorship of the Proletariat stage and not the Withering Away of the State stage doesn't make it not communism. That every nation that has tried has never gotten past stage 2 means there is a problem with the ideology. That every communist experiment to date has come to the same brutal and oppressive results also speaks of a problem in the ideology. If an experiment repeatedly fails, you look at the hypothesis to see why; you don't claim that those weren't true experiments.

It speaks rather to the fact that violent regime changes invariably end in totalitarianism. If it were only communist attempts, sure, but even democratic attempts have ended up as such.

[Sama-81]

Nobody is disputing that communism is unfeasible beyond village level populations, except maybe the alt-righters on this thread.

Really? I will have to inform some individuals on the far left that I'm familiar with on a personal basis of that fact then, I suppose. Boy, will they ever be surprised. At least it's good they all have a self-named spokesperson, informing the rest of us what they all think and believe (not to mention informing them of it...). It really does get me wondering as well, why the leader of our parliamentary Left Party refused to stop calling himself communist for the longest of time, when he knew it's unfeasible anyway...

[Elegiac]

Really? I will have to inform some individuals on the far left that I'm familiar with on a personal basis of that fact then, I suppose. Boy, will they ever be surprised. At least it's good they all have a self-named spokesperson, informing the rest of us what they all think and believe (not to mention informing them of it...).

Tell them that they're stupid, sure. Legitimate communists are as silly and deluded as a lot of greenies.

[Machismo]

People don't need government for that. Having no government doesn't quarantee people will behave, quite the opposite. When governments are toppled, chaos ensues.

I did not say an absence of government would prevent such things. Mass murder is inevitable, so long as humans exist.

[Torto]

Which is why the left wing is typically the ones in favor of funding the arts, you know, the chief means of cultural expression and point of pride for white people?

I never realised that history, arts and literature had become a left/right political issue. I understand most modern artists are far left and we need to ensure there is no re-writing of history, but I never assumed museums to be partisan.

[Vyxn]

No.

Communist societies are stateless by definition and is mutually exclusive with the idea of totalitarianism.

your describing the theory of Marxism Communism is the result of trying to implement that impossible theory into reality

only way Marxism ever did work was in very small communities likeminded individuals that was willing not by force to give up all the fruits of their labor for the greater good
that would never work in large scale because your not going to get every one to give up all the fruits of their labor without force so to make that happen you have to create a large overbearing totalitarian police state

[Elegiac]

I never realised that history, arts and literature had become a left/right political issue. I understand most modern artists are far left and we need to ensure there is no re-writing of history, but I never assumed museums to be partisan.

The right wing in both Australia and the United States has taken a particularly anti-intellectual bent, that includes attacking artists and historians and denying funding to the institutions that encourage the production and preservation of culture.

[Torto]

If the US is going to end up like Europe in twenty years, thank fucking god.

You actually want more government interference in your life?

[JohnBrown1917]

Especially when plenty of countries do Freedom better than 'Murica.

Speaking of which...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...F_2016_ranking

[zorkuus]

I did not say an absence of government would prevent such things. Mass murder is inevitable, so long as humans exist.

No shit. Deep philosophy there. What is your argument again? Kill all people?

[Torto]

The right wing in both Australia and the United States has taken a particularly anti-intellectual bent, that includes attacking artists and historians and denying funding to the institutions that encourage the production and preservation of culture.

And that is just rubbish.

[Sama-81]

They are particularly violent. I don't see any forms of government that are not very capable of such deeds.

Oh capable, I do agree. Necessary though? No, that goes for nazism and communism, but certainly not for very many others.

[Elegiac]

your describing the theory of Marxism Communism is the result of trying to implement that impossible theory into reality

only way Marxism ever did work was in very small communities likeminded individuals that was willing not by force to give up all the fruits of their labor for the greater good
that would never work in large scale because your not going to get every one to give up all the fruits of their labor without force so to make that happen you have to create a large overbearing totalitarian police state

No fucking shit, I'm not arguing that it does work.

Then again, you lot constantly bang on about how all left wingers are commies so it's unsurprising you feel the need to mansplain communism to a left winger that doesn't even support it.

[Machismo]

You actually want more government interference in your life?

Isn't that what most people want, whether they are willing to admit it, or not? Or is it that they want government interference in the lives of others, and not them?

[Elegiac]

And that is just rubbish.

Which is why the Liberals felt the need to cut the ABC and various arts grants.

[Sama-81]

Tell them that they're stupid, sure. Legitimate communists are as silly and deluded as a lot of greenies.

I can tell them, and have, multiple times. At least I have someone on the left reinforcing it now. Not sure how to tell the leader of our parliamentary Left Party though, and I rather doubt he'll listen either...certainly would be fun though!

Edit: Oh never mind, it was the former party leader, not the current one. Fair should be fair, even when talking about party leaders stubbornly refusing to stop labeling themselves as communists!