Bannon, basically: Trump’s campaign was a fraud

[Asotcha]

If he actually believed the wall could/would be done then he is not as smart as some paint him to be.

Yep, and the other stuff like the debt ceiling and other things were inevitably going to come out the other end of the process as acceptable, even if the fight to get them hammered into shape would have been longer and more hair-raising then we may end up seeing now. It also comes across to me that he's bitter that he doesn't get to 'play' there anymore to cause trouble more directly.

edited to add that Bannon's 'help' is unlikely to do any real good being a raging apologist bitch, because Trumps own twitter feed was already doing all that same stuff.

[CostinR]

You can call his platform coherent, or you can call it moderate, but you cannot call it both. And with the length of his "nobody else did this" list being extensive, I don't think you can get away with the latter. Especially not after he hires Bannon.

Trump throughout the entire campaign espoused beliefs on healthcare, social policy, infrastructure, taxes and foreign policy that where moderate. He did change specific points many times throughout the campaign but the overall stance of his message on all of these issues was a moderate one and on foreign policy in particular a more restrained, less interventionist one. For instance while almost every Republican advocated a No-Fly Zone over Syria, and tearing up the Iran deal. Trump argued it was a stupid idea to do a NFZ, attacked everyone else ( in particular Bush ) for the idiocy the establishment was responsible for the last 17 years and while he attacked the Iran deal many times he NEVER said he'd shred it.

He was a hardliner on some issues like immigration, in general not just muslims or mexicans, combating terrorism and trade. But he's got fairly strong support on those issues ( 60% of Americans back the INITIAL version of the Travel Ban ).

That isn't to suggest he didn't adopt an incendiary rhetoric, oh he did.

As for Bannon, it was a mistake to hire Bannon in the White House, primarily because although Bannon has the right stances on most issues he isn't willing to compromise or negotiate at all...well guess what running the executive branch of the biggest government in the world is ALL about compromise and negotiation.

He's not a moderate or a centrist. He's a populist.

Populists don't necessarily adopt a centrist stance on most issues: Duterte in the Philippines is a populist, he's certainly NOT a centrist. Undeniable Trump is a populist but he does fall down the political center.

[Adam Jensen]

He isn't calling the campaign a fraud. He's just saying Trump is incapable of accomplishing anything.

Meanwhile, everyone who isn't rational is saying "we told you so since March 2015 . . . "

[Breccia]

Trump throughout the entire campaign espoused beliefs on healthcare

Where are they? Because I didn't see Trump's plan come before the Senate or House.

social policy

Where are they?

infrastructure

Where are they?

taxes

Where are they?

and foreign policy

Where are they?

Trump's ideas on all of these, many of which were on his website, seem to have...evaporated. Gone. His healthcare plan never made it to Congress. On Jan 22nd he signed and E.O. which basically said "someone make a plan for me" despite having one on his website. It was never motioned. It was never floors. Trump himself abandoned it literally 2 days in, and instead asked Congress to make something that covered more people, better, for less money. Incidentally, that's not moderate either. That's impossible.

His other plans just flat out don't exist. Now, if his plans were so moderate, so central, so safe, you'd think they'd be on the floor by now. But no. We have seen the House and the Senate scrap Trump's thoughts entirely, dismissing them like farts, and making their own from scratch.

And I think you know why. I think you know, deep down, that Congress ignored Trump's plans like farts, because they stunk. They had no chance. His tax cuts were too severe. His budget cut too many social programs and funded the Wall, a poison pill. He wants to magically get a trillion dollars in free infrastructure. Technically, he doesn't need Congress to work those trade deals he said he'd create with China (currency manipulator) and Mexico (pay for the Wall) but those vanished immediately too in the harsh light of reality. Not because Congress blocked them, but because they, too, were impossible.

And let's talk about Russia Russia Russia. Regardless of if Trump I'm sorry, I have to be more specific, Donald Trump my goodness I'm sorry again, I have to be a lot more specific, Donald J Trump Sr. actually colluded with Russia or not, he was exceptionally interested in getting better relations with the country that flat-out invaded Ukraine and attacked the election. Nobody else wanted this. It is impossible to defend that as moderate. It's difficult to defend that as American.

Everyone on this forum, including you and I, know how these things work. Basically, extreme positions don't get very far. The Freedom Caucus pushed for a full repeal with nothing to replace it. What was the vote for such? Oh that's right, it never happened. Why? Because that fart of a proposal was too extreme, too toxic, to have any chance of passing like the gas it was.

Now go to the link provided above and find the very first line of Trump's health care plan. What does it say? What was the Freedom Caucus pushing for? Are the Freedom Caucus moderates?

Where does "bomb the shit out of" fall in the political spectrum?

