Too many "Evil" and "Good" classes. Time for something more neutral?

[Elestia]

Think about it... DK, DH, Rogue, Warlock, Shadow Priest - they're all rooted in deep darkness - fel / legion, scourge / undead and void.

There's plenty currently to balance this out too, almost to where the 'good' classes are counterpoint to the evil - Paladin, Druid, Monk, Mage and I suppose Holy/Disc Priest.


So what's left? Warrior, Hunter, Shaman are all left somewhere in the middle - notably all much more strongly identified with horde than ally.


What would fill the void? Would it be good to have something down to earth rather than yet another super nautral?

[mickybrighteyes]

wait.. I got it. ROGUE!

wait.. hold up how are rogues 'darkness'?


Rogues have always been among the most mundane classes in the game only out mundaned by warriors. Only the sub specc post legion had any real dark magic pushed into it (well mop had a single spell that was overtly shadow magic and maybe shadowstep).

edit: rogues are pirate (close quarters light armored combatant), Assassin (poison/bleed killer), and then ninja now. Those are not inherently found on any end of the good/evil spectrum unless you're pulling out specific lore examples and ignoring other ideas of the class fantasy.

[Deleted]

So what's left? Warrior, Hunter, Shaman are all left somewhere in the middle - notably all much more strongly identified with horde than ally.

The only class here I see that is more identified with the Horde is Shaman. Warrior and Hunter identifies strongly with Horde as much as Alliance.

About the post - I never really thought about that, but the way I see it, I don't find anything wrong with Evil or Dark, and Holy or Good classes... they show more variety between the classes and it makes them feel more unique comparing to each other.

[ONCHEhap]

Can we finally stop calling DKs evil?

Scourge death knights are evil,ebon blade death knights aren't.They were built as evil killing machines against their will but turned themselves against that.The whole point of the ebon blade is that they're not evil anymore,even the Forsaken do more fucked up shit nowadays

[WhiteEagle888]

Tinker, Dragonsworn, Runemaster they are all fairly neutral.

[Nnyco]

how is mage and monk good?

there have been probably as many evil mages as there been good

monk is all about balance so they are pretty neutral aswell

rogue being evil is also pretty questionable

and just because death knights use the undead doesnt really mean they are an evil class per se aswell considerin their entire backstory is to rebel against the scourge

[Razion]

Bard would be a pretty neutral candidate.

[mickybrighteyes]

and just because death knights use the undead doesnt really mean they are an evil class per se aswell considerin their entire backstory is to rebel against the scourge

I can see the death knights as still being on the evil end due to some of the methods they use to deal with their interests. I don't see them as really encroaching anywhere near 'good' territory.

[FuxieDK]

Think about it... DK, DH, Rogue, Warlock, Shadow Priest - they're all rooted in deep darkness - fel / legion, scourge / undead and void.

There's plenty currently to balance this out too, almost to where the 'good' classes are counterpoint to the evil - Paladin, Druid, Monk, Mage and I suppose Holy/Disc Priest.


So what's left? Warrior, Hunter, Shaman are all left somewhere in the middle - notably all much more strongly identified with horde than ally.


What would fill the void? Would it be good to have something down to earth rather than yet another super nautral?

Just as many mages are evil as good..
Druids are the epitomy of balance/neutrality.
Rogue is neutral, as there is no evil intent not good.
Also, Paladins (in many fantasy settings) are evil. E.g. Rose of the Prophet book series, Auda ibn Jad is a "Dark Paladin of Zhakrin" and super super evil.

[derpkitteh]

wait.. I got it. ROGUE!

wait.. hold up how are rogues 'darkness'?


Rogues have always been among the most mundane classes in the game only out mundaned by warriors. Only the sub specc post legion had any real dark magic pushed into it (well mop had a single spell that was overtly shadow magic and maybe shadowstep).

edit: rogues are pirate (close quarters light armored combatant), Assassin (poison/bleed killer), and then ninja now. Those are not inherently found on any end of the good/evil spectrum unless you're pulling out specific lore examples and ignoring other ideas of the class fantasy.

rogues are actually more evil than warlocks. rogues and priests deal in the only truly evil power in wow, void magic.

fel can influence you into chaotic behavior, but it's still just a tool like arcane. void has an actual sentience behind it, and it is all consuming.

tinkers would be a good neutral class. pure technology, no need for magic.

[Requimortem]

Think about it... DK, DH, Rogue, Warlock, Shadow Priest - they're all rooted in deep darkness - fel / legion, scourge / undead and void.

There's plenty currently to balance this out too, almost to where the 'good' classes are counterpoint to the evil - Paladin, Druid, Monk, Mage and I suppose Holy/Disc Priest.


So what's left? Warrior, Hunter, Shaman are all left somewhere in the middle - notably all much more strongly identified with horde than ally.


What would fill the void? Would it be good to have something down to earth rather than yet another super nautral?

There's nothing even remotely evil about them. Let me join the Burning Legion and gain true power and then you can call my class "evil".

[mickybrighteyes]

rogues are actually more evil than warlocks. rogues and priests deal in the only truly evil power in wow, void magic.

fel can influence you into chaotic behavior, but it's still just a tool like arcane. void has an actual sentience behind it, and it is all consuming.

tinkers would be a good neutral class. pure technology, no need for magic.

So shadow and void are now the same thing?


Also what rogues are shown dabbling in void magic, cause I can't recall any... and if they exist they're in teh same category as Skovald for classwide example.

Again...
Rogues are the second most mundane class in the game behind Warriors and have no real inclination to any end of the alignment spectrum beyond 'chaotic' or 'lawful' in how they do things.

[derpkitteh]

So shadow and void are now the same thing?


Also what rogues are shown dabbling in void magic, cause I can't recall any... and if they exist they're in teh same category as Skovald for classwide example.

Again...
Rogues are the second most mundane class in the game behind Warriors and have no real inclination to any end of the alignment spectrum beyond 'chaotic' or 'lawful' in how they do things.

when you stealth, you're using shadow magic.

sub rogues in legion use quite a bit of shadow magic.

but like, just using the power itself isn't evil, it's about application of the power, what the person does with it. so, no classes in the game are actually evil.

[mickybrighteyes]

when you stealth, you're using shadow magic.

sub rogues in legion use quite a bit of shadow magic.

but like, just using the power itself isn't evil, it's about application of the power, what the person does with it. so, no classes in the game are actually evil.

and yet you said 'void' originally.

I've only seen 'void' spells tied to shadow priest players and certain story characters. Now, yes, every void damage spell is shadow damage but it seems that shadow magic and void magic aren't actually the same.

[Eazy]

when you stealth, you're using shadow magic.

Not really... When you're stealth, you're just stealth, you do not use any magic. Even the icon shows that's something like camoufalge.

Also what rogues are shown dabbling in void magic, cause I can't recall any... and if they exist they're in teh same category as Skovald for classwide example.

Source of that please. I only see shadow magic for shadowblade and shadowstep and that's all.

[ONCHEhap]

Death Knights need to inflict suffering otherwise they suffer withdrawal. In their Legion campaign they attacked allied factions time and again. And don't get me started on Minerva.

Yeah Legion writing for DKs is absolutely horrible and bad.it's like they retconned Wrath of the Lich King entierely

[Darththeo]

and yet you said 'void' originally.

I've only seen 'void' spells tied to shadow priest players and certain story characters. Now, yes, every void damage spell is shadow damage but it seems that shadow magic and void magic aren't actually the same.

Shadow magic is the magic of the void.

[mickybrighteyes]

Not really... When you're stealth, you're just stealth, you do not use any magic. Even the icon shows that's something like camoufalge.

while the spell is classified as physical (mechanically), and the icon simply shows what looks like a person in a bush... it still is used in a method that lets you walk across open, flat ground with no cover under the high noon sun without being seen. We can either assume it was a gameplay quality of life change or that the devs mean for it to have some sort of magical imbuement. The later has also been referenced a few times that rogues utilize minor 'mysticism' effects to bend light or something as their method for stealth (literally enveloping themselves in shadows).

[Kaleredar]

Death Knights need to inflict suffering otherwise they suffer withdrawal. In their Legion campaign they attacked allied factions time and again. And don't get me started on Minerva.

That was under the dubious command of Bolvar, not from the DKs of Acherus themselves. Darion wanted nothing to do with rezzing Tirion.


Whitemane accepted being one of the four horsemen as a form of absolution for her sins while in the scarlet crusade. Trollbane wants to save Azeroth after seeing his failures as king. Oromus, a DK in ICC, carved out his eyes as a form of penance and worked. The DKs overall seem to be a fairly stoic and pragmatic group, making the best of their bad situation.


So I'd say the Death Knights very much aren't "evil." Bolvar is the questionable one here. As for inflicting suffering... well, there's no shortage of potential recipients knocking at Azeroth's door right now, now is there?

[mickybrighteyes]

Shadow magic is the magic of the void.

Death, void, and shadow have multiple references for themselves existing, all use the classification 'shadow'. But we don't have death knights or rogues noted for 'void' magic. Hell, prior to legion there were exactly zero references to void magic among the playable characters and rogues themselves were in a grey area for 'magical' ability (as in they didn't have anything for the longest until they finally got certain QoL skills baseline).

I can accapt that void = shadow if there were some real final say on it that wasn't just fan theory. As it stands... I can only see it as separate entities using the same classification for the purposes of game mechanics. Similar to why druids have 2 schools of 'nature' magic (one being arcane) so they don't get fucked over because of an interrupt.