Too many "Evil" and "Good" classes. Time for something more neutral?

[My User Name]

I'd rather call DKs and DHs anti-heroes. They are definitely tackling with dark powers, yes, but for the greater good. Warlock? I guess they only do it for their profit? That'd make them neutral still.

[Tyrione]

That moment when you say druid is good class and shaman is neutral.

[WhiteEagle888]

They've been reinforcing the idea of necromancy & diseases into Dk, i do not believe there's room for a Necromancer unless they remove Unholy from DK.

Unholy will be redesigned to be an anti-paladin DoTs afflictions and so on

[Brogan117]

shadows and void are the same thing. gloom blade, goremaw's bite, that sub dot that slows, the damage buff/energy restore ability you use while stealthed, cloak of shadows, and stealth itself.

stealth isn't just camo, "Conceals you in the shadows until cancelled, allowing you to stalk enemies without being seen." is the direct quote of the tool tip.

If anything, rogues while wielding those goremaw daggers are using fel-energies to empower them. Remember, those daggers are made out of demonic teeth. It's just for simplicitys sake. And as far as I remember there is no "player character"-spell, even if its from dh's that deals "Fel-Damage" or "Void-Damage" even though that would be logical, since they are using it even by the name of some of their skills. Those sorts of skills get either chaos-, fire or shadowdamage, whatever fits the skill hereby most. Examples would be the demon hunter's immolation aura which simply deals fire damage, yet visually, indicated by green flames, it should be Fel-Damage. Another prime example is shadow priests artifact ability. Its even named "VOID Turrent" yet doesnt do "void" but "shadow" damage, and before you yet again imply shadow damage equals void damage, no it doesn't since even demon hunter's while using the "demon blades" talent deal shadow damage. This still doesnt mean they use void magic. It's just for gameplays sake that blizzard isnt adding another shitton of damagetypes.

[WhiteEagle888]

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Sadly, I cannot currently afford the chronicles, so don't know the map fully.

As well, wouldn't neutral just be generally 'non' magic then? I don't really see rogues as an alignment to shadow.

Warriors are neutral and non magic users that's right. Druids use Life magic - Chaotic Good if you will.
As for rogues, they only dabble in dark magic - I honestly don't think they know what's behind their powers though like shadow priests know.

[omeomorfismo]

Can we finally stop calling DKs evil?

Scourge death knights are evil,ebon blade death knights aren't.They were built as evil killing machines against their will but turned themselves against that.The whole point of the ebon blade is that they're not evil anymore,even the Forsaken do more fucked up shit nowadays

lol no. no forsaken force other undeads to fight against their will like dk do with their ghouls (and modifications).
and the BIGEVIL1!1 that forsaken do is basically using bioweapon, when a unholy dk is nothing more than a walking bio-weapon .-.

[Lochton]

Warriors are neutral and non magic users that's right. Druids use Life magic - Chaotic Good if you will.
As for rogues, they only dabble in dark magic - I honestly don't think they know what's behind their powers though like shadow priests know.

This is where I am not 100% sure. Is rogues placed in the 'dark magic' part due to abilities? For so, then Hunters would be in the nature part. And well, warriors at current, is picture oddly with some.

[mickybrighteyes]

Alright. waiting for shadow and death to get separated mechanically then.

Seems like a pointless retcon to make all shadow void... unless it's death...

[WhiteEagle888]

This is where I am not 100% sure. Is rogues placed in the 'dark magic' part due to abilities? For so, then Hunters would be in the nature part. And well, warriors at current, is picture oddly with some.

rogues are chaotic/neutral, or chaotic/good, or chaotic/evil
warriors can be anything
hunters generally lean towards chaotic because of nature yet not as chaotic as rogues but otherwise can be anything.

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Alright. waiting for shadow and death to get separated mechanically then.

Seems like a pointless retcon to make all shadow void... unless it's death...

Shadow and Death are already separated. Both are evil along with Disorder/Fel.

[Kralljin]

Unholy will be redesigned to be an anti-paladin DoTs afflictions and so on

Doubtful, considering Unholy has been the cornerstone of Death Knights and is the closest spec to the Wacraft 3 version.

[WhiteEagle888]

Doubtful, considering Unholy has been the cornerstone of Death Knights and is the closest spec to the Wacraft 3 version.

Warcraft 3? You mean Death Coil, Death Pact, Unholy Aura? Precisely those abilities will stay as they are redesigned to be anti-paladins.
Minions will move to Necromancers though.

[derpkitteh]

Alright. waiting for shadow and death to get separated mechanically then.

Seems like a pointless retcon to make all shadow void... unless it's death...

that's my issue in the game. there's so many fucking spells that they just slapped shadow damage on, and it's not shadow/void.

it's the lazy way of saying "dark energy".

[mickybrighteyes]

Shadow and Death are already separated. Both are evil along with Disorder/Fel.

no... death spells are still 'shadow' mechanically.

edit:
so which 'shadow' do warlocks utilize?

[Deleted]

fel can influence you into chaotic behavior, but it's still just a tool like arcane. void has an actual sentience behind it, and it is all consuming.

Fel is a tool that requires you to kill someone or something to use it. It's fueled by the life force of humans, animals or plants. Many would consider that pretty bad.

Meanwhile you can use void magic without harming anyone... if you're hitting a target dummy that is.

[Kralljin]

Warcraft 3? You mean Death Coil, Death Pact, Unholy Aura? Precisely those abilities will stay as they are redesigned to be anti-paladins.
Minions will move to Necromancers though.

Raising the dead has been a key element to Unholy design and Death Knight class fantasy.

Heck, Arthas got famous for raising the dead.

[Deleted]

Think about it... DK, DH, Rogue, Warlock, Shadow Priest - they're all rooted in deep darkness - fel / legion, scourge / undead and void.

There's plenty currently to balance this out too, almost to where the 'good' classes are counterpoint to the evil - Paladin, Druid, Monk, Mage and I suppose Holy/Disc Priest.


So what's left? Warrior, Hunter, Shaman are all left somewhere in the middle - notably all much more strongly identified with horde than ally.


What would fill the void? Would it be good to have something down to earth rather than yet another super nautral?

I remember you that the Scarlet Crusade are mainly paladins and disc/holy priests and they are assholes. In the other hand, there are lots of shadow priests defeating the legion. The goodness of a character is defined by his story, not class, thought it may have influence. Druids of the flame were not good druids. And mages? Can I remember you all the blue dragonflight problem, or Kael'thas?. The class fantasy may be "darker" or "lighter" but each character has own intentions.

[WhiteEagle888]

no... death spells are still shadow damage mechanically.

For gameplay reasons and nostalgia. Lunar spells could be not arcane but lunar. Solar spells Solar and not nature.
But mechanics is still a convenience thing nothing more. The lore moved past them in the meantime.
Maybe one day they will fit the spellschools to the lore in the future.

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Raising the dead has been a key element to Unholy design and Death Knight class fantasy.

Heck, Arthas got famous for raising the dead.

Necromancers are far more capable in that regard. Does Kel'Thuzad ring a bell for you?
As I said, they will remain prefect anti-paladins with Unholy though.

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no... death spells are still 'shadow' mechanically.

edit:
so which 'shadow' do warlocks utilize?

Edit: Warlocks utilize void-shadow spells.

[derpkitteh]

Fel is a tool that requires you to kill someone or something to use it. It's fueled by the life force of humans, animals or plants. Many would consider that pretty bad.

Meanwhile you can use void magic without harming anyone... if you're hitting a target dummy that is.

you can use void to heal, too. fel can be used to heal too though.

like, fel fire like a destruction warlock uses, you can just call on that like arcane magic. we see gul'dan do it in the audio drama, he's there in the tomb, there's nothing around to sacrifice, yet he's flinging fel fire at khadgar.

you can also have fel magic funneled into you from a demon within the nether, even without a portal or anything like that. kil'jaeden floods gul'dan with a glimpse of true power towards the end of that audio drama.

ultimately, it's a tool, and any tool in the hands of a bad person will be used for bad things. as long as you're draining the life force of something evil, i don't think it's that bad.

[mickybrighteyes]

Edit: Warlocks utilize void-shadow spells.

but isn't it the death category that relates to draining life force from targets and ripping souls assunder?

[WhiteEagle888]

but isn't it the death category that relates to draining life force from targets and ripping souls assunder?

No, it's jointly used By Void, Death and Fel.