Where does jailing a political opponent fall in the political spectrum?

I'll repeat my last argument: Trump did say some things that were moderate. He said even more things that were extreme. He said even more things that were impossible and/or lies. You can try to make the argument that he was a moderate, but if that's the case, why aren't his nice, safe, moderate plans in front of Congress right now? He had them, right? They were on his website? He mentioned them in his rallies? Well? Where are they? Why did they up and vanish like farts, loudly announcing their smelly presence then fading away like they never existed, leaving America with a foul taste in their mouths?

Trump is not a moderate. He never was. The best you can hope to defend is that he did sometimes say some things that were moderate, in between the times he said things that were extreme, and the things that were impossible or crazy. You cannot make the argument that he was a moderate and also consistent. Trump's proven words and actions in the campaign, and especially afterwards where he dumped all of them, destroy your argument entirely.

Trump's farts of ideas will continue to fail to make appearances in Congress, because Congress knows what farts are: the angry screams of feces trying about to make their presence known to the world. And they are not interested in Donald's Dump.

[CostinR]

I'll repeat my last argument: Trump did say some things that were moderate. He said even more things that were extreme. He said even more things that were impossible and/or lies. You can try to make the argument that he was a moderate, but if that's the case, why aren't his nice, safe, moderate plans in front of Congress right now? He had them, right? They were on his website? He mentioned them in his rallies? Well? Where are they? Why did they up and vanish like farts, loudly announcing their smelly presence then fading away like they never existed, leaving America with a foul taste in their mouths?

We were talking here about him as a moderate candidate not on what he's accomplished or will try to accomplish as president. That was the point of my original post actually: That Trump ran as a moderate, won as a moderate against the purists but that the 4chan breitbart club somehow got it stuck in their hands he was the farthest right candidate there could be out there?

The entire purpose of this thread was about calling Trump's campaign a farce...because Trump is apparently not going to push for radical extreme changes that he never advocated for in the first place on the campaign trail?

You can bitch about what he's doing, but this about the campaign.

As for your previous statements on where are his plans. He doesn't need Congress to push for a more restrained less interventionist foreign policy, he's already doing that himself. On social policy Trump doesn't care to do much ( that transgender ban affair is turning out to be a bunch of nothing ).

Taxes will come once recess is over, and infrastructure after. They've already reached out to find a middle ground with House Democrats on taxes. Would have happened earlier if they hadn't spent all these months on that idiotic healthcare push.

Where does "bomb the shit out of" fall in the political spectrum?

Where does jailing a political opponent fall in the political spectrum?

Annihilating terrorists falls squarely down the political center. Very few people disagree on that, if they did they'd protest the fact that Trump is actually doing it right now.

As for prosecuting Hillary, he never said jailing her let's be clear on that matter nor was he ever a fan of lock her up, last I recall people still care about accountability and yes most people in the United States feel Hillary should be brought to justice, then again the vast majority of people think Congress as a whole is deeply corrupt, and they'd be right.

And let's talk about Russia Russia Russia. Regardless of if Trump I'm sorry, I have to be more specific, Donald Trump my goodness I'm sorry again, I have to be a lot more specific, Donald J Trump Sr. actually colluded with Russia or not, he was exceptionally interested in getting better relations with the country that flat-out invaded Ukraine and attacked the election. Nobody else wanted this. It is impossible to defend that as moderate. It's difficult to defend that as American.

You think you're that special that Russia attacked your elections. Apparently the US has been sleeping for the last twenty years when it comes to what they've done in European politics. Welcome to the reality of the world.

Better relations with Russia still make sense, doesn't mean you compromise over Ukraine or ignore or forget what they've done. There are advantages in containing China by having good relations with Russia in Asia, or containing Iran ( the beast YOU fools gave significant power over in the Middle East over your asinine foreign policy ).

When I see Trump promise help to Georgia and then blink like a little bitch as Bush did in 2008 or promise to stand up to Russia then cower like a girl as Obama did in 2014 over Ukraine then we can talk about Trump being extreme on Russia.

[Felya]

We were talking here about him as a moderate candidate not on what he's accomplished or will try to accomplish as president. That was the point of my original post actually: That Trump ran as a moderate, won as a moderate against the purists but that the 4chan breitbart club somehow got it stuck in their hands he was the farthest right candidate there could be out there?

There was nothing moderate about his campaign. This is absurd...

The entire purpose of this thread was about calling Trump's campaign a farce...because Trump is apparently not going to push for radical extreme changes that he never advocated for in the first place on the campaign trail?

Did you see what Bannon said this was going to impact? Are you suggesting Trump didn't run on massive deregulation, building a wall or a Muslim travel ban? How are either of those moderate? All three are extremes and all three are right wing extremes.

You can bitch about what he's doing, but this about the campaign.

Dis he campaign on the wall? Did he campaign on shutting down social programs? Did he campaign on the Muslim ban? Did he campaign on repealing healthcare? Did he campaign on 'religious freedom'?

As for your previous statements on where are his plans. He doesn't need Congress to push for a more restrained less interventionist foreign policy, he's already doing that himself. On social policy Trump doesn't care to do much ( that transgender ban affair is turning out to be a bunch of nothing ).

What's the difference between none intervention and isolationist? Did Trump defund a large swath of social programs?

Taxes will come once recess is over, and infrastructure after. They've already reached out to find a middle ground with House Democrats on taxes. Would have happened earlier if they hadn't spent all these months on that idiotic healthcare push.

What push? Trump hasn't done shit, other than bitch about it. He didn't present any update to the healthcare proposal from months ago.

Annihilating terrorists falls squarely down the political center. Very few people disagree on that, if they did they'd protest the fact that Trump is actually doing it right now.

Other than the fact that Trump does not consider domestic terrorism, actual terrorism and that he completely flip flopped on Saudi Arabia, as soon it made his family money.

As for prosecuting Hillary, he never said jailing her let's be clear on that matter nor was he ever a fan of lock her up, last I recall people still care about accountability and yes most people in the United States feel Hillary should be brought to justice, then again the vast majority of people think Congress as a whole is deeply corrupt, and they'd be right.

After a year of leading chants of 'lock her up'... he didn't say how... /facepalm

You think you're that special that Russia attacked your elections. Apparently the US has been sleeping for the last twenty years when it comes to what they've done in European politics. Welcome to the reality of the world.

US kicked out Russian spies in 2010 for trying to influence US politicians and business men. Who exactly was sleeping? Oh and those spies, at least Chapman, was a loud Trump supporter.

Better relations with Russia still make sense, doesn't mean you compromise over Ukraine or ignore or forget what they've done. There are advantages in containing China by having good relations with Russia in Asia, or containing Iran ( the beast YOU fools gave significant power over in the Middle East over your asinine foreign policy ).

Russia has been blaming the US and west for everything from holomodor to Stalin to the death row of Putin opponents and journalists. There is nothing wrong with better relations with Russia, but better relations with Putin are not possible. He wouldn't turn away from what grants him support and without demonizing the west and US, he has nothing.

When I see Trump promise help to Georgia and then blink like a little bitch as Bush did in 2008 or promise to stand up to Russia then cower like a girl as Obama did in 2014 over Ukraine then we can talk about Trump being extreme on Russia.

Trump claimed to have a relationship with Putin prior to elections. Saying he met with him during the pageant in Moscow and when both were interviewed by 60 minutes. During his campaign he suffered extreme memory loss, to not only forget those meetings he boasted about took place, but also what the word relationship meant. You don't think that's extreme? Well, you might not, considering kicking out spies, shutting down their living quarters and passing the Maginsky act, was Obama cowering...

Just remember, that law that Donald Trump jr was going to exchange for info on Hillary, was the Magnitsky act. But, you think passing a law that had this sort of reaction from Russia, was Obama cowering... what does that make Trump? Oh, that's right, Putin's cockholster...

[CostinR]

Did he campaign on shutting down social programs?

He actually campaigned on the very opposite on social programs, the fact you're bitching about this and other things shows just how little attention you actually paid to the campaign beyond the soundbites.

He actually vowed during the campaign numerous times he wouldn't cut medicare, social security and even medicaid at times.

Or maybe it's the fact you brought up massive deregulation as something Bannon is complaining about...when he actually isn't.

What push? Trump hasn't done shit, other than bitch about it. He didn't present any update to the healthcare proposal from months ago.

He worked behind the scenes on healthcare, he, Pence and the political health appointees he made.

[LaserSharkDFB]

He actually vowed during the campaign numerous times he wouldn't cut medicare, social security and even medicaid at times.

And then he supported a bill that would have cut Medicaid funding. So that was another lie.

He worked behind the scenes on healthcare, he, Pence and the political health appointees he made.

Calling Congress to a lunch meeting so he could bully them without actually understanding the subject as hand does not count as 'working behind the scenes'.

[Jastall]

He worked behind the scenes on healthcare, he, Pence and the political health appointees he made.

Fat load of good that did him.

The Republicans also burned their majority vote on the health care hill, now the Senate needs a super majority to pass anything. Which means knocking on the door of the Democrats. Which means pretty nothing but what can make traditional consensus between the two parties will pass when it comes to stuff like budget and tax reforms. The Wall? It's about as real as the one in Game of Thrones now.

Unless fortune turns around and the Republicans get a very good mid term in 2018, Trump's agenda has ground to a near halt. He needs Congress for most of it, and it won't play ball. That's assuming his policies don't get drowned out in even more (often self inflicted) scandals.

[Paranoid Android]

I cannot believe people elected this Turd.

[Breccia]

We were talking here about him as a moderate candidate

Yes. Yes we are. Look at all the things I said he ran on. Look at all the things he did run on.

I have given, what, a dozen examples of Trump not being a moderate? That means, even if you come up with a dozen yourself, you're still wrong, because it makes him inconsistent. And since I nailed most of his strong points, you have some digging to do.

I don't think you actually read my posts. I was very specific in calling out things he ran on, and mentioned during his campaign. If you can't defend your argument, at least have the sense to admit defeat or go quiet. Because right now, it looks like you're calling me a liar.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Are all of Trump's ardent fans finding it REALLY hard to defend him now? Or are they all just banned at the moment.

[Breccia]

Are all of Trump's ardent fans finding it REALLY hard to defend him now? Or are they all just banned at the moment.

Maybe they're on the way to Arizona? I'm betting teleprompter only on that one. Hey, remember when Trump said presidential candidates shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters? The memory is as clear as if I'm linking the evidence on Breitbart so it can't be dismissed as fake news.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Maybe they're on the way to Arizona? I'm betting teleprompter only on that one. Hey, remember when Trump said presidential candidates shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters? The memory is as clear as if I'm linking the evidence on Breitbart so it can't be dismissed as fake news.

Trump makes it really easy to bash him and really hard to defend him since all you have to do is play Trump criticizing himself.

But you can't fully say that Trump is criticizing himself when he bashed teleprompter use. After all, Trump going off script has given us some even more amazingly incriminating quotes.

[Rukh]

So basically what the majority of the US already knew. Trump is a conman and you can't believe anything a conman says. He's been a conman since they 80s and before. How stupid are the people that convinced themselves "Yeah but he's not lying to ME"

[Cthulhu 2020]

So basically what the majority of the US already knew. Trump is a conman and you can't believe anything a conman says. He's been a conman since they 80s and before. How stupid are the people that convinced themselves "Yeah but he's not lying to ME"

After Trump initially announced his candidacy, a documentary called "Trump, what's the deal?" surfaced. It was finished in 1991 but Trump threatened to sue whatever station aired it and whatever company distributed it. Lcukily, they'd already made several copies and they were distributed quietly.

It follows Trump's escapades through the 70's and 80's, and the Trump we see back then is the exact same Trump we are seeing now. An unhinged child with a fragile ego. A pathological liar. A malignant narcissist. A conman who hooks the biggest suckers into believing him. A man who hasn't paid back a single loan he's ever taken out.

The fact that he's barely added any value to his overall net worth over the last 4 decades - while never paying back a single loan, indicates just what a poor businessman he is. His entire fortune is BASED in borrowing money and not paying it back, and hiring workers to build your shit and never paying them a dime.

And when I continuously pointed this out, I was told that Trump was already a changed man (hah) or those who realized that Trump was doing in the campaign the exact same stuff he'd been doing before, said he'd change once he was president.

People almost never change on a fundamental level, and the chances of it happening reach 0 when that person is past 70.

The people who thought POWER and INFLUENCE would change a malignantly narcissistic man FOR THE BETTER are frankly, the biggest idiots on the planet.

[Mormolyce]

Translation: with my faction out of favour Trump will be steered into moderation and hiding his true colours.

I think Bannon is as wrong about that as he is about... well, everything.

And that's saying something, because there are few people on the planet more wrong than Bannon.

"[name], basically: [False statement]"

Is this the new "an anonymous source familiar with the thinking of a relative close to someone who was within a 500 mile radius of Trump told [newspaper]"?

It's called journalism, maybe you've hea...

Oh wait no, of course you haven't :P

- - - Updated - - -

Are all of Trump's ardent fans finding it REALLY hard to defend him now? Or are they all just banned at the moment.

Livnthedream is trying to post a wall of alt right talking points in the General section. A tactic we've seen quite a lot lately, I guess this is the ultimate false equivalence - try to equal the sheer number of threads.

[Video Games]

I am not surprised that a president won't/can't get things done because they don't have THAT much power. As long as it's a smoothish 4-8 years, I don't care who is in the whitehouse that much.

[Mormolyce]

I am not surprised that a president won't/can't get things done because they don't have THAT much power. As long as it's a smoothish 4-8 years, I don't care who is in the whitehouse that much.

The Republican Party has the Senate and House as well, from a legislative perspective that essentially gives them absolute power.

[callipygoustp]

Now I believe in Bannon!
/sarcasm

This guy's a fucking jackass